Switching Dens

[lizzygo 10]

I was approached by a parent who wanted his son to join my tiger den. Is this allowed?

[msnowman 10]

I don't see any real reason why it wouldn't be allowed for the parent to have his boychild join your Den...but then again our Pack only has 1 of each rank, so I'm not real familiar with the politics of having multi dens and who goes to which den. Have you talked to your CM and the other DL? My thought would be that it would be better to have the boy switch dens instead of losing him due to a conflict of any kind with a den leader.

 

YiS

Michelle(This message has been edited by msnowman)

[Cubmaster Randy 10]

Why does he want to switch?

Does he want to change dens because of when the den meets? or where his buddies from his class are in?

i would discuss with the CM and the other TDL

We had a situation with two tiger dens. Several of the den 1 parents wanted to switch to the other den. problem was that we den 2 leader did not want 10 boys with the other only having 6. Fortunetly it was for a reason that we had control over. We were able to talk it out and come to a resolution before an implosion happened

[eagle-pete 11]

lizzygo

 

This is definitely allowed... the question is is it the best thing for the boy.

 

Your Cub Master may be able to provide some guidance in this, however I would be willing to bet that the ultimate decision will be up to you, the Den Leader.

 

I would have a sit-down talk with the parent and find out the reasoning behind the request to change dens.

 

Your final decision should be geared toward what is best for the boy.

 

Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

[Lisabob 13]

There could be a hundred reasons why and the response might be different, depending on the reason. Here are a few I've heard, that I might be pretty open to: the current den meets on a night that is difficult/impossible for the family to make; the current den includes boys who all attend the same school/class, except for one child, and the other den includes boys from a mix of different schools/classes, where the child might fit in better; there is a history of personal animosity between the den leader and a particular parent and both agree it would be better to have the boy in the other den.

 

On the other hand, if the parent's perception is simply that one den is "better" than another, I'd start asking a few hard questions (or let the Committee Chair do this, probably better). I'd want to know what the perceived problem is in the current den and what, if anything, the parent is willing to do to fix it. Especially with Tigers this is a group endeavor and if the parent only wants someone else to do the work then I'd use that as an opportunity to educate them about their role in the program too. Example, I knew one Tiger DL who was fabulous with the boys but terrible with written communication to the adults. If a parent wanted to switch dens over something like that, then I'd ask them to first consider helping the DL out with communications(this is what ended up happening and it worked out well for everyone). It could also be that the Tiger DL is really not well suited to the position and is not doing a good job - in which case the committee chair and cubmaster need to know sooner rather than later so they can either help the DL get on track or, in a worst-case scenario, find another DL. That information needs to be filtered through the CM and CC though, not through other den leaders, so I'd really direct the parents to talk with these folks first before making any kind of commitment to moving the boy.

 

There might also be a size disparity if one den is filled to capacity and another is smaller. In that case again I'd ask the parent to consider why moving the boy to the larger den might not be a good idea (less personal attention, more of a zoo).

 

In the end though I've rarely seen a situation where a boy (parent) really and truly wanted to move and the final answer was "no."

[lizzygo 10]

Thanks everyone. I did bring it to the Pack Committe chair and CM. They do not plan to switch him.

 

The boys father wanted him to switch because there was "rotating" leadership in the other den. Someone from the other den is ging to step up and lead the boys.

[eagle-pete 11]

Interesting

 

Did he have a problem with the new leader coming in or just a problem with the rotation itself?

 

Eagle Pete

[lizzygo 10]

The roatation itslef was the problem. There was no "official" leader.

 

It seems to me, that you need one person to coordinate everything and make sure the boys stay on track and earn their achievements.

 

At the pack meeting where this request occured my den was organized, sat together, received achievements and belt loops and came in second with their uniform inspection.

 

I think the parent saw that activity and wanted to be a part of it.(This message has been edited by lizzygo)

[Lisabob 13]

OK so if that's the problem then the answer is fairly easy - the other Tiger den needs a permanent DL and maybe this parent would like to step up and be that DL. In my experience when you have "rotating" DLs in a Tiger den it is usually because no one is willing to say "I'll do it." While understandable (most Tiger parents are brand new to scouts and don't know what they're getting into yet, so don't want to commit) it is also a signal to your pack leadership that someone (CM, CC, more experienced DL) needs to work with these parents to help them see that being a Tiger DL isn't that hard. You've already got all of the Tiger parents there and active in the program so it isn't the case that the Tiger DL will be doing "everything" by themselves (or anyway they shouldn't be!). Rather, their job is more to make sure that coordination occurs. And of course they're going to get all kinds of support from the CM and other DLs (right?) so they're really not going to be on their own.

 

This other Tiger Den could be a great den in the making but they do need leadership. If a parent is concerned enough to ask about switching dens then there is a person who is involved enough to be a good den leader candidate. Tap that energy/interest and help them get started!

 

 

[Cubmaster Randy 10]

A tiger den should be have shared leadership. The TDL is more of the person to keep the other parents informed of what is going on, and to lead them in the right direction. Our situation was similar. The one leader was terrible about keeping track of records.(also refused to get trained, but that is another story ) She liked doing the program, but the boys were not getting recognized. Had a talk with the parents, went over the requirments and they realized they had been doing the beads and activities. We recruited an assistant den leader who was good at keeping records. He went to training so I consider him to be the leader now.

We also had a former tiger leader become a "tiger coach". (I know it is not a current position, Pack Tainer would be more appropriate, but she only focus on the tiger dens) to mentor the dens the following year. It has worked pretty well. First year tiger parents need to get acclimated to the program

[lizzygo 10]

Thansk everyone, I will let you know how it all turns out.