UNORTHODOX FUNDRAISING?

[dan 10]

Have you purchased popcorn from walmart, kmart or venture and compared it with Trails end popcorn?

I thought that all popcorn was equal until I did this. After eating the trail end products, I want nothing to do with the cheap stuff!

It is a little overpriced, but you are just not buying the popcorn! You are helping another boy become a scout!

[Bob White 20]

Bob White, once again you misrepresent my post in order to prove your point.

 

Powerful words Zahnada, but grossly misdirected. My posts in this thread responded first to kwc57, then to nldscout, then Eagle74. So until now I have not commented on a post from you in this thread.

 

Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Zahnada 11]

Bob White,

 

In that case I owe you an appology. It does add an ironical twist that I became guilty of the act that I charged you with. I am sorry.

[Eagle74 10]

BW, I don't have a *problem* with it. I don't see anything wrong with it. The comment was partially tongue-in-cheek. We have used popcorn sales to fund the entire Cub Pack and Troop programs for years. I fully agree it is an excellent product.

 

The "like quality or merchandise" is not in the value of the popcorn; it's in the value of the program that your "donation" funds.

 

The simple fact is that you pay more for the product because there is a built-in additional mark-up - a donation - over and above the product suppliers profit margin, for funding of BSA and local unit activities. The cost of the popcorn is in reality the cost of the product (with profit margin for the supplier) + a donation to BSA + a donation to local unit. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Is there anything secretive or veiled? No. I would venture that everyone buying the popcorn (Girl Scout cookies, etc) already knows that and not unless you imply or think that you are giving/getting true value for the cost of the product.

 

And no, I haven't bought any bottled water lately - or ever - for the very reason that you mention. And yes, I am aware of the profit margin on furniture - it's the same or more for automotive parts. Difference is I can buy furniture at sale or clearance prices, but when my car needs a part I can't wait.

 

I digress. We have had an ongoing discussion at work about the plethora of fundraising activities we are all involved with directly or indirectly. Between school, scouts, sports, church, etc., etc., etc., it is unbelievable how much time and effort is spent on raising money for these organizations. We came up with a solution. Rather than you buying $30 worth of stuff from me and me in turn buying $30 worth of stuff from you - and this occurs many times over with many other people, lets say $300 per year worth of stuff per person - let's just all quit trading $ and give it directly to the organization we're raising money for. Heck, let's even sign a contract so everyone is bound to actually donating the $ each year. No fuss, no muss, a lot less work, no begging or cajoling, no guilty feelings.

[sctmom 11]

I don't do ball team fund raisers, I pay the extra to buy my way out. Selling candy bars has nothing to do with playing baseball. I also don't do the school fundraisers.

 

Selling popcorn is supposed to teach boys some responsibility about paying their own way. Same with Girl Scout cookies. The kids are supposed to do some of the work. At least sort the product and write a quick thank you to the co-workers of the parent who bought the stuff.

 

I think we (myself included) do a horrible job of showing the connection between selling the popcorn and paying for activities in Cub/Boy Scouting. I'm sure some units do a better job.

 

Listening to Girl Scouts, they have the girls come up with goals of what they want to do over the next year, how much will it cost and then how many cookies to do that. If they don't make their goal of money, they change their plans. A great learning experience.

 

Also, we just had the shortest FOS presentation this week at our Pack meeting. Short and to the point. People actually listened. Hopefully it was effective. I don't know the results.

 

[LauraT7 13]

The problem I have with most fundraisers that sell items is twofold -

 

first, as someone pointed out, most sales are inspired by friendship, guilt, charity, whatever - but the person buying the item is being solicited, they aren't looking for that item. (IE - I am HOOKED on GS thin mints cookies and will search out a scout to buy them from, because you can't get them in stores at any price)

 

second, for the charity involved, the profit margin on the item is usually not worth the effort expended by the boys or parents that manage it. You could get alot more "bang for the buck" in other ways.

 

however, BSA handicaps scouting fundraising by not allowing us to wear uniforms for any fundraiser OTHER than popcorn. I can understand when it comes to selling physical products or brand names that scouting may not want to be affiliated with. But why on earth do they limit the uniform for things like car washes, bowl-a-thons, etc?

 

Personally, I prefer those sorts of fundraisers - For a Car wash, usually soap is the only "cost", water is donated by the business that sponsors it, rags, hoses & buckets come from the boys and their parents. When someone drives in for a car wash, they REALLY NEED a car wash; they usually get a better job for the cost than they would at an automated wash, and 100% of the money goes directly to the boys who do the work. theirs no "i buy yours, you buy mine", guilt, no begging, just a real straightforward business transaction with good feelings for all, good will for the business and money for the boys.

 

which, then, is the better lesson? Popcorn? or the car wash?

[Bob White 20]

"The simple fact is that you pay more for the product because there is a built-in additional mark-up - a donation - over and above the product suppliers profit margin, for funding of BSA and local unit activities. The cost of the popcorn is in reality the cost of the product (with profit margin for the supplier) + a donation to BSA + a donation to local unit."

 

I think that is a genuine concern with many people Eagle74. But how does that differ from any other products by the time they get to the consumer?

 

As the end user you pay for the cost of the raw material+profit, the cost of manufacturing+profit, the cost of distribution+profit, the cost of retailing+profit. Trails End is manufacturer, the council is the distributor, and the unit is the retailer. Heck a Bic pen that retails for $ .39 only costs Bic about .07.

 

As you say profit is not a bad thing. As far as those who feel you are strong-arming family and friends, an easy solution is.... don't. There are lots of others out there who really enjoy the product and enjoy supporting the program, perhaps sell to them.

 

The main point I wanted to make is that it is important that we give a product or service in return during our fundraising efforts.

 

BW

[scoutldr 732]

I once heard that Trails End is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BSA and that they have no other market. True?

 

The fundraising got so out of hand at my place of employment that the boss put a stop to all of it, regardless of the cause. The parents sell more than the kids do. Again, where's the lesson in that? If it's really about teaching leadership and self-sufficiency, then let's tell the parents to butt out and let the kids do it...or not do it...and then they live with the results. Want to go to camp? Sell popcorn. Don't sell any, then you don't go. Now there's a real lesson in life.

 

But I suspect that won't happen, because it's not about teaching values...it's about the money. That's why Councils push popcorn and don't like to see units do their own thing...because then they don't get their cut. Now before everyone jumps down my throat, I understand the need for Council operating funds...I just wish they wouldn't task the children with that responsibility. Kinda reminds me of the last time I visited Tijuana...and having to run the gantlet of professional beggars, most of whom were under the age of 10.

 

It's a tough dilemma running a non=profit organization. I don't know what the answer is.

[Bob White 20]

Selling popcorn IS about money. How WE teach them to sell, and how WE explain to them why we sell it, will determine if they learn any values or not.

 

BW

[Eamonn 61]

I am by no means an expert on the Trails End Co. But I have bought Trails End popcorn, which was being sold for another charity.

My Wife is involved with a local pack, and they have two or three sales a year, mainly selling frozen Pizza, they file the permit with the council, and no one has ever said a word, or asked for the Council Cut?

We too have asked people not to sell things at work, it was way out of hand, not only people raising money for good causes, but tickets that had price tags as high as $100.00.

I attended our district roundtable last night and came home with six boxes of girl scout cookies (Which I love.) A $4.00 plastic mug, which I really have no need for, and two $2.00 tickets that someone was selling to benifit a local person who fell on the ice and broke her leg. The ticket was being sold by the Elementary School Principle.

Not a cheap night.

Fundraising is hardly ever fun. But you make your choice. When OJ, my son played in the local soccer league, we could sell so many tickets or pay the extra $125.00. We chose to pay.

The same could be said about summer camp.

However, if the Council Cut from the popcorn wasn't there summer camp might cost a lot more?

(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[SamEagle 10]

Trail's End chocolate popcorn, combined with Thin Mint GS cookies, is my all time favorite chocolate fix. I love getting that stuff, and supporting the scouts.

 

On scouts not being able to wear uniforms to fundraising events, such as carwashes - does anybody else see some potential problems here as well? Ever seen a car wash run by teenagers? I'll tell you, some of them come up with very...creative ways of getting people's attention. Like my friend who wore a very short bathing suit, then stood next to the street with a slightly larger sign advertising the car wash. The picture of this made it into the local news, with the caption "Baring All for [Organization Name]. Hilarious as this was, it still seems like that might not exactly be the image BSA wants to project.

[Bob White 20]

SamEagle,

No one has said that you cannot wear your uniform for a car wash (although there is probably more appropriate attire available). A car wash does not support a brand name and it returns a service for the money, so that would qualify to promote as a troop fundraiser.

 

You could not however have a Turtle Wax carwash in uniform or using the scouting name, that would be a misuse of the BSA trademark as you do not have the authority to give scoutings approval to a brand name product or service.

 

Just as you can have a pancake breakfast as a Scouting fundraiser but you could not have a Pillsbury Pancake breakfast.

 

I hope this clarifies things,

 

Bob White

[SR540Beaver 116]

Sctmom,

 

You asked what selling candybars has to do with playing baseball? The same exact thing that selling popcorn has to do with scouting. My son played baseball for 4 years before deciding to take a break and try out some other activities. Having been a team manager, I can tell you that there are a lot of costs involved in even a little league team just like there are in scouts. There are league fees, tournament fees, equipment to buy and replace, uniforms, hopefully a pizza party or cookout or two during the season, etc. Every team at every game is required to have a new game ball to hand to the ump prior to the game starting. Balls are not cheap. Some leagues require that the teams pay the umps at each game. Fundraising for sports is no different than for scouts. You want to play, you have to pay. It gives the boys a lesson in paying their own way and in taking responsibility for their team's well being. It allows them to take some ownership of their chosen activity. It gives them pride in doing a task. Sports can teach a kid many of the same things that scouting can. Team work, leadership, strategy, responsibility, character, good sportsmanship, practicing hard at a task in order to accomplish the task when it counts, discipline, etc. The list goes on. Many kids involved in sports are the same kinds of kids involved in scouting. Some can afford anything at a drop of a hat and others have to raise the funds in order to participate. Don't short change the sports team fundraisers, they are trying to accomplish many of the same goals of scouting, just thru a different method. Both are worthy of donations.

[SagerScout 10]

We just finished the GS cookie sale and I have to say, pushing those cookies is a heap sight easier than selling popcorn. The troops locally don't keep a big % but the council does very well indeed. And even a small percentage times a couple thousand boxes can add up for a hardworking troop. Didn't describe mine this year, but hey, we'll just go cheaper places.

 

It is absolutely true that people seek you out - my former employer from 1999 tracked me down for his Trefoil fix (and that's not even the most popular cookie!)

 

Meanwhile, my son struggles to sell even a minimum quantity of popcorn. We're eating quite a bit of it ourselves. Now, he doesn't have the people skills my daughter does, but still the difference in "sell-ability" of the product is pronounced. However, his troop made a quick 200+ with a car wash. We wear troop T's for those.

 

Julia

 

 

 

[SMT376Richmond KY 10]

Having both my kids in Scouts daughter and son. I can say with a great deal of experience it is far easier for the girls to sell cookies than it is for the boys to sell popcorn. Also, it is a know fact of the universe that the young the child the more sales they have. How can you say no to those cute lil Browinies and Tigers.

Other fundraiser, I've herd of a Troop that ran a car wash behind a dining canopy with walls. The sign outside read topless car wash. When the drivers went in the boys were ready to wash with thier swimming trunks on. I hear the made a bundle as they were quite busy. See sex sells so the GS do fare better. However, my wife's/daughters troop makes far less % of sale than the boys make.