Philmont crews - ideas on how to divide up

[Mike F]

Hi, gang!

I always get such great ideas and insights from y'all, so here's another one without a clear right or wrong answer.

 

I'm leading group of 3 crews to Philmont this summer. About 1/3 are age 16-17, a 1/3 age 15, and a 1/3 age 14. About 7 of the guys have high-adventure experience from our Boundary Waters trip last summer.

 

I see several options for splitting the guys into crews:

 

1. Observe how they naturally group up during our first shakedown hiking campout this weekend and let the crews form on their own - adjusting numbers as needed.

 

2. Try to group them by physical ability and skill. This would give the big, strong guys the opportunity to go for one of the strenuous treks if that's what they decide they want to do. And would allow the smaller guys to have a trek that fits better with their current age and capability.

 

3. Intentionally group them to mix size and skill so the stronger can help out the weaker.

 

We have already talked about this some. Adult advisors have mixed opinions. Older boys have stated strong preference for being grouped together, but the younger guys want the older ones there to help them out. I have always assumed skill-based groups in the past.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

-mike

 

[eisely]

I would probably be inclined to adopt number 1 followed by number 2. If you mix ages and abilities it will be important to emphasize that everybody is going to have a great time regardless of how the crews are organized.

[purcelce]

Let the boys decide. Adults have no vote.

Advisors are on "vacation" out at Philmont.

 

When I was out there last summer our crew got "lost" three times on the first day. I could have grabbed the map from the crew leader and taken over, but I stood around and looked the trees and flowers. Actually had a nice long conversation with our ranger while we were hiking the wrong trail.

 

The boys learned how to solve a problem on their own, and I learned how to keep my mouth shut.(This message has been edited by purcelce)

[EagleInKY]

The year we had two crews, we divided by ability. The stronger crew did a northern country trip over several peaks (including Baldy, of course). The second crew hit the southern country on an entry-level trek. We met up on day 9 along the Tooth of Time ridge. We then hiked into base camp as one big crew, It was a great experience for all. (Especially me, since my dad and brother were on the 2nd crew).

 

BTW, all crews get lost the first day. It's part of the plan.

[purcelce]

EagleinKY wrote "BTW, all crews get lost the first day. It's part of the plan."

 

When I went as a youth in 1980 we didn't get lost the first day...It was the 4th day

 

 

[EagleInKY]

I went in 80, 82 and 84. The third time out, we got lost on the first day. I was talking to the ranger later and asked if that was planned, he just smiled and said "Nah, we wouldn't do anything like that". The majority of people I've talked to over the years have had the same experience. It won't always happen, but it's a chance to demonstrate to the boys the importance of paying attention and working together.

 

The ranger usually has another surprise the first night, but I won't spoil that for you.

[Proud Eagle]

I seem to recal the ranger having several "suprises" such as the use of the yum-yum bag. Though I think I know what the actual suprise being refrenced is. However you won't get it if there is a dry spell.

 

I would group crews according to what level of trek they want to do. Find out if they want to do 50 miles over relatively flat land, or 80 over the mountains. Either that or let them make a choice of what crew to belong to, and then choose how strenous of a trek to do. However, that causes a problem, if one of the guys in a crew (or a couple) doesn't want to do a difficult trek and isn't up to it, but everyone else does want to do the hard trek. So I would suggest having each person choose (after explaining the level of difficulty and the fitness level required) how difficult of a trek they want to go on. (These choices should be reviewed to make certain they are realistic. The overweight, small, inexperienced 14 y/o shouldn't be doing an advanced trek.) Group them according to difficulty chosen and then allow them to modify the groups as they see fit. Once the groups are fixed have each crew pick its own trek.

 

Another possibility would be to group them according to activities they want to do during the trek. (Mt.Baldy, Tooth of Time, burrow racing, gold panning, etc.)

 

I don't really think there is one perfect way of doing things. In the end everyone will have to compromise some. They won't be able to have all their friends, the difficulty level they want, and all of the activities they prefer. At some point they are going to have to choose what is most important to them.

[Mike F]

Proud Eagle and others,

We think alike -- grouping by skill and interest, and giving the scouts a major input, has always worked well in the past.

What we have going on now is a push within troop to get wider ranges of ages grouped together in patrols and creating an understanding that part of the responsibility of the older guys is to help out the younger. This philosophy is being transferred to the Philmont crew selection. I'm strongly inclined to give the guys a break and let them group up as they'd like. This is clearly what the older guys want to do, but the younger/smaller ones (and their parents) are leading the cry to force us to create 3 equal crews with mixed ages/skills.

 

Previous replies to this thread supported options other than mixing, but we haven't heard from anybody who used a mix. Has anyone intentionally mixed them up? Would you do it again? What were the problems? What were the benefits?

 

Although they didn't have a choice, we could gain insights from anyone who took a single crew to Philmont which consisted of scouts age 14 - 17.

 

BTW - We just got back from our first shakedown trip. Left home early Saturday, drove to state park, hiked 8 mile loop around a lake, and camped by cars. About half had never done any backpacking. It was cold and there were some problems, but the guys had a great start. For temporary crews, we picked 6 of our most experienced guys and told them to figure out who would serve as the weekend Crew Chiefs and Assistants. We them lined the rest of them up by height and had them number off 1-2-3-1-2-3... All the 1's in crew 1, etc. We stopped for training activities during the day and the older boys were coaching the less-experienced. But the older boys were clearly frustrated by the end.

(NOTE: We told them these crews were for the weekend only. After this first excursion to give everybody their initial introduction, we'll be breaking up into permanent crews and all future activities will be done by Philmont crews.)

 

It was a cold and muddy weekend, but we're all getting excited. Sure helped to stop near the cars where some Dutch ovens and cobbler fixin's were stashed!

 

Thanks again for your insights!