How often should leaders repeat training?

[NIscouter 10]

I wanted to get some feedback on how often a leader should be "trained", or retrained for a lack of a better phrase. I asked our district training coordinator and he indicated once every two years or so. Some of the adults I talk with seem to think that once you have attended training, no more is ever needed. I myself think that once every two or three years is a good idea, with the exception of the new leader training.

[acco40 95]

Some training - safe swim defense, safety afloat, youth protection, etc. I think can be reviewed, either on one's own or in a classroom setting, every two years or so. Other training, such as Leader Specific, Wood Badge, etc. is a different story. If you really want to learn something, try and teach it to others. Volunteer yourself to the training staff. Besides, it is a good idea not to get the same "trainers" year after year.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[NIscouter 10]

acco40 - I really was looking for some guidelines for some of our current leaders in my troop. We have some of the leaders who were trained 4 to 6 years ago and it shows, although the inability to read and review program-related material (like SM handbk) may be part of it. I was looking for some supporting reasons/info to try to get these guys updated on their training. My problem in our troop seems to be having more training than most :>>

[acco40 95]

Like some of our Scouts, some Scouters get trained just to get their ticket punched so to speak. They got trained so that they can get that coveted 'trained" patch and earn a training square knot. For those, it will be difficult to get them to go to training again.

 

On rare occasions, cost may be a factor. Although I'm a big believer in training, it is not a panacea to all of Scoutings ills. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[SeattlePioneer 144]

My Scoutmaster handbook is copyrighted 1981. D'ya 'spose I should buy a new one?

 

 

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[orennoah 11]

Rather than repeating training (other then YPT and the others that have "expiration dates"), adult leaders should be encouraged to staff training. Being on the "other side" will do more for one's own mastery of the material than going through the training again and it will be more helpful to Scouting in general.

 

- Oren

"I used to be a Bear . . . .

WE3-41-03

Quartermaster

WE5-41-05

[Bob White 20]

Depends on which leader, and on which course.

[madkins007 10]

I would suggest retraining when changing positions, or when a new training process or program is available.

 

Otherwise, I'd encourage participation in Roundtable, University of Scouting/Pow-Wow, Woodbadge, Philmont Training Center, and other on-going training options. Personally, I try to encourage 100% participation in Pow-Wow, and at least a couple RTs a year.

 

Doesn't totally fix the problem, but it helps, and most people are more likely to attend it than to be 'retrained'.

[Eamonn 61]

I have to agree with Bob White.

Many Leaders do learn a lot more when they are asked to present the training.

But as a rule the asker will be looking for people who are not only good presenters but who seem to have a grasp for what they learned at training and are using it.

Ours is a small District where it seems everyone knows everyone, when I was Training Chair. I wasn't going to ask the SM who doesn't use the methods of Scouting to present a session on them. To my way of thinking this sends the wrong message to the participants.

If you are looking for a hard and fast rule that says that Scouter's have to return every so many years you are out of luck. There isn't one.

I have found that the people who do return for a refresher course are as a rule the people who either don't need it or if they keep coming back they are somehow using it as some snob value.These people take every training that is offered and are so busy being trained that they never use what they learn. They do find time to chew your ear off telling you how many training's they have attended!!

Wood Badge is mostly seen as a one time only.

Strange thing is that every-time I see the NLE Training I see something I missed or I see it in a different light.

I think the videos that go with the Scoutmaster Specific Training are really good and are worth taking the time to view again and discuss. They cover a lot of important things in a very short amount of time. If a SM or ASM has gone through the Outdoor skills and is still not comfortable, I think rather than retaking the course that he should contact a Staffer and I bet something can be worked out for some one on one training.

Many Leaders come away from Training's on a "Training High" they want to fix everything all at once. Many ASM's never get the opportunity. Some find the wiggle room and slowly change things, others just give up. It really not their fault.

The Patrol method wasn't all it could be in the Troop which my son is a member. They never send any Scouts to what was JLTC. OJ, managed to wangle a position on staff (Friends in high places?) He staffed the course twice. He really did put a lot of time and effort into making flip charts, talking with me about what the words on the paper meant to me and what he thought they meant. He also with the OA took NLS. When he was elected SPL, He was clever enough to see that he wasn't going to change everything that his SM had been doing wrong for the past 20 years (SM, is a Silver Beaver, two time Jamboree SM, ex-district activities chair.Wood Badge Trained. And a very nice guy) But OJ seen places and things that could be changed and he worked on them.

He is too busy to staff the new course this year.

I have been involved in training for about ten years. Nothing that I have ever presented is a big secret (OK,so we don't broadcast some of the sessions from Wood Badge, not because we want them to be secret, but we want them to have a power that might be lost if everyone had seen the presentation 99 times before.) I try really hard to show participants where the material came from. Most can be found in the Boy Scout and the Scoutmaster Handbooks. For Wood Badge The One Minute Manager Books by Ken Blanchard.

I would sooner see a SM or ASM use these resources and put them to use than return to hear me drone on again and again.

Some people attend trainings because they want to. They arrive with an open mind and heart. They want to go home with lots of new tools and skills. Sad to say others come because they feel they have too or they want the patch or the beads. They think they know everything already, they want to pick holes or argue about everything. Some have their own agenda, they feel that National or the Council or District has wronged them and they use training as a place to let "Everyone" know their displeasure. Of course a well trained Trainer doesn't allow this to happen!!

To my way of thinking it wouldn't matter if these types attended training four times a year. There is no way even the best of Trainers is going to win them over.

While people like Bob White and myself do at times sound like a broken record suggesting that training is the answer to most things.

I can't speak for Bob, but I think that there are a fair amount of very well meaning people who even with the best intentions in the world are just mule headed and the trainings we offer just don't stick!!

Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[FScouter 24]

There is some value in repeating a training course. I've repeated, and also served as a presenter. There's a new wrinkle and a new perspective every time.

 

One of the most valuable parts of training courses is that they point the leader to additional resources. Did you know that there are 57 literature resources listed in the Scoutmaster Handbook? They are found at the end of the last chapter. Appendix 1 of the Cub Scout Leader Book has several pages listing many types of resources including sources for program ideas, materials, equipment, people, and character development.

[scoutldr 732]

Eammon said, "I wasn't going to ask the SM who doesn't use the methods of Scouting to present a session on them. To my way of thinking this sends the wrong message to the participants.'

 

This was a perfect opportunity to "train" the errant SM. Having to learn the methods and present them to others may have got him to thinking...the students probably are new and don't know him or his history.

 

When I was a new Training Chair, the DE "helped" me by signing up some "experienced" old gray haired SMs who were wearing 30 year service stars. I never asked them again. Their ignorance of the program was appalling, although they are revered as pillars of the Council.

[Eamonn 61]

scoutldr

While you do make a good point.

I really prefer to see people who practice what they preach, when it comes to training.

Also how can a Leader who does do whatever? Answer a question about using it? When he never has.

As one of them there white haired (Way past gray) haired Scouters with a long service pin all I can say to that is please don't judge the book by its cover.

Eamonn

[madkins007 10]

Scoutldr- I had almost the exact same experience! I could not believe the quality of some of our district's hallowed heads when it comes to training. Apparently, a group of them that had done this for years took some sort of pleasure from somewhat abusing the attendees- critiqueing uniforms, asking trick or leading questions, etc.

 

I never asked them back, even though I got several calls from a few asking to help.

 

[scoutldr 732]

That's my point, Eamonn. Don't judge the book by it's gray (or white) cover. Just because an SM is "experienced", doesn't mean they know what they are doing. Do they have 30 years of experience, or one year of experience times 30?

 

Yes, leaders should repeat training...the program has changed since 1965. That's one of the purpose of Roundtables, to present new information and keep everyone on the same sheet of music. Problem is attendance, which in my district is pretty sad.

[Lynda J 10]

I think on everything except YPT, Safety Afloat, Safe Swim it should be required that you retake the training every 5 years. I love training. Have done Essentials and Specific twice. Outdoor Skills three times. I have also staffed for Outdoor Skills and will be staffing again this fall. I learn something new from each and every training I take. Simply because you are being exposed to different people and trainers. Those people have different ways of doing things and different ideal.