Problems with Committee Members

[jafyfe-bsa 10]

As some may have read through some of my other post, I am an Eagle Scout who is returning to Boy Scouting with my boys. I was approached by the DEs to become involved in a pack that was "failing." My first clue that it was failing was the simple fact that at recruitment, only the DEs were there (we have two because the area is really growing).

 

At that meeting we were invited to the District Day Camp. My second clue was that at the Day Camp, no one from this pack had shown.

 

At the day camp, the DEs asked my wife and I if we could help with a program that brings Boy Scouting to mentally handicapped children in the area. Naturally we said yes, and my third clue was given; no one else from the pack showed.

 

Finally we get in e-mail inviting us to a Committee meeting; however this e-mail came through the DEs. Clue number four. All through out the meeting and the acts afterwards have made me second guess my commitment to this pack.

 

The Committee Chair left 20 minutes into the meeting due to other commitments. She discussed openly her dislikes for certain leaders and favors of others. The Committee Chair sets up separate, private meetings with leaders outside of Committee meetings, where they would discuss overtaking positions of other leaders.

 

The pack has no Cubmaster. The first person offered the position said he would if last years Committee Chair would step down (not the person mentioned above). After she did step down, the Cubmaster decided he could not give the commitment needed. The second Cubmaster wanted by a majority of the committee members agreed to the position; however, this years Committee Chair does not like and does not want him. She has been actively recruiting others with no success.

 

Since I joined I have attended two roundtables and two training classes, at both no one else showed from the pack.

 

This is all the grown up stuff and does not matter when it comes to the kids, but what bothers me the most about this whole group is the lack of understanding of what Cub Scouts means.

 

First with regards to the Membership Meeting set up by the Membership Chair. The meeting has been planned by the Committee at a Committee Meeting; however the Committee Chair has redone the meeting that now seem less organize, less about scouting, and lack the core meaning behind Cub Scouts, the boys have fun.

 

The second is that due to the fact that not a single person in the pack is trained beyond YPT, but does that excuse the lack of morals, leadership, and citizenship exemplified by the parents and taught to the Cub Scouts?

 

Overall this group, when compared to the people I have meet at roundtable and leadership training, seem very not in the right frame of mind to be leaders in Cub Scouting.

 

This experience has shown me that this may not be the pack for me.

 

My questions are:

 

1. Do children do better at packs attached to their schools?

 

2. What are some ways to handle leaders that dont seem to have their mind and heart in the Cub Scout place?

 

3. Am I being to sensitive, and should learn to deal with these people, because they will continue to occur in scouting?

 

[johndaigler 10]

1. Do children do better at packs attached to their schools?

 

I don't know if anyone has factual information to answer that one way or another, but speaking strictly from personal experience -- Boys do better when they are with friends. Sometimes that means making new friends through fun, exciting (Cub Scouting) adventures. Sometimes that means doing anything at all (math homework) as long as it's with a comfortable base group of others - others who may be friends for reasons outside of scouting. BTW, kids do BEST when they have friends AND their parents are actively involved in positive ways -- but I'm guessing you're already thinking along those lines.

 

2. What are some ways to handle leaders that dont seem to have their mind and heart in the Cub Scout place?

 

If you take a position of power and you're interested in dramatic confrontation, you can publicly duke it out. Messy and no one looks good at the end.

 

If you got more patience, try doing the right thing with whatever position you have. Sounds like there's a CM job open. Be as patient as you can and work toward bringing in more volunteer leaders who are interested in doing the job well and along the lines of the intended program. Set the standard, be the example.

 

 

3. Am I being to sensitive, and should learn to deal with these people, because they will continue to occur in scouting?

 

IMHO, you're not too sensitive, but dealing with people is often frustrating. People who annoy you will pop up everywhere in Scouting. There are people who know too little, people who know too much, people who talk too much, people who won't talk up when they should, people who are too sensitive, people who aren't sensitive enough, etc.

 

I think Scouting is the best possible activity for boys and their families. But we all see Scouting a bit differently, so patience, understanding, and the ability to walk in other's moccasins will help you be as successful as you want to be.

 

GOOD LUCK.

 

 

jd

 

oh, BTW, I deleted the other two times your original post appeared - just for simplicity's sake. It would get confusing if you get 3 answers in three different places.

(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[Bob White 20]

I cannot really answer your questions but let me ask you some knew ones.

 

1 If you were the chairman of a pack committee would you rather choose your own committee members or have them inserted by the local District Executive into your committee?

 

2 How would you feel toward that "inserted" committee member?

 

3 Do you think it is right for your DE to ask a new volunteer to help a failing pack, AND help with a special needs troop?

 

4 Knowing the pack was failing what did the DE think you could accomplish by putting you in without putting you in-charge?

 

5 What good is recruiting boys into a failing unit if you haven't first addressed why it is failing? Simply having more boys who can quit is not an improvement.

 

and finally

 

What authority do you have to change any of this at this time?

 

Here are my suggestions.

 

Go to the DE and say you will do one job, which does he want you to do.

 

If it is the pack then go to the committee chair and ask her for her honest assesment on the health of the unit. Then ask what specifically she plans to do to change the current course, and when will dhe be done. If you do not agree with her decision or methods then go find another pack (fast).

 

If you agree instead to help the special needs unit there is special training and resources available from national. Ask your DE to get you what you need to suceed, if he doesn't know what that is... refuse the offer.

 

I would find a volunteer I liked and trusted, and then join their unit. Work in a healthy unit for a couple years and learn the program. Then take on bigger challenges.

 

Good Luck

BW

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[FScouter 24]

My opinions to your questions:

1. Boys do better in Scouting when their friends are involved.

2. The way to "deal" with leaders that don't want to be in Scouting is to select leaders that do.

3. You are being sensitive, and that is good. Deal with Scouting people that want to be there and want to follow the program.

 

I would never join a failing unit unless the leaders asked for help in fixing it. You can't help people that don't want help.

[jafyfe-bsa 10]

1 If you were the chairman of a pack committee would you rather choose your own committee members or have them inserted by the local District Executive into your committee?

I would take all who should an active commitment to both their child and scouting. So I guess in a way I would rather choose my own Committee Members, but never disrespect the ones I had. That would make me unkind and show a lack of courteousness towards others. I think you understand what I mean. However, my goal to this point has been to be as helpful as possible. By attending Roundtables, organizing my den, helping with membership, getting trained, attending committee meetings, and informing others of all up and coming events in the council and district.

 

2 How would you feel toward that "inserted" committee member?

Welcoming. One of the first things that I have notice in all my years in scouting is that HELP is hard to find. Anyone willing to pull away a couple of hours, once a month and sit with a group of leaders to discuss events would be great; however, I would hope that the person could contribute all time necessary to complete all task.

 

3 Do you think it is right for your DE to ask a new volunteer to help a failing pack, AND help with a special needs troop?

If the duties of the paid officials were not to help failing packs, then what would their duties be? Is it not the job of the District Executives to work alongside the volunteers of their District in developing and maintaining the Scouting programs assigned to them to manage on a day-to-day basis? And if said program was slipping, i.e. Committee Chairs that are telling parents that the Pack is full unless the parent wants to volunteer, the Pack does not solicit boys at a school that the Pack is attached too, causing a groups boys not to join, or other examples, would it not be the job of the paid official to step in and observe what is wrong? How would ignoring such issues benefit the boys we serve? I like to think that every boy is a Cub Scout, he just doesnt know it yet.

 

4 Knowing the pack was failing what did the DE think you could accomplish by putting you in without putting you in-charge?

The DE was actually frustrated that no one had approached the school my children were attached too and open up the opportunity. By doing this there was the hope that some dedicated leaders would join. It was at this meeting that it was expressed that this Pack needed new leaders. Though I could never ideal think for the DE I assumed the DE took that stance that most who work with children take; find more leaders and added to the parental involvement. More boys, more leaders, less likely to fail. And by addressing a school the Pack had refused to address would open the school through new leaders to address such a school.

 

5 What good is recruiting boys into a failing unit if you haven't first addressed why it is failing? Simply having more boys who can quit is not an improvement.

That is a good question. Based upon the number of contacts my wife and I have had with both DEs, it seems that they had no real inside link to the group; therefore, had no idea why it was failing. This applies to my simple answer above. More boys, more leaders, less likely to fail.

 

What authority do you have to change any of this at this time?

Nothing. And that is what frustrates me the most. I can see the problems, I can see why there is failure, and I can see how to help it; however every attempt in helping has seemed to be meet with a road block.

 

As to your suggestion they all seem really helpful. I think the most helpful would be to ask the Chair how she views the health of pack. I think I was searching for away to approach the Chair without stepping on toes, but to get honesty. However I am firm believer that actions speak louder then words. Certain actions taken by Chair and other committee members make me question the health of the pack.

 

How healthy can a Pack be of examples of immorality surface at the front?

 

 

[Cubmaster Mike 10]

If the committee chair is the root of the problem, then speak with the CO about removing the committee chair. If the committee wanted one cubmaster and the chair said no, what gave the chair the authroity to outrule the group?

 

More importantly, it sounds like this committee needs a "talking feather" meeting to air out some differences. Close the doors, get a totem and it goes around the room only once. Each person who has the totem get's to say whatever they want for as long as they want and nobody can interrupt. Everybody must agree to be completely honest and open or it won't work. Once you have had your say and pass the totem, you're done. Based upon the feelings expressed, you can decide which direction you want to head.

 

Rules to follow:

no swearing

attack issues, not people

once everything is out, put your emotions in check and move forward.

 

Good luck

 

CMM

[Bob White 20]

If the DE had a strong relationship with the pack then perhaps he would be able to select committee members. But if that were the case he would have known in greater detail what the problems were and he didn't, and it does not sound like adding an outside member was the solution. In addition the role of selecting leaders, as we have discussed on other threads, is the units responsibility and not the DE's. He crossed the lines of his authority. His job is to get a commissioner (a trained commissioner) in there to help and not to add committee members.

 

As a new volunteer one job is plenty and your DE should know that. Just because you are willing does not mean he should you use to solve all his problems. His one stopping shopping will cause greater damage than he realizes.

 

I appreaciate your openeness to accept outside people to your committee but in practice that is rarely what the mood is, especially with a committee in trouble. Being asked to step in and help with a problem with no authority was unfair of your DE to do to you. This is band-aid problem solving and I believe the DE has used you as the temporary fix.

 

Your are not in a situation where success is likely.

 

 

[Cubmaster Jerry 10]

First, I would agree with Bob, choose to help the Pack or choose to help the Special Needs. Unless you have a ton of time on your hands, just one of those will probably require the majority of your efforts.

 

Second, does the Committee Chair and other committee members see you as a person selected by the DE to come in and "fix" a problem or as a parent wishing to help out that sees a problem? If it is the former, you may have some difficulty getting your ideas across as people tend to get defensive when they are made aware that they are not doing a good job.

 

Third, How does the rest of the committee feel? Do they side with the Chair's feelings toward the "undesirable" leaders? How do they feel about not soliciting for new boys?

 

This all seems to me to have the earmarks of the Committee Chair wishing to run the Pack as she sees fit without understanding what needs to happen, or even cares to have a successful organization.

 

My suggestions would be this:

1. Attend the next committee meeting. Bring up for discussion, as a concerned parent/leader, the failing points in the program and ask for ideas on how to fix them. Speak from the point of view of a trained leader and lean on what you know about what makes a successful program. Again, if they know that the DE picked you to "fix" the problems, you may run into some defensive attitudes. But that should be expected.

 

2. If you still find that the CC is hard nose against following the program guidelines for recruting boys and leaders, running a successful program, not having secret meetings, etc, then I would speak to the Chartered Organizational Rep (COR). The Chartered Organization "owns" the Pack and while the committee effectively elects its own members, they all fall under the Chartered Organization and its Representive. Explain to him/her what the Pack is faced with. They should be able to help. That is if you have an active COR.

 

3. Don't run away. It is all too easy to run away from a failing pack and head for another. While some advocate this, I do not. There are many boys in your Pack that will suffer if that Pack fails. I am not saying that you need to be the Savior, but as you state, more leaders = less chance of failure. Work to establish a program that attracts good leaders.

[FScouter 24]

"Is it not the job of the District Executives to work alongside the volunteers of their District in developing and maintaining the Scouting programs assigned to them to manage on a day-to-day basis?"

 

Yes it is part of the DE's job to guide and assist the volunteers. But one job per volunteer is enough. You cannot excel if you're overloaded. Sadly, the best volunteers in our district are the ones that get asked to take on additional positions. Frustration and early burnout results, followed by resignation.

 

Do one job and do it well.

[jafyfe-bsa 10]

...choose to help the Pack or choose to help the Special Needs.

 

I believe I need to clarify this. The program I volunteered for only lasted 5 weeks and was some sort of starter program passed down from National. In other words, there was no large commitment or stress. However, though I did volunteer, no one else from my pack had. This makes me question their commitment to scouting. Why? Because there schools (both the one that the solicited at and the one they did not) are attached to this school with the special needs students. If your pack was connected with a school, wouldn't you do anything to advertise your pack?

 

Though, Cubmaster Mike, the "talking feather" may help air dirty laundry, I think these people do enough without needing to air anything out. Besides I think it would not be well received by the group. And more so, I think it would be counter productive. Still this is something to keep in mind if other things fail.

 

As too Cubmaster Jerry's question, does the Committee Chair and other committee members see you as a person selected by the DE to come in and "fix" a problem or as a parent wishing to help out that sees a problem? That is the question I currently struggle with. It seems as though half the group welcomes me when I discuss things such as feeder troops, setting up den chiefs from those troops, OA cross over ceremonies, camps the boys can attend, and the simple fact that I have taken it a personal mission to be as well informed as possible about the various different events in the district and council. When I mention several events, most sit there and say, "we tried to do that but it we were too late last year." After my first committee meeting, it became obvious that the groups major problem stem from what seemed like a lack of understanding of how everything works. My first position was to inform the group on Cub Scouting, events, and ceremonies; however, I believe some have viewed this as threat. Someone learning outside of the group seemed out of place by the reactions and response I got. If I had not done what I did, no one would have been informed; as I have mentioned before, no one else from the pack has shown to any roundtables, and I doubt that they had in the past.

 

The COR does not seemed to be informed. This maybe due to the fact the COR does not seem to have been invited to certain functions.

 

[Cubmaster Jerry 10]

So, can I assume that your Pack doesn't do anything (camps, outings, ceremonies, etc)?

 

Since it is painfully obvious that the current committee is either unaware or unmotiviated (or both) to do anything that would improve your program, are you in a situation to take the lead and run? While I am probably the the most hard-nosed person when it comes to keeping within the boundries of your specific responsibilities as a leader, and this is going to sound similar to a coup but something needs to be done. What if you stepped in and said something to the effect of "This is what we need to do to improve the program and I will take the lead on these efforts. I could use some help, if you would like to offer it." Start planning these things that the Pack lacks. Start small at first, a hike or an advancement ceremony at the Pack Meeting (is that CM job still available?) You may find that you have a small group that will follow you but when the program improves, others will follow. Hopefully the current committee's efforts is simply more of a lack of effort that needs a spark rather than an all out defense against what is proven to be best for an organization.

 

As far as encouraging the leaders to follow you, I have a couple of suggestions:

 

1. Assign (ask) a few leaders that you can depend on to do something such as plan the hike, go to the scout shop for you, help out with a Pack meeting.

 

2. Depending on your Pack's financial situation, make a recommendation that the Pack pays for all Basic leader training. This will amount to about $20 per leader (book included).

 

3. Also, depending on your financial situation, make a recommendation that the Pack pay for a portion of a registered leader's son's summer camp if they participate in X% of scheduled Pack events. Make being fully trained and attending X number of roundtables part of that requirement.

 

Depending on your standing within the committee and how receptive the committee as a whole is, these things may prove difficult but hopefully it gives you a start.

 

Don't forget that Fall Recruitment rally is right around the corner (we call it School Night for Scouting in my area). This is organized and scheduled by your Council, not the committee. Get with your DE to determine when and where it will take place for your Pack.

 

Also, regarding outside assistance for your Pack's issues. As was mentioned before, get your COR involved. Hopefully, just because he/she hasn't been around is only a result of not being asked and not because they are the COR in title only. Also, your Unit Commissioner should be a good point of contact for help (before the DE). That is their job to work with Packs to make sure the program is running smoothly.

 

Don't give up and good luck!!

Jerry