Catbird 10 Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Umm....I wasn't ranting and either I slipped into the Twilight Zone or I didn't say anything near what you thought I said Wheeler. I pity your mom, though. Catbird Link to post Share on other sites
mk9750 11 Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Wheeler, Congratulations on keeping your post so short! I know I struggle with that myself, so I know how hard it can be. Just out of curiosity, Have you ever been told by a female librarian (I know that's stereotypical) to "shussshh!"? What did that do to your sense of manhood? Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Hunt 11 Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I want to thank Rooster for demonstrating that a Scout is Helpful by making a cogent statement of what I think Wheeler is trying to say: that there are differences between boys and girls that make it beneficial for boys to be mentored by men rather than women. This is certainly a point worth discussing--and Rooster also does a good job of pointing out that it has nothing to do with the dedication of women leaders. Do I agree with the conclusion? To an extent, I do. I think it does help boys to have positive male role models. I think that can be adequately provided, however, in a troop with both male and female leaders. I'm still mulling over whether male bonding is also important and beneficial, however--I certainly see it happening in my son's troop in a way that I don't think it would if the troop were entirely co-ed. Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 My mom called me a "Male Chauvinist Pig" all the time. I was quite proud of the title. I was also completely obedient to my Mom. She ran the whole house and had my Dad under her thumb. She was an ardent feminist. I grew up in an ardent Democratic house. My Dad did her bidding at all times because if not divorce was there. So in order to "keep it together" my dad compromised. At 16, my mom decided to send me to get a perm. I protested. I still went under great protest, I ended up as the laughing stock of the school yard. I also see this in my friend's son here in town. His wife is an ardent feminist.Had him color his hair also. Women turn men into their dolls. This boy is now destroyed. In order to buy his friendship, she has bought him every video game and toy. Does he know what it means to be a man? The son of the Greek Orthodox priest here is a wimp. He is a terrible sight to look at. The mother is strong-willed and mothering. The son is destroyed as a man. Sit and observe in any church pew, the effeminate look and character of young men. All primitive cultures with their knack of acuteness and observation techniques as hunters saw this in their own sons. That is why the prevalence of puberty rituals across the globe. Women are dangerous to men. Femine modality is not masculine modality. Feminine seek for safety and security. Masculine modality is be left alone. To be free. The Love of ritual and the love of roaming is natural in a man. Not a woman. Look at British culture with all the ritual and traditions, the changing of the guard, and all that, That was a sign of a very masculine culture. Now, it is not so masculine anymore. 1860 EMERSON Cond. Life (1861) 121, Ifind the religions of menunmanly and effeminating. That is why Leon Podles titles his book, "The Church Impotent, The feminization of Christianity" whereas we are witnessing the "feminization" of the Boy Scouts.(This message has been edited by WHEELER) Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Furthermore, my mom would sign a form that prevented me from going to the rifle range everyyear I went to Boy Scout Camp at Pico Blanco. Feminists hate rifles and guns. One can see their influence in the modern handbook. There is not one picture or word of gun or rifle in the modern handbook. Who is directing our culture? Men or Women? Whose directing the Boy Scouts? Manly culture of Feminist culture?? I read that 50% of the youth in the venturing programs are female!!!! How many boys in the Girl Scouts?????? CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW MANY BOYS IN THE GIRL SCOUTS???? How come this discrepancy? Can anyone tell me why there are no boys in the Girl Scouts but women in the Boy Scouts??? Do they NOT HAVE THEIR own organization????? Why is it necessary for them to be in the Boy Scouts when there is the Girl Scouts????? Link to post Share on other sites
scoutmom 10 Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 I can not speak for anyone other than myself. I am involved in the Boy Scouts because I have one child, a son, who wants to be a Boy Scout. As a parent, I intend to support him and do everyting I can to support his activities. I do not have a daughter, and I was not a Girl Scout when I was younger, so I am not really motivated to join the Girl Scouts. My brother has one child, a daughter, and although she is not a Girl Scout, he participates in all of her activities. I am sure if she had joined the Girl Scouts, he would have been a very good Leader, as he was a Boy Scout himself. He takes a lot of pleasure in helping my son with some of his advancements whenever he gets the chance. The problem is, he has his own family and demands on his time, so he can not be there all the time when my son has a Scouting activity or an advancement he needs help with. I'm not going to ignore my childs motivation or desire to work on advancement or attend Troop activities just because I am a single Mom. That makes me a good parent, not a threat to my son's manhood. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I'm sorry folks, much like some people who flock to the scene of an accident, I know I should look away, but I find myself compelled to respond. This is just a silly wild guess on my part, but I would Venture to say that there are no "Boys" in the Girl Scouts. Now, I also know there are no "Girls" in the Boy Scout program. Now, there are Girls, cooties and all in the Venturing and Learning for Life Programs, but they are not Boy Scouts. Why does the BSA allow females in their programs? Mainly, I would say, and this is just another silly wild guess on my part because the market is there. When you live in an open and free society, sometimes referred to as a capitalistic system, organizations tend to go where the business is. Older youth, both male and female presented a market with needs and desires unfulfilled by the exisiting organizaitons. BSA came up with a program to meet the market desires. So now rather than limiting themselves to only 50 percent of the population, BSA is open to everyone (OK NJ and merlyn not "everyone") well more than just a single segment of the population. I can't think of anything more capitalistic than the BSA forming Venturing. Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 It is interesting to see that "Business" modality creep into philosophy. Philosophy is about wisdom and it is a science. "To capture a market" this is business sense but does not make philosophical sense. Philosophy is about principles and not "market share". Neither Socrates nor Aristotle had any room for business people because they would sell their own soul for profit. Manly culture is a culture of principles. Principles are things not compromised by anybody. Socrates: And so they grow richer and richer, and the mre they think of making a fortune the less they think of virtue; for when riches and virtue are placed together in the scales of the balance, the one always rises as the other falls. Reply: True. Socrates: And in proportion as riches and rich men are honoured in the State, virtue and the virtuous are dishonored. Reply: Clearly. Socrates: And what is honoured is cultivated, and that which has no honour is neglected. Can it be supposed that the Boy Scouts have sold out their boys for filthy lucre? Here they tout moral and ethical values and principles of leadership. Leadership requires COURAGE. And there is no courage in the face of feminism. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Well, at least the BSA is now a Capitalistic Pig selling its soul for the almighty dollar. I thought it was a socialist tool of the feminists seeking to engineer a change in values. It cant be both, can it? BTW, speaking of guns and rifles, I know we were, I have just lost tract is all. If I am such a danger and push a feminist agenda, can you explain why my Eagle Scout son is the Co Captiain of his High School Rifle team? The other co captain is another Eagle Scout from the same troop and last year at summer camp my son was the assistant range master and BTW, his boss, the Range Master was a woman, and you know what, we all lived Link to post Share on other sites
firstpusk 10 Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Now it has all become clear. He is opposed to business, obsessed with philosophy, believes that principles should not be compromised and is opposed to the boy scout program. Sounds like a communist to me. Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Oh-my, my furious philofeminists. Truth only exists in its purity. Can't parley peace with the Devil with half a loave. Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Wheeler ranted and rightly so, "I read that 50% of the youth in the venturing programs are female!!!! How many boys in the Girl Scouts?????? CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW MANY BOYS IN THE GIRL SCOUTS???? "How come this discrepancy? Can anyone tell me why there are no boys in the Girl Scouts but women in the Boy Scouts???" Way back in the late 60s' girls realized that guys were having loads of fun in Exploring. A girl tried to join a post, was denied and a lawsuit resulted. BSA eventually caved in a admitted girls to Exploring. Why did girls want to join Exploring when they had Girl Scouts and Campfire Girls to join? Probably because BSA's programs were more fun and much more interesting. Around the same time, there was a legal action launched against Campfire Girls because a boy actually did want to join. His mother was a leader, his four sisters were in Campfire Girls and he wanted to be with them. Men are admitted to GSUSA as leaders but since we men are evil creatures, we cannot run a troop by ourselves and men on camping excursions must sleep in the next county. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Why arent there boys in the Girl Scouts while BSA has girl members in some of its programs? Let me try this again, The answer is easy, the BSA is the youth organization, some may even say movement, to be in, the boys know it, the girls know it, and the BSA and Girl Scouts all know it. The BSA programs are known nation wide as the best going. Now, we in the BSA could say we were going to cater only to boys, and with hold our programs from the other segment of our nation's youth who benefit from our leadership and charactor development but that wouldn't be very scout like. I'd rather be in the program that the youth are suing to join, than to be in one that the target market is slowly slipping away. Link to post Share on other sites
Proud Eagle 13 Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Huh. Last time I looked at this thread it wasn't eve half this lenght, if I remember correctly. I would be glad to get into a mature discussion about the proper role for men and women in the BSA. I would be glad to discuss ways that I think the abilities of various female leaders could be used in more productive ways than is currently the case. I would be glad to discuss the ways that women do sometimes cause problems under certain conditions. I would also be glad to discuss the fact that many men do not contribute as much as they should, forcing others to make up for this. However, it doesn't look like this is the place for that discussion. It appears to me that the conent of this thread could be reduced to: women are evil no they aren't yes they are men are just as evil no they aren't yes they are no they aren't who is it you are saying isn't evil? women men evil good yes no Does that about sum up the history of this thread? If I am incorrect, please correct the record. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I think you have the spirit there Proud Eagle, the definitive rant would be as follows: WOMAN: Anything you can do I can do better ..... .I can do anything better than you WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can, yes, I can WHEELER: Anything you can be I can be greater ......Sooner or later I'm greater than you WOMAN: No, you're not WHEELER: Yes, I am WOMAN: No, you're not WHEELER: Yes, I am WOMAN: No, you're not WHEELER: Yes, I am, yes I am WHEELER: I can shoot a partridge with a single cartridge WOMAN: I can get a sparrow with a bow and arrow WHEELER: I can live on bread and cheese WOMAN: And only on that? WHEELER: Yes WOMAN: So can a rat WHEELER: Any note you can reach I can go higher WOMAN: I can sing anything higher than you WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WOMAN: Anything you can buy I can buy cheaper ......I can buy anything cheaper than you WHEELER: Fifty cents WOMAN: Forty cents WHEELER: Thirty cents WOMAN: Twenty cents WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can, yes, I can WHEELER: Anything you can say I can say softer WOMAN: I can say anything softer than you WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can, yes, I can WHEELER: I can drink my liquor faster than a flicker WOMAN: I can do it quicker and get even sicker WHEELER: I can open any safe WOMAN: Without being caught? WHEELER: Sure WOMAN: That's what I thought (you crook) WHEELER: Any note you can hold I can hold longer WOMAN: I can hold any note longer than you WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can, yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't - yes, you can WOMAN: Anything you can wear I can wear better ......In what you wear I'd look better than you WHEELER: In my coat WOMAN: In your vest WHEELER: In my shoes WOMAN: In your hat WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can, yes, I can WHEELER: Anything you can say I can say faster WOMAN: I can say anything faster than you WHEELER: Noyoucan't WOMAN: YesIcan WHEELER: Noyoucan't WOMAN: YesIcan WHEELER: Noyoucan't WOMAN: YesIcan WHEELER: Noyoucan't WOMAN: YesIcan WHEELER: I can jump a hurdle WOMAN: I can wear a girdle WHEELER: I can knit a sweater WOMAN: I can fill it better WHEELER: I can do most anything WOMAN: Can you bake a pie? WHEELER: No WOMAN: Neither can I WHEELER: Anything you can sing I can sing sweeter WOMAN: I can sing anything sweeter than you WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Oh, yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can WHEELER: No, you can't, can't, can't WOMAN: Yes, I can, can, can, can WHEELER: No, you can't WOMAN: Yes, I can Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts