CharityAK 11 Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Hi Laura I can totally sympathize with your frustration. I am the Advancement Chair for our troop. Our service center/HQ is an hour away, one way. I am a busy person - I homeschool my kids, work as a free-lance writer, am a pianist/vocalist for our church, am also our troop's treasurer, practice karate 4x a week and volunteer for several other agencies besides BSA. And still....I am able to get the boys their advancements and badges in a prompt manner. There is no excuse whatsoever for this volunteer's poor performance. Our district rep. told me something once that really stuck with me. He said that he usually looked for busy, highly successful people to recruit as volunteers. This seems to fly in the face of logic. A very busy Doctor or lawyer doesn't have time for one more thing on their plate, right? Wrong. A very busy, successful person is obviously there because they've learned to manage their time and deliver the goods. I would imagine that your Adv. Chair struggles with excellence in more areas than simply BSA, right? If there isn't an appropriate person currently within your troop, there is no reason you can't recruit outside your troop. I'd suggest looking for someone in your community who has a passion for youth and a passion for excellence. A high achiever. They usually make the best Advancement Chairs. I'd approach them asking them to consider volunteering with your troop and then get them the appropriate paperwork to get signed on as an adult leader. It's not fair to the boys to not receive reinforcement for their work. If this continues, it's possible they will lose motivation. Cut the guy loose and find someone who's already proved themselves in their daily life. Charity Link to post Share on other sites
CharityAK 11 Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Laura - You stated that you have a stock of badges on hand. Is that the norm for all you other folks? Our district office is the only place where I can buy badges locally and they will not let me buy anything unless I show a blue card. I'd love to have a little inventory as I have to drive an hour one-way everytime I want a badge, patch, certificate, etc. Charity Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Many units stock up on badges -- mostly to have "insurance" in case a boy's award is forgotten, under-reported, etc. While that is a noble goal, the practice is bad and is against BSA policies for several reasons. One reason is that the advancement forms turned in when the badges are picked up become part of the pack/troop/crew's records on file in the council office. The unit should have it's own file, but advancement chairman can misplace records, misrecord records, die, move away, etc. etc. Not that bad things can't happen to council records, but if the council isn't given good records, research can not be done in later years. Another reason (although more unlikely, but a real example non-the-less.) We had a First Class Scout at one of the camps I worked as Assistant Camp Director. He was very small for his age, but very endearing and did handstands at flag ceremonies, (on request of the staff) etc. I served an inner-city district at the time. When I went to do a boy talk a local elementary school, the principal gave me 10 minutes with each grade. When I got to the third graders, I asked, "Are any of you already in Cub Scouts?" A little kid raised his hand and smiled. Something rang a bell, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I said, "Do you know the Cub Scout Promise?" He said, "Yes." I asked him to come up and lead it and he did. He said, "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country . . . " It was the same "First Class Scout" from summer camp. What happened was that we had started a new pack at an innner city church that had an established Boy Scout troop. When the pack folded a short time later, the Scoutmaster just fudged the birthdates, registered the 3 active Cub Scouts as Boy Scouts and life went on. For advancement, he simply awarded stock-piled badges. If that enterprising young man had gone for Eagle Scout at the age of 10 . . . I find it difficult to blame the Scoutmaster -- his idea was that it was better to provide some Scouting, even if ahead of the age requirements -- than to provide none at all. However, there are risks he was taking unknowingly that should not have been taken. Sorry. I didn't mean this to sound like a rant. It isn't. But there are reasons for policies and if you have questions about those reasons, please feel free to ask and keep asking until the answers make sense. DS Link to post Share on other sites
CharityAK 11 Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Not a rant...appreciate the response. I just wondered if I had missed something because I've heard other people refer to stocking badges quite often. Thought maybe our district council was the exception... I can understanding the reasoning and do not resent it. Charity Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 We had the local Astronomy club come in to do Astronomy MB with our troop. We registered them as counsellors, and one of them requested a merit badge to add to their club scrapbook. A reasonable request, right? The council shop refused to sell me one because it wasn't on an advancement report. I was embarrassed to have to tell them "no" after all of the hours they had donated to scouting. Rules are rules, but gimme a break! Link to post Share on other sites
NWScouter 9 Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Most council offices will sell badges as repleacments or for a second uniform. Some Troops have extra badges when scouts go to camp aand earn them and then don't show up for another scout meeting or court of honor to recieve them. This is the way that troop get a back stock of badges. Also some badges are not on the advancement sheets, such as segments. I know I just would have a bunch of Scout Sunday segments bought and the meeting after Scout week I would ask the Scouts who participated in a Scout Sunday activity to come forward. Dave Steele, Now as district commisioner I am conserned about memebership numbers. Years ago in our scout shop the staff would check each advancement report to see if all boy were registered before selling awards. Now with the time it takes to get that information on the scoutnet and in a readable fashion, they don't have time. So I know that lots of Cubs get their Bobcat badge before the membership paperwork gets in. Do you know what the national is doing to make scoutnet more user friendly? Link to post Share on other sites
Laurie 10 Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 You know, we had the majority of boys in our pack earn not only Bobcat, but all the ranks this past year WITHOUT their name appearing on our roster. One had received his Bobcat and Webelos, but he was listed as separated from the pack. I did not realize that registration was checked prior to advancements being issued, but it did not hold up any of our boys this past year. I'm puzzled. Link to post Share on other sites
LauraT7 13 Posted August 30, 2003 Author Share Posted August 30, 2003 Well, here's the whole story - As I said, i was not at the COH, as my back was so bad i was snapping at everyone - I just wanted to be with my chiro and my ice pack. i guess I'm a little testy' when my back hurts... by the time the CC called me back, I had seen my Chiropracter & cooled my jets some.... It seems that the new ADV Coord. thought that by sending in the advancement records, that the advancement paperwork also ordered the badges. But there was a separate form for ordering badges that he did not send in. when he called to check on status of our 'order' because he hadn't received the badges, he found out his error - too late to get them in time for the COH. Part of this is because he doesn't want to have the old ADV coord looking over his shoulder - he's kind of defensive, wants to control things kind of personality, and wants to do things HIS way - even if someone else has a good method to share. (understandable in a way, but our prior Adv C is a great, low-key guy. He would be extreemely helpful, not over bearing, a team player and in every way, the kind of adult we all wish we had whole troops of. he would have walked through all this stuff with the new guy, if he had been allowed to. I know he offered.) Anyway, so he goofed on getting a form in on time and cut the wire too close in the first place, or he would have had time to correct the mistake. he did apologize to all the scouts and parents at the COH for his mistake. since i wasn't there, and my son is not good at repeating details - i didn't hear about that part. the badges should all be in by our next Monday meeting, Sept 9. _________________ as for the 'stockpile' of badges - I didn't mean to give the impression that we had a large stockpile - our troop has been around, in the same location and charter org for almost 90 years. We have a little of EVERYTHING, somewhere! LOL! I'm sure the few badges we have IN the adv box are from boys that dropped out or things that were mis-ordered, etc. We certainly don't have lots of badge on hand - just a handful. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Let me address th scout shop not selling an astronomy badge without it being on an advancement report -- they should have sold it. Sometimes hourly staff get a bit overzealous in enforcing rules. If something should happen along those lines where you are, please call your district executive and explain to them what you're doing. The De will get you the patch. I see nothing wrong with a counselor having in his/her posession the badge as a momento. As to checking advancement records vs. registration, this should be done. It isn't usually done at check-out -- the Scout Shop staff are usually too busy for that. In some councils, the registrar does it and gives the DE a "heads up" when there's an unregistered Scout receiving a badge. Sometimes the DE has to check the advancement records themselves. The follow-up often takes longer than it should, but it does happen. At least it happens in the councils I have served and the one I currently serve. There is no need to be concerned about my membership numbers -- I view those as a matter of personal integrity. I'll assume that NWScouter didn't intend to question my integrity and won't take offense. Scoutnet isn't the problem with checking advancement in the Scout Shop -- it's just a bit too time consuming to do when there are customers in line. Also, Scout Shops are often not linked to Scoutnet, but to national's retail system that tracks inventory and not registration. DS Link to post Share on other sites
NWScouter 9 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I am sorry if you took my comment about membership as anything about integrity. As a District Commissioner I get involved in recruiting and retaining youth member through my staff supporting the units and the district advancement committee. I am working for the district to qualifying for quality district and a growth in membership is a must as one of the goals. I find that the fall Cub recruitment drives paperwork to be most frustrating. Some Packs hold on the applications till they turn in their recharter late in the year. Giving us only soft numbers and hope to work with, I swear that these have given some of our Des ulcers. I have yet to find a way to get everyone to turn the apps in right after the roundup nights. I think Ill start a new topic on this. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 NWScouter -- I didn't think you were questioning my integrity. I don't jump to those kinds of conclusions. In fact, I'm glad you're doing your duty as a District Commissioner and are watching over quality standards. I agree with you on the need for packs to get their paperwork in on a timely basis and will help out if I can in your new thread. DS Link to post Share on other sites
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