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Argyle writes:I emailed the District Commissioner. His response, well, he didn't have a clue what I was trying to ask him.The reason you got no response from the DC is because you asked the wrong person. You need to address your questions to your district training chairperson.


As a former DTC, I would say your folks need to present a trained card to document their training. I know a "Scout is trustworthy", and our district had an "amnesty" period (well-announced several months in advance) in which they would agree to credit a person for training with no evidence beyond their word that they took it.


The amnesty period is now closed and all such claims must now be accompanied with a trained card -- no card, no credit. Meaning you have to retake the course if you want credit for it.


You need to ask your DTC (not your DC) what is the policy in your district. Simply filling out a trained card won't do -- I doubt you could get any blank ones, as their distribution is limited to district training chairs.


With respect to your second question, if they completed SMF (or whatever the SM basic training course was called at the time) and CSLBT, and produced cards showing that, I would give them credit for NLE and Position-specific for CMs and SMs. Ask your DTC for the local policy.


I'm curious why they want or need credit for SMF and CSLBT in their new roles a mates on a Ship?

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To be considered fully trained, the Mates need NLE, Venturing Leader Specific, and Sea Scout Officer Specialized Training.


I thought I had the Ship's officers 100% trained, I still do, but the records aren't agreeing with me.(This message has been edited by Argyle)

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The guidance you've been given about contacting the District Training Chair is correct. There is a form that s/he can fill out and send to the registrar to have the records updated.


The trainings your leaders attended were versions in place before the current training structure was created. There was no "New Leader Essentials" at that time. The information in NLE was in all the basic training courses, and was repeated each time a leader was trained. When the new trainings were created and introduced in '01, New Leader Essentials was created, so that leaders didn't have to sit through "basic" information again and again.


Your leaders are fully trained for being a SM, or any Cub Scout Leader position. At this point they would need NLE and the Venturing training and the Sea Scout Leader training, to be trained for a Ship position.


The problem of training not "sticking" was almost perennial in the 90s. I've been *told* that it has been fixed in ScoutNet, but I'll believe it when I see it.


I routinely obtain trained leader lists from the council, check them against my training course rosters and update the records, but it's a hassle. However, the units get accurate reports, so it is worth it.

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Go and buy a big box of chocolates, visit the Council Registrar.

Give her the chocolates, ask her to look at the training records and put them right.

Open the chocolates and enjoy them with her.

After all life is a box of...


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Argyle, now I'm really confused -- why would anyone consider CSLBT and SMF as being "100% trained" for a Ship position?


I don't know what training was / is offered for Sea Scout leaders, but assuming Venturing Training is required now, Venturing Leader Specific Training could not have been offered prior to the roll-out of Venturing in 1998.


So any training acquired prior to 1998 (in the examples you mentioned, 1991 for SMF and 1994 for CSLBT), besides being for entirely different programs, completely predate Venturing as a program (its possible Explorer leader training might substitute, but you make no mention of your leaders having Explorer training).


So maybe I'm missing something, but even if they got credit for SMF and CSLBT, how could that possibly qualify them as being "100% trained" for a Ship adult leader position?


You could argue that they've already received the equivalent of NLE as part of their prior training -- I wouldn't have a problem with that. But NLE alone doesn't make them "100% trained" as a Ship Officer, if they need VLST, and haven't had it.


So I would suggest, that if they still need VLST (and it sounds like they do), they might as well go ahead and take NLE ("only" 90 minutes!), so they can rightfully wear the "trained" patch for their Ship positions.


I'm sure I've mis-understood something, so please feel free to enlighten me . . .

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NLE, Venturing Specific, and Sea Scout Officer Specialized are the three that the Sea Scout leaders are required to have.


We've conducted all these courses a number of times both in house and at district/council events. But, they're not showing up on the leader's training records. I thought that with the BSLBT Completed, they ought to get credit for NLE.


It looks like I'll need to both track down cards and training rosters.....somehow.


Thanks for all the input. Maybe I will try the chocolates!

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OK, one last question to clear a final bit of confusion: you say you've conducted NLE both in-house and at district training, and that the leaders in question have had it.


That being the case, why is it so important for them to qualify for NLE credit using old courses? Why not focus on getting them credit for the NLE classes they've actually taken?


In other words, if they've actually taken NLE, what is the relevance of the credit (or lack thereof) of the old SMF and CSLBT courses?

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Just found it strange that these two mates who have been SM and CM for years are now not considered trained. Instead of going card hunting, I was wondering if those courses had counted previously and now all of a sudden they're not trained. It is odd though, some who were at the same training got credit, some didn't. We'll get it straight. Just thought others may have had the same issues.

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To answer your question...No, the basic leaders training is NOT the same as the NLE! The NLE covers subjects that are more along the lines of how and where to get help, the organization of scouting, etc. and is the same course for both Cubs and Boy Scouts. The Basic leaders training is then leader -specific- ...teaching them the things that they need to know to run a troop.


sue m.

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