Creating a Training Culture?

[Eagle92 110]

I sure hope that if a new app comes along, it doesn't make you list all of one's training, as for some of us old fogeys the app will need to be VERY long. I know I got a copy of my SCOUTNET records with all the trainings I've gotten, and it's 2 pages long AND still missing a few training I've taken.

[HICO_Eagle 93]

I hate to say this but I really think they need to get rid of the professional educators afflicting National. Heck, at this point, I'd be willing to get rid of all of National and rebuild it from the ground up with a Back-to-Basics approach. Most of what they produce is pap; I got nothing useful at all from the TDC last spring, very little from SMF years ago -- and the funny thing is that I love learning. The more mandatory they make courses -- especially ones I consider a waste of my time like IOLS -- the more resistant I will be toward taking them.

[Eagle92 110]

HICO,

To a point I agree with you. I agree with getting rid of some of the educators. I also agree with getting back to basics. And I also agree that I didn't learn much at SMF back in the day as I was active with my troop, had an extensive outdoors background, and had gone through BA22, the youth equivalent of WB at the time. But I did have fun with the folks in my patrol, yes we organized the trainees into a full troop.

 

BUT as a TCDL, I can see the need for mandatory training, especially in the outdoor part of the program. In the 24 registered TC parents in our pack, only 3 have any experience in the BSA or GSUSA. And guess what, 2 are TCDLs, one is in the process of being recruited for pack committee. NONE of the other 21 parents have had anything to do with scouting. As we get them more engaged, we want them to know what they are doing.

 

BUT for old fogeys like you, me, and others, I ma a big fan of challenge options consisting of a written test AND a skills test.

[HICO_Eagle 93]

Eagle92, that's why I prefer promoting and highly encouraging courses that will help fill the holes in the trainee's knowledge -- but not making things mandatory. One of our most active fathers is already a very experienced manager, he knows leadership, management, training, etc. What he needs are outdoor skills -- IOLS or the old SMF would be perfect for him. He could also use the TCC training so he knows what's expected of him or how to solve some of the problems that come his way. On the other hand, he works 12 hours days and many weekends -- I would rather deal with his incomplete knowledge than lose him over some training mandate.

 

I started Scouting over 30 years ago, read the 6th edition BS Handbook before I even joined Cubs, got the train-the-trainer and unit leadership stuff over my military career, etc. What I could use would be refreshers on current first aid thinking (I notice BSA training material hasn't kept up with current thoughts about not needing to do artificial respiration when performing CPR), skills I lack (e.g., chainsaw use), etc.

 

All of this would be better solved IMNSHO by laying out a course outline of OPTIONAL courses with an explanation of the target audience and benefits. For example, "IOLS is intended to provide basic outdoor leadership knowledge and skills for those who are new to the BSA outdoor program. This course will cover the basic outdoor requirements all Scouts need on their journey to first class such as ....". Sell the course based on the fact that it will cover things the adult knows s/he doesn't have but don't mandate it unless it is one of a FEW easily done courses for legal coverage like YPT.

 

If National had implemented these mandates 30 years ago, my troop would probably have folded. It was a small troop but roughly 25% of us made Eagle despite the adults' official training deficiencies. I appreciate the fact that we had some adults willing to devote ANY time keeping us and the program going.

[Eagle92 110]

HICO,

One big difference between leaders from 30 years ago, or even 20 in my case, and today, IS the lack of outdoor skills. Most of your generation of leaders were WWII vets. They had the basic skills from their time in the service. Ditto my leaders who were Vietnam vets, or still serving in a few cases. Since the all volunteer military, outdoor skills learned in military service have been lost.

 

That's why I like the idea of the Challenge. I think it would be easy to set up such a challenge at a camporee where the adults with the could demonstrate the t-2-1 skills.

 

I also like idea of having someone with the skills already, but haven't gone through the official course yet, serving on staff teaching what he knows, and getting signed off on it. Still trying to get my WB21C trained friend who has not taken IOLS, but has served on summer camp staff, been through BA22 as a youth, serves as a Camping, Hiking, Pioneering, backpacking, Wilderness Survival MBC, and is an Eagle to work on an IOLS course. I honestly think he needs it.

[Eagle92 110]

Should have edited when I had the chance, pesky kids.

 

That last sentence should read "I honestly think he DOES NOT need it." (Caps to emphasis late edit.

[BrentAllen 10]

HICO,

American Red Cross still teaches 30 & 2. I have heard some organizations are teaching the "European" method of chest compressions only, but we (AMR) still teach rescue breathing as part of CPR.

 

I think the BSA could learn something about training from AMR. Instruction is now mostly provided with DVD's (standardization of instruction, quality control) and instructors are there to observe and correct technique, and answer questions. This method couldn't be used for every part of every course, but could be used in some areas.

[Eagle92 110]

Brent,

AHA teaches compression only CPR IF, and I stress the IF, you are in a situation that

 

1) You do not have a barrier

 

2) the victim is an adult, stressing ADULT

 

3) and you are uncomfortable giving mouth to mouth.

 

Infant child still needs breathing irregardless.

 

I've been told to be on the look out for a 50:2 ratio. Told that the science points to that as an acceptable ratio for adults for adults at the last conference in 2005, but there were some skeptics so they only did 30:2.

 

We'll see in 2011 when it gets updated from the 2010 conference

 

 

[resqman 108]

Not quite sure how you create one when it does not exist. When an Adult wants to become an ASM, he is told he must complete the 4 modules within a year. We expect him to complete YPT before he can attend a campout. We usually can tell him when the next courses will be offered since some of the troop leaders are trainers and suggest he review the council website for training opportunities.

 

The SM is woodbadge trained. At least 4 other uniformed leaders are woodbadgers. Of those 4, at least three are wood badge trainers. The last IOLS course, half the staff was from our troop. We also had 3-4 troop adults taking the course.

 

I guess it starts soon as the prospective adult asks how to become a leader in the troop. 1. fill out application, 2. buy complete uniform, 3. Attend training

 

If all the other adults are trained and constantly making references to the training, then naturally you would want to attend training to be like the rest of the gang.

 

Our troop also runs its own YLT course every six months. We hold troop elections every 6 months. With 6 patrols and troop positions, we usually have about 12-15 scouts attending. Actually YLT is a prerequiste of putting your name on the ballot. Scouts are told that they cannot run for office if they cannot attend YLT weekend two weeks after elections.

[AvidSM 11]

My district is really having trouble with this whole issue. We don't have a boy scout training chair. We didn't offer Leader Specific Training or Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills classes in 2009. We don't have a nearby outdoor location in which to hold this training.

 

On top of that, training will be manditory starting in 2010 for all key scout leaders: Cubmasters, Scoutmasters and Crew Advisors. Then in 2011 it will be manditory for all direct-contact leaders. Our Council does not keep good records, so I doubt it knows who is trained and who is not.

 

I think what is going to happen is when a unit tries to recharter in 2010 with untrained leaders, their application will get rejected. I hope it doesn't come to this because there will be no time to get these leaders trained at that point.

 

Creating a training culture is going to take time and leadership. I am even contemplating having the commissioner staff run one of these courses if need be. It's just hard getting enough leaders involved at the distrit level.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Avid,

 

If your Council lacks the support structure to maintain training records on volunteers, then you need to have a businesslike meeting with your COR, District Commissioner, and DE. Let your COR be the heavy. It's time for blunt, straightforward language. Service and support to the Chartered Partner is part of the Charter Agreement, the Council needs to do its job.

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

From the 2010 PTC Schedule, June 20-26:

 

Implementation of Required Training

 

Stand by for RAM, folks!