Lessons in Group Dynamics 2

[Backpacker 11]

I love the way Barry gets right to the core of this thread once again. The dynamics of the forum do not relate to Bobs premise, so the premise becomes false and irrelevant. So as I stated on a previous post, there is no correlation Bob.

 

Barry keep up the good work and those great postings of yours. Ed ditto on the invite, keep the campfire burning.

[Eagledad 2779]

>>This is not problem solving. It is understanding group dynamics and how to work with, coach, help a team (think patrol).

[Bob White 20]

Lets clear a few things up. ANY group goes through the 4 stages of group development it may happen at different times and for different lengths of timeand at different intensities, but all groups are subject to the same dynamic forces.

 

Storming is not dependent on either leadership or vision. In fact it is through storming that leadership often arises and that a group vision is formed so not only do that not need to be present ahead of time they are often the result of the storming activity.

 

So this is a very appropriate topic. So I will ask the qwuestion again. What is storming, and what is its purpose. Backpack you took the course, rather than interfer why not participate in a more positve way and share what you learned about storming as a Wood Badge staff member?

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

Help!!

As ever I have gone and got myself a little confused (What's New About That!!)

In the 21st Century Wood Badge Course, Bruce Tuckman, the educational psychologist who came up with four stages of team development in 1965 (He added a fifth in 1977) Is mentioned as a background note. The Forming, Storming,Norming and performing are not part of the course.

This is replaced in the course material with the Team Development Model, by Ken Blanchard. He uses the: "Pickup Sticks", "At Odds", "Coming Around", "As One". There is a copyrighted diagram which I think is taken from : The One Minute Manager Builds High Performing Teams.

While knowing the stages that a team goes through is an important part of leadership, neither Tuckman or Blanchard intended these to be used as tools for evaluation of past performance.

I have read most of the books that Ken Blanchard has written, I have to admit to not knowing much about Bruce W. Tuckman. I have copied his explanation of the stages including the fifth stage.

Trying to answer Bob White's question about Storming or "At odds".

This is a time when the group members are experiencing a lot of dissatisfaction,and the morale of the group is low. Some members of the group will present differing points of view and there could be conflict within the group and even the task or goal could be brought into question. "Why are we doing this?" Or "This is not worth doing!" Might be heard.

Even though the group is at odds or in a storm, this is where the group start to understand each other. It might also be a time when a better way of dealing with or going about the task at hand or arriving at the goal might be found. It might also be a time when it become clear who the best team leader might be?

Storming in Group Development is not to be mistaken for Brain Storming.

Stage one: Forming

Individual behavior is driven by a desire to be accepted by the others, and avoid controversy or conflict. Serious issues and feelings are avoided, and people focus on being busy with routines, such as team organization, who does what, when to meet, etc. But individuals are also gathering information and impressions - about each other, and about the scope of the task and how to approach it. This is a comfortable stage to be in, but the avoidance of conflict and threat means that not much actually gets done.

Stage 2: Storming

Individuals in the group can only remain nice to each other for so long, as important issues start to be addressed. Some people's patience will break early, and minor confrontations will arise that are quickly dealt with or glossed over. These may relate to the work of the group itself, or to roles and responsibilities within the group. Some will observe that it's good to be getting into the real issues, whilst others will wish to remain in the comfort and security of stage 1. Depending on the culture of the organization and individuals, the conflict will be more or less suppressed, but it'll be there, under the surface. To deal with the conflict, individuals may feel they are winning or losing battles, and will look for structural clarity and rules to prevent the conflict persisting.

Stage 3: Norming

As Stage 2 evolves, the "rules of engagement" for the group become established, and the scope of the group's tasks or responsibilities are clear and agreed. Having had their arguments, they now understand each other better, and can appreciate each other's skills and experience. Individuals listen to each other, appreciate and support each other, and are prepared to change pre-conceived views: they feel they're part of a cohesive, effective group. However, individuals have had to work hard to attain this stage, and may resist any pressure to change - especially from the outside - for fear that the group will break up, or revert to a storm.

Stage 4: Performing

Not all groups reach this stage, characterised by a state of interdependence and flexibility. Everyone knows each other well enough to be able to work together, and trusts each other enough to allow independent activity. Roles and responsibilities change according to need in an almost seamless way. Group identity, loyalty and morale are all high, and everyone is equally task-orientated and people-orientated. This high degree of comfort means that all the energy of the group can be directed towards the task(s) in hand

Stage 5: Adjourning

This is about completion and disengagement, both from the tasks and the group members. Individuals will be proud of having achieved much and glad to have been part of such an enjoyable group. They need to recognize what they've done, and consciously move on. Some authors describe stage 5 as "Deforming and Mourning", recognizing the sense of loss felt by group members.

I will, I promise get around to putting this is a Scouting context.

If we are looking at Team Development as being the same thing as Group Dynamics?? I don't remember a session on dynamics - Unless they were talking about me!! (Joke.)

Eamonn.

 

 

[FScouter 24]

Quoting Bob (brackets added):

"What is storming, and what is its purpose. Backpack you took the course, [rather than interfer why not participate in a more positve way and] share what you learned about storming as a Wood Badge staff member?"

 

How does his phrase in brackets affect the group dynamics? What kind of response could we expect from Backpacker? Is this part of storming?

[Bob White 20]

First F Scouter.

 

No it is not, it was a request to become a more positive voice in the discusson.

 

Eamonn

 

I have heard and presented the Forming, storming, norming and performing process under both titles. The important part is of course the content more so than what we call it by. And you hit it.

 

Storming "is a time when the group members are experiencing a lot of dissatisfaction,and the morale of the group is low. Some members of the group will present differing points of view and there could be conflict within the group and even the task or goal could be brought into question."

 

This is a common occurrence in any gorup when it is first formed or when new members are added, and even sometimes when they leave. How long stroming lasts and how volatile it is depends on the specific group. It is also posible for part of the group to stay locked in the storming process while others movr into norming.

 

Storming is a period where group member's determine not only the groups overall structure but make determinations of individual and group strengths and weaknesses. Individuals try to show their abilities as individuals so that their position in the group can be determined. You see this in patrols when new members come in or when a patrol is newly formed.

 

During storming the performance is always reduced since members are not focused on working together but are workung to establish their own position.

 

That is why reoganizing patrols is so harmful to the program, everytime you reorganize the group or team will go through this storming phase which could last months or minutes you cannot predict it. But you can reduce it by grouping scouts similar in age, ability, and experience.

 

In a situation such as this board, we see our own performance drop off dramatically as new members jon and the storming resurfaces. In an attempt to show the new posters who has what skills or what each others role is in the forum we suddenly see attacks on posters display individual knowledge.

 

For the last few "storms" when new people join, my posts weree chosen for others to challenge, not over their content but to challenge me personally, in order to establish individual roles in the group. I(f you loo back at similar occurences it is for the most part the same people each time.

 

As I said while stroming continues the performance of the group as a whole is greatly lowered. The likely outcome is that norming will be achieved after an unkown length of time among a portion of the group rather than the group as a whole, as new members make their determinations as to what the role on the forum is of each individual and what their role will be withing the group.

 

After that a perion of normaly will resume and performance will increase until new members Join and the storming process will repeat.

 

The interesting thing about these dynamics is they cannot be avoided, even once you know they exist, it is an inevitable process that must take place in order to funtion as a group.

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagledad 2779]

>>But you can reduce it by grouping scouts similar in age, ability, and experience.

[evmori 11]

It seems the purpose of this thread to justify ones behavior on this board not group dynamics! Interesting!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Backpacker 11]

Amen Brother Ed!

 

Bob, as was already pointed out to you, by Barry and others, these stages have no correlation to this forum because we are not patrol building towards a common goal. When people disagree with your criticism and demeanor you may consider that storming, in reality you just tick people off. In an earlier post to me you admitted that you do not consider yourself an expert in scouting, that was the most open I have ever seen you. Okay, none of us are experts in scouting but we are all doing the best we can to deliver the best program possible to our youth. We should be working together to openly discuss ideas openly and freely, even if they aren't in the handbook, and to help one another, not tear each other down. I for one would like to see the interchanges in this forum be more friendly and not adversarial. I will strive to be more positive in my approach to others, even with you Bob.

[Bob White 20]

This is not just applicable to patrols. It applies to any group.

 

My brother and his wife recently had a baby bringing their family to 4 (forming the group).

 

Their 3 year old was fine until the baby was actually born. Even in the birthing room he would not leave his toys to go to lunch for fear the "baby" would take them. For a few days he was watching very closely to see who this new person was and what he was capable of, and what effect it would have on him (storming).

 

By the fourth day he was able to go about his day without any concern for the new guy and would go over and check him out and ask questions about when he would be able to play with him (norming). A week later he was helping to entertain him, offered him his toys to play with and asked if he could teach his new brother how to walk. he had accepted the baby as a family (team or group)member and was ready to do things together (performing).

 

They experienced the same dynamics as any "group" will go through. This is not about patrols but applies to patrols because they are a team..a group... and so these forces will arise at predictable times. Just as they arose in this group at a predictable time, when new members joined.

 

It will end when members of the group begin to "norm", that is when they find their niche in the group and make determinations on others. Not all will norm, and of those that do not all norm at the same time. The group that does will begin having meaningful exchanges (perform) sooner than those who continue storming for position.

 

While I look forward to friendly exchanges it is apparent not not all posters are here for that. That constant storming for identity within the group will not halt performance entirely but it does keep the group from being able to achieve peak performance.

 

 

[evmori 11]

If you need group dynamics to helps you understand small children and families, then I think it's time to step away from the books & get back to the real world. Most three year olds will react that way! It has nothing to do with group dynamics! It has everything to do with the way three year olds react and the way the parents handle it! It's called family not group dynamics!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Backpacker 11]

Yes Bob,

 

Is it not the purpose of the forum a friendly interchange of ideas among scouters, not achieving a performance standard or storming for a position of power among the contributors? So I still say these stages of group dynamics are for groups to form a solid bond toward reaching a common goal. In the forum we are here to swap stories and ideas, but we all have different goals or reasons for participating in these discussions. We are not a single unit but a group of diverse scouters who are working within our own units.

[Bob White 20]

"Is it not the purpose of the forum a friendly interchange of ideas among scouters,"

 

I would agree that is purpose, and so achieving and maintaining that state would be the sought after performance for the group.

 

Ed, it has everything to do with group dynamics. You are correct, that is how 3 year olds behave. We know that. Why is that? Why those behaviors take place is explained in the team dynamics model.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

Ed, it has everything to do with group dynamics. You are correct, that is how 3 year olds behave. We know that. Why is that? Why those behaviors take place is explained in the team dynamics model.

 

Why does a 3 year old behave like that? I don't have that answer and I'm sure neither does group dynamics. Dr. James Dobson has written many excellent books on raising children & families. I suggest your brother & his wife pick up a book or two of his. He also is the founder of Focus on the Family. He is excellent!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

Ed thank you for your concern, but my brother is doing just fine. In fact he has retained 100% of his kids for the last three years. An feat some Scoutleaders do not do in 9 months.