advancement chair?

[Scouting Mom]

I''m confused... When you are saying keep track of achievements, do you mean for example, Boy A has done achievement 12B,14C and 3A? That kinda thing? Because, with the exception of Webelos, the parents should be signing off in the boy''s handbook and there''s your record.

 

If it''s Webelos and the boy transferred somewhere in his 4th or 5th grade year, then anything he did up until his transfer should be signed in his book by his DL from his old pack. Anything the boy claims to have done and is not signed off on, then the DL needs to work with the boy to determine what is fair to sign off on.

 

If you are talking about which beltloops or whatever, the boy should have the physical proof of what he earned. If not, ask him or his parents.

 

If the problem is something like not knowing if he earned Bobcat, again, ask and go with the answer. If you check the "transfer" box when the boy fills out his application, and indicate where he transferred from, then it''s your Council''s problem to cross reference any awards your AC files paperwork on with any prerequisites, like Bobcat.

[Pack378]

it''s more like has the boy earned his summertime award or music beltloop......

[funscout]

Scouts are supposed to be trustworthy...

 

When a scout transfers, you should at the very least be able to get information on rank advancement from his previous Council office. As far as belt loops, pins, and Webelos awards, I don''t know what you can do if the boy doesn''t have them marked off in his book.

 

Parents are supposed to mark their child''s scout book, but I think the den leader should also keep copies of the records that are turned in to the advancement chair. Books can, and do, get lost! As a den leader, I kept records of which advancements were earned at each den meeting, and with the attendance record, I knew exactly which boys had been there to earn them. I also, of course kept track of achievements that the boys earned outside of den meetings. So, when books went missing (often in divorced families where the kid goes back and forth between houses) I still had my records.

 

The advancement Coordinator should definitely keep records of awards that Den leaders turn in to them. When I was Advancement Chair, I sometimes got requests for duplicate awards. With my records, I could prove to the den leader/parent that their boy had already received the award.

[Scouting Mom]

"it''''s more like has the boy earned his summertime award or music beltloop...... "

 

Two totally different issues. For beltloops, take the parents or scout''s word for it.

 

Summertime award first requires that the PACK earn the summertime award. If the pack didn''t earn it, the boys can''t earn it. The pack had to have an event per month all summer. If the pack didn''t organize it or get sufficient attendance, the boys can''t earn the award. Whoever is keeping track of whether the pack has earned the award will also be taking attendance at the events. The attendance list will show which individual boys earned the award.

 

If you are trying to determine if a recent transfer earned this over this past Summer, you''ll have to check with the old pack. The boy may have done everything in his power to earn the award before moving away, but if the pack didn''t earn it he''s out of luck.

[pavilm]

Who is ultimately responsible for verifying a Cub Scouts Advancement, The Parent and DL or the AC? If a parent or Den Leader states that Joey Scout has done the requirements for a certain belt loop or Pin, should that be sufficient?

 

Should Scouts ever be made to prove their requirements by passing a one on one test with the AC? I thought the requirements for most of Cub Scouts was to "do you best" or try to attempt, not memorize. I understand Boys Scouts have a Board of Review, but should Cub Scouts be subjected to this?(This message has been edited by pavilm)

[ScoutNut]

In Cub Scouts the bottom line is "Do Your Best". BSA specifically states that Cubs should NOT be tested. That they should NOT be placed in a position where they are set up to fail.

 

Parents know when their son has done his best. If the parents sign off on a requirement (ANY requirement) then it is a done deal. As much as some do not like it, we MUST accept what parents tell us their son has completed.

 

 

[Scouting Mom]

The parent is Akela. The den leader is Akela. If they say the award is earned, it's earned.

There is no testing done in Cub Scouts. The AC's only role is to double check that any pre-requisites are met (ie. if they never earned the belt loop, they can't earn the pin...maybe the DL forgot to mention the boy did both). And then the AC arranges for the awards to be purchased and awarded.

 

I will however, repeat what I said earlier...have the parents communicate awards through the DL, not directly to the AC....it saves on confusion. AND parents aren't to sign off in the Webelos book. That's not to say that the parents can't work on things with their boys, but it's up to the DL to sign off and it IS reasonable for the DL to request "proof" such as the scrapbook for the artist badge or the highlighted maps for the traveler badge or to have a conversation with the boy about what he did during the course of earning a badge.

[pavilm]

Thank you, we are having some confusion in our Pack over Boys earning their awards, with the AC testing Scouts one on one on Bobcat things, expecting them to recite verbatim and questioning every stitch of requirement for a belt loop or pin. I am very opposed to testing the boys in such a manner. It will turn off the boys and parents from Scouting.

 

I am happy if they just try to say the items and know what they mean, you know "Do your Best". Scouts who try but fail should not be punished for doing their best. The memorization comes by us doing it at every Den Opening and Pack meeting.

[perdidochas]

In Cub Scouts the bottom line is "Do Your Best". BSA specifically states that Cubs should NOT be tested. That they should NOT be placed in a position where they are set up to fail.

 

I both agree and disagree with the above. I think memorization is important, and so I do test my Bobcat candidates. That said, rarely do any kids fail (as I do gentle guidance). IMHO, without the chance of failure, there is no chance of success.

 

 Parents know when their son has done his best. If the parents sign off on a requirement (ANY requirement) then it is a done deal. As much as some do not like it, we MUST accept what parents tell us their son has completed.

 

True.

[pavilm]

 

"I both agree and disagree with the above. I think memorization is important, and so I do test my Bobcat candidates. That said, rarely do any kids fail (as I do gentle guidance). IMHO, without the chance of failure, there is no chance of success. "

 

No where does it say the Scout has to memorize the words to the Promise or Law of the Pack, it says "learn and say" as well as "Do Your Best". I would not "Fail" any Scout for not being able to say them, they should be able to explain the concepts of both and with help, get the words out, but not have to memorize, that will come with time in Scouting IMO.

 

Do people honestly want a Scout's first attempt at an advancement (Bobcat) to be such an ordeal?

[perdidochas]

"I both agree and disagree with the above. I think memorization is important, and so I do test my Bobcat candidates. That said, rarely do any kids fail (as I do gentle guidance). IMHO, without the chance of failure, there is no chance of success. "

 

No where does it say the Scout has to memorize the words to the Promise or Law of the Pack, it says "learn and say" as well as "Do Your Best". I would not "Fail" any Scout for not being able to say them, they should be able to explain the concepts of both and with help, get the words out, but not have to memorize, that will come with time in Scouting IMO. Do people honestly want a Scout's first attempt at an advancement (Bobcat) to be such an ordeal?

 

There are three things to memorize, IMHO.

Scout promise, Scout Law and Scout motto. I agree, for Tigers, that's an ordeal for some to learn (that's why I guided them a lot). However, for my Webelos Is (4 new ones), it's not an ordeal--besides the ones who didn't look at it at all, all got it first try.

 

Personally, that's why I'm against Tigers getting Bobcat first. It makes much more sense for Tigers to get the Tiger Badge first, and then earn the Bobcat. However, when I was a Tiger Cub leader (the first year of the Bobcat first), we did earn it in the order prescribed.

 

The other side is that the kids who do the memorization, and are successful at it, they do truly have a sense of accomplishment. Just saying it doesn't leave that same sense. Giving an award that the child doesn't feel he truly worked for and deserved doesn't provide much in true self esteem.

[ScoutNut]

"There are three things to memorize, IMHO. Scout promise, Scout Law and Scout motto."

 

 

I beg to differ.

 

From the requirements for Bobcat (which we are not allowed to change per BSA) -

 

LEARN and SAY the Cub Scout Promise.

 

SAY the Law of the Pack. TELL what it means.

 

SAY the Cub Scout Motto.

 

The only requirement that could even remotely be construed as "memorize" would be to LEARN the Cub Scout Promise. However you can learn about something without memorizing it.

 

As for the rest of the Bobcat requirements -

 

TELL what WEBELOS means.

 

SHOW the Cub Scout Sign. TELL what it means.

 

SHOW the Cub Scout Handshake. TELL what it means.

 

GIVE the Cub Scout Salute. TELL what it means.

 

Lots of SHOW, SAY, GIVE, & TELL. Not one time does BSA state the boy must MEMORIZE!(This message has been edited by scoutnut)

[perdidochas]

Learn and say, to me means to recite from memory. (and, no I don't fail a kid for getting things in the wrong order). I don't think it's that honerous of a requirement, and I have never had a Cub not get their Bobcat.

[Sarge]

Since most boys at the beginning of Tigers are not very proficient readers, odds are they won't be standing on stage when it's their turn to present the colors with their books in hand to do the Promise. 'Learn and say' to me means memorize.

But we have gotten off topic.

The parents are responsible for seeing that their son is signed off for what he has completed. It is the DL's duty to document and pass along to the AC a list of all finished requirements for each boy every month.

It is the AC's job to see that those lists are properly charted for the pack and submitted to the council office in a timely manner so that the awards will arrive in time for the next Pack meeting.