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Bob White

Let's play Unit Commissioner

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Mike,

You have the tools for a terrific unit commissioner or trainer. You make some great observations.

 

I especially like your insight about the Eagles who hang around for more. In a troop that focuses on advancement rather than program, Rank becomes the goal. Once the goal is met there is nothing to keep the scout in the program and they leave.

 

I also agree with you on the number of assistants. The only time you have too many is when you outnumber the youth. My experience has been that more often than not, lots of adults and only a few scouts is usually a camping club for adults, where they all dress up as scouts and take the boys camping. The lack of advancement would support that concern.

 

As far as too good to be true, I cannot agree. Having been a volunteer in multiple councils Troop B is about a third of troops I have seen.

 

Good Input Mike!

 

Bob White

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I'm sure anyone who has spent any amount of time in commissioner service has seen units such as these. I would bet over the years DSteele has seen dozens of units such as these.

 

It is even possible for these to be the same unit at different times in its history.

 

The question is what makes the difference. What keeps a unit from becoming Troop A or enables it to be Troop B.

 

What is Troop A lacking? It's not boys, they had the boys and lost them. It's not trained leadership, their SM and at least two assistants were Wood Badge trained, It's not lack of adult support, they have twice as many adults as they have scouts.

 

So what is the problem?

 

 

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Thanks for the kind words, Bob White!

I can see that in my future, perhaps. Serving as an Asst SM in two different troops today is good training - challenging to switch gears to the nuances of two different situations and I sometimes feel like I'm a Jr. Asst UC as I try to gently guide/influence. But with a third son starting out in Cubs, I'd prefer to stay in the trenches.

 

I'll defer to your expertise in the "too good to be true" tally. My local observation isn't that generous, but is limited.

 

Now for the latest - what makes the difference between A & B?

I'll chime in with the Choir Director on this one -- use of the Methods of Scouting is likely key. Troop B is running on all 8 cylinders (Methods) and Troop A is missing at least a few. Just like an engine, performance will suffer and you could end up with complete failure of the powerplant that moves the vehicle forward. (Sorry for mixing metaphors - couldn't resist.)(This message has been edited by Mike F)

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"The question is what makes the difference. What keeps a unit from becoming Troop A or enables it to be Troop B."

 

I'll bite.

 

Naturally, any real life scenerio is much more complex than this and would have more complex problems and solutions. However, (as I think most of us figured out, so I'm probably just stating the obvious) the answer lies in the first sentence of description for both units.

 

Troop A does not use First Class emphasis or New Scout Patrol

 

Troop B uses First Class Emphasis and New Scout Patrols

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"The question is what makes the difference. What keeps a unit from becoming Troop A or enables it to be Troop B."

 

I'll bite.

 

Naturally, any real life scenerio is much more complex than this and would have more complex problems and solutions. However, (as I think most of us figured out, so I'm probably just stating the obvious) the answer lies in the first sentence of description for both units.

 

Troop A does not use First Class emphasis or New Scout Patrol

 

Troop B uses First Class Emphasis and New Scout Patrols

 

As Bob White might say, "It's the program, Stupid!"

(This message has been edited by Zahnada)

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"I'm sure anyone who has spent any amount of time in commissioner service has seen units such as these."

 

Since you cannot cite specific examples, by your own rules of discussion, this whole thread is irrelevant.

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To the boys driven from scouting and those who expect their troop to keep the promise of scouting this is a very relevant thread. Those who see themselves in Troop A may wish they could make it irrelevant.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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Ah, the old Bob White change the rules as you go ploy. If anyone who disagrees with you poses a "what if," you snivel that the example isn't valid because we can't prove that such an instance occurred. However, now that you want to pose the hypothetical situations, you whine that they are relevant.

 

 

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I never said these troops were hypothetical, I said they were not unique. You incorrectly assumed they were hypothetical.

 

 

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Ah, Bob White, changing the rules as you run away.

 

"I'm sure anyone who has spent any amount of time in commissioner service has seen units such as these."

 

No specific unit, gotta be hypothetical. Sorry, your discussion is irrelevant. Pehaps when you can provide us with real world examples, you can try to play again.

 

 

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Im not sure why you want to change the topic of the thread. If you insist on attacking me personally please consider starting a separate thread on that topic.

 

You asked Bob, do you know of actual units that are in these situations?

And I replied that anyone who has been in commissioning for any length of time knew several units in these situations.

 

I have not run anywhere. I am right here. I answered your question directly. If you now want to ask a different question, such as, if these are actual situations, the answer is yes, but as I said they are not unique. Units that fit these descriptions are in every council, and occur in all BSA program levels.

 

We all know it. The question is, how does a unit get in this shape and what is the solution. What is not in question is your personal opinion of me. So I see no reason to change the thread to that topic.

 

I invite posters to continue discussing the Troops A and B.

 

Bob White

 

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What happened to the membership in Troop A? Since you seem to know, why don't you tell us? Troop B has a massive commmittee! IS that needed?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

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So, since they aren't a specific unit, it is a made up situation. Still looks hypothetical from this part of the bleachers.

 

" If you insist on attacking me personally please consider starting a separate thread on that topic."

 

I once started a thread about you which prompted you to run crying to your special friend and then you swore to never return. We saw how long it took you to return.

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Good questions Ed,

we don't know. What we do know is that of all the scouts who have joined Troop A in the last three years only three remain, and we know that only one has earned a rank and he is a Tenderfood after a year.

 

if Advancement hasppens when you particpate in a scouting program the enither these three have not articipated much in two years, OR there is not much of a program to participate in. Can you think of a third option?

 

Either way this is, as others have pointed out a unit In Danger. This troop needs only to lose 3 scouts and they will bo longer be a scout units. If they can lose more than 7 in 18 months, how long will it take them to lose 3 more?

 

Troop B is by no means a massive committee.

It's a full committee, I grant you. But it shares the workload and keeps one person from having to do it all.

 

1 Committee Chair

2,3,4 Advancement committee

4,5, Fundraising

6, Treasurer

7, secretary

8, Outdoor coordinator

9, Equipment coordinator

10, Webelos Resource coordinator

11, Charter rep

12, Chaplain

13, Trainer

 

Whether or not it is needed is not the question, look at the results it brings to the scouts.

 

Troop A's committee size is not a primary concern. The ability to retain membership and deliver a quality program is.

 

So why does a troop have difficulty recruiting youth? population can play a role but Troop A is in a well populated area. Leadership plays a role, but Troop A is swarming with trained leaders. So what is the problem and what might change its current course.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

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