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John-in-KC

Nemat Hike or Brotherhood Interview???

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I earned my Brotherhood waaaay back in 1971. For many years I had the little "Brotherhood Questionaire" booklet published by National. I've also seen more recently the same questions wiht the MGM Indian on a single 8 1/2 x 11.

 

Way back in 2003, our officers came back from NOAC (as I recall, might have been some other training workshop) and told us old farts the Brotherhood Interview was DEAD. We were to use the Nemat Hike.

 

The reason I asked is in the other thread, the poster commented about Brotherhood Interviews. I thought they were all gone throughout the Order. So.... We've been using the hike for a while now. What are your Lodges using?

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While I've not been on my lodge's Nimat Hike, nor served as a Nimat adviser, I've been told that it is a hike that consists of a series of stops where there is a chance to reflect on your scouting career and how you live the Scout Oath and Law, especially the 'duty to others" portions. It's done with small groups, and everythign I've heard has been positive.

 

If I wasn't busy with the singers, I would love to go along the hike or serve as an nimat adviser.

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That is the basic concept. Ours varies a bit year to year, but the youth have been getting more insightful questions as we go.

 

Stop 1: We say the Obligation, and reflect on its/Scout Oath/Scout Law commitments.

 

Stop 2: We reflect on Cheerful Service.

 

Stop 3: We reflect on the greater community beyond Troops.

 

Stop 4: SANITY CHECK. We make sure everyone can do the Handshake, and that they know the Admonition.

 

What I'm wondering is are there still Lodges doing stump-the-chump Interviews?

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In my Lodge we first hold a Brotherhood class. Usually in the afternoon before the ceremony the candidates gather to review the basics of membership and the requirements of attaining Brotherhood membership. To help in the review we use a worksheet (most likely similar to the "Brotherhood Questionaire.") We also remind them what all needs to be in their letter if they have not yet written it. Around 8 that night we gather the candidates, collect any remaining letters and fees, and head out on the Nimat hike.

 

At our first stop we discuss and reflect upon those who have influenced and inspired us in both scouting and life in general.

 

At the next stop we share examples and reflect upon how we have lived the Obligation and the Scout Oath/Law in our daily lives since the Ordeal.

 

Then we progress to a third stop where we put the 2 concepts together and reflect on how we can be a positive influence and lead others in the Lodge, our units, and life in general.

 

We then have a short walk to the final stop, where they are given Spirit of the Arrow #8 and are left with the torchbearers to await the ceremony.

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My lodge still does a variant of the B-hood Interview. To my knowledge, National never delivered an edict, like they did on different patches for the different levels. Please, if they did send an Operations Update about it, let me know.

 

We hold a Brotherhood workshop, either during the Ordeal or on another day. The first part of the workshop is, unfortunately, a classroom type experience. We have discussions about the symbolism and meaning within the Ordeal, review the items to be memorized, and do that general stuff. The second part includes breaking up into groups of about four. One of the Arrowmen running the workshop is paired with each group, and they cover the memorization items again, making sure everyone knows them. We find the groups work well, because there are others there to help then if they stumble. We do not do a one-on-one test. John, the interview that we do is not a pass or fail situation, and is not intended to be a stump-the-chump type game. If they still have an issue with one bit of the Obligation, we will keep working on it, but we will not deny them B-hood membership. The candidates then write their letters. On the workshops that are held during non-Ordeal weekends, we also include a short walk, where an experienced Arrowman talks with the candidate about being active and their overall impressions of the Order. The candidates are then told where and when to meet to head to the ceremony.

 

This process works well for us. Although I'm not the biggest fan of the sample hike I read about in the Guide to Inductions (I think that's where I found it) I do like the idea of stopping and reflecting on the way to the ceremony, and might have to suggest that for next time.

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Should we be discussing this in the protected OA forum? I realize we are not getting all that detailed, but still.....we are discussing elements of Brotherhood that would be more effective if they were still a mystery to the participant.

 

That being said, we do the Brotherhood Enrichment and later the Brotherhood Hike on the way to the Brotherhood Ceremony.

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This does seem to be getting very close to guarded ceremonial material.There are a lot less sensitive things that have been placed in protected area.

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Another concern about this thread and the protected area is that the password for protected area is only good for screening members and does not protect from revealing Brotherhood details from those who have not experienced the conversion to Brotherhood.

 

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Guarded? What a crock of excrement.

 

A few years back, if you had any idea at all the OA Brotherhood existed, you could google "Brotherhood questionaire" and get 15-20 hits from Lodges that had uploaded the bin item as a pdf. In fact, I was still able to get a couple questionaires a few minutes ago.

 

Meanwhile, the Brotherhood Hike is prescribed in Chapter 7 of the Guide to Inductions, and its format is documented in Appendix 15.

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I'm new to this venue and am a bit confused about how the private area and public area is used.I see lots of stuff in guarded area that is just general information.

Granted you can find anything you want if you make the effort to look for it.My impression from many of the entries is that an effort was being made to not broadcast information that would contradict the attempts to maintain the sequence of ceremony.

How many ordeal members do you know who would even know to look in the Guide to Inductions.

I still think that the mystery of the next step is a cherished experience to some.

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I'm 52 now.

 

When I was 13, George I was curious! ;)

 

Even now, I love data-mining. When I think of many young people I know, they like data-mining too.

 

 

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I'm a couple of weeks from 60 and I to am still curious.More power to the young man who through his efforts finds what may lie in the future.

I'm not as big of a detail nitpicker as some.I'm usually drawn to the spirit of the issue.

Principles of induction Nine."no symbol or symbolic procedure should be mentioned or used unless and until it is called for in authorized ceremonies"

I know there are no hard set rules but I interpret the spirit of this as being I should not be describing Brotherhood procedures to general audience.

My 25yr. old son has performed every part in all of the ceremonies from pre-ordeal through Vigil and is now Ceremonies Adviser for his Chapter and I know he shares this belief.Maybe some us old farts feel that the secrecy is a joke but I guarantee that very few dedicated Ceremonalists would appreciate such a cavalier approach.As chapter Adviser I've been to quite a few ceremonies and I can see that there is still some sense of wonder experienced by at least some participants.

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:)

 

Have you taken the latest edition of the online YP program yet?

 

Mom and Dad, non-Scouters, want to see their sons' Ordeal. Chapter Adviser says "it's supposed to be for the kids."

 

National Safety folks make a big too-doo about that being the wrong answer, and that Mom and Dad are to be welcomed... that there are no secret societies in Scouting.

 

Gotta love contradicting guidance.

 

Maybe the Order really isn't what it used to be...

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Yes I'm current on YP and it's always been in our Lodge procedures to not deny non member adult from attending son's ordeal.We talk to them and explain the desire to maintain a sense of mystery that their presence

may lessen.We reassure them that ceremony does not violate guide to safe scouting and that we would prefer that they trust that.Next if we have to we would show them what the ordeal entails if they still insist we allow their presence.

Luckily we have never had to let them attend.All have been satisfied

with our request that they help preserve the sense of mystery.

 

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