Advancement Credit - Hiking & Backpacking

[acco40]

Troop goes on an outing where the participants arrive at a camp site by car and pitch their tents. Next morning get up, pack their tents, bed rolls, food, camp stoves etc. into their backpacks and travel eleven miles, eat their meals on the trail, put up their tents, and spend the night. Next morning arise, cook breakfast, pack up, travel another seven miles and again eat on trail, put up their tents, and spend the night. Next morning eat, pack their backpacks, travel five miles and then get picked up to return home.

 

For the above outing I "credit" the boys with (all various ranks) three nights of tent camping and 23 miles of backpacking. Two months later a parent "corrects" me and said I should have credited his son with 23 miles of hiking.

 

Okay, it's obvious the Scouts backpacked 23 miles. I told the parent, it never seems to be the Scout who questions anything, I could credit his son with 23 miles of hiking if he wishes instead of backpacking. Should I credit the Scout with 23 miles of hiking and backpacking or should I credit the Scout with 23 miles of hiking or backpacking (Scout's choice) or just keep it simple and credit them with backpacking.

 

Not to be blunt, but I'm not really interested in opinions but in the BSA position. Because the backpacking and hiking are really merit badge type requirements, it really is the MBC call but as a Scoutmaster who uses Troopmaster, should I enter the event as a backpacking event, hiking event or as two separate simultaneous events (thus giving credit for both)?

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[CA_Scouter]

OR

 

[ljnrsu]

Acco40, for hiking MB the hiking requirements are:

req 5. Take five hikes, each on a different day, and each of at least ten continuous miles. Prepare a hike plan for each hike.*

req 6. Take a hike of 20 continuous miles in one day following a hike plan you have prepared.*

*The hikes in requirements 5 and 6 can be used in fulfilling Second Class Rank (2a) and First Class Rank (3) rank requirements, but only if Hiking merit badge requirements 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been completed to the satisfaction of your counselor. The hikes of requirements 5 and 6 cannot be used to fulfill requirements of other merit badges.

 

For backpacking the hiking req is:

req 10. Using Leave No Trace principles, participate in at least three backpacking treks of at least three days each and at least 15 miles each, and using at least two different campsites on each trek. Carry everything you will need throughout the trek.

 

As a MBC for both backpacking and hiking MB the Scouts can get credit for either a 10 mile hike or credit for a backpacking trek but not both.

 

Hope this helps.

[Beavah]

Yah, they're not "merit badge type requirements", eh? They're Merit Badge requirements.

 

The BSA position would be that unless you are that boy's MB counselor for either backpacking or hiking, you may not approve those requirements. So you may not "credit" the boy with anything, beyond the T-2-1 requirements he fulfilled in the trek.

 

Using Troopmaster (or a pen and paper, or a website...) doesn't make you the MB counselor for those badges, eh? Best not to mix up the rules for decidin' on advancement with a tool for recording advancement.

 

Otherwise, ljnrsu's got the right of it, eh? The boy can use day 2 for one of the 10 mile hikes for Hiking MB, provided that boy himself prepared a hike plan for the hike beforehand, and provided that the boy himself wrote the required after-hike report. OR, the boy can use the three day trek as one of his short backpacking treks for Backpacking MB, provided he hiked and camped in accord with LNT principles for your area. Not both. And da respective MB counselors can review those expectations when the lad makes an appointment to meet with them, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[acco40]

Beavah, have you used TroopMaster? When you enter an "activity" be it a COH, troop meeting, camping, etc. you can enter backpacking or hiking as the activity. What is entered really doesn't decide if MBC requirements are met or not.

 

As I stated in my original post, it really is the MBCs call, I realize that.

 

Again, thanks CA_Scouter & ljnrsu.

[Beavah]

Nah, I'm not a TroopMaster user, so maybe I'm just confused.

 

If TroopMaster has a field that you can enter to tag an event as hiking or backpackin' or fishing or whatnot, that has nothing to do with the BSA or advancement, eh? That's just record keeping for the unit or the boy that says "I've been on 12 hiking trips" or "the troop has run 20 backpacking trips in the last two years" or somesuch.

 

So why would you be interested in "the BSA position" on somethin' like that? The BSA has no position on how to enter extra fields in a non-BSA piece of software. Why would we? It would be entirely up to the "opinion" of the troop in terms of what yeh were interested in recording.

 

So in that case, I'm not sure what yeh mean by "giving credit", eh? Unless you decide to have an in-troop award for boys who have 100 days of hiking or somesuch. In that case, yeh can give credit however you want to, eh? It's your rules and your award, not the BSA's.

 

But if you're talkin' about the BSA's position, as you mention, we only have a position about da BSA's awards. And for those, only the MBC can "give credit."

 

Beavah

 

[Frank17]

Funny, but I just got a question from our database administrator last night on this issue. Since Troopmaster will not double credit trips: i.e.- They must be solely labeled as camping OR backpacking OR hiking, he wanted to know how to credit trips. As a courtesy, we use Troopmaster to record each scouts accomplishments so they have a record. I told him to capture that camping nights so they could use it to document their work for the Camping MB, which you must have for Eagle. The other info is captured in the trip description field if they need oit to document hiking or backpacking. Regardless, it is used as a tool to help the scout to keep track of the trip he went on so as to achieve requirements for MBs. It is up to the scout to present this info to their MB counselor. The MB counselor then has to decide whether to accept it or not. Most allow double counting of camping with hiking / backpacking, but will not double count backpacking and hiking together. You can also use backpacking as hiking credit but not the other way around.

[kenk]

Big TM fan here.

 

You CAN enter the same activity as "combined" activities in TM.

 

For example, a campout can also be a service event. You'd just create the first event and then press the Combined button at the bottom of the Edit/Review dialog box. This generates a new activity for which you'd select the Service type and enter the number of hours expected.

 

You could create two separate TM activities - one with a Camping type and another with a Hiking type.

 

Start a new activity. Select the Camping type with Backpacking box checked, Enter the number of nights and other details, then press the Combined button. The Type field will be highlighted. Change the Type to Hiking, enter the number of miles, the other details as appropriate, and then press OK. You will have created two activities - one Camping and another Hiking. I would recommend that for ONE of those - probably the Hiking - you uncheck the "Include on Calendar" checkbox.

 

TroopMaster's Help documentation says:

 

"If the activity was a campout or a hike, a "Backpacking" checkbox is available: This item is used to generate the Backpacking Summary report (para 12.1e) and when determining O/A Eligibility (para 12.9c). Backpacking should always be entered as a both a camp and a hike."

 

Note the last sentence.

 

If you run the Activities by Type report with and then without the "Include backpacking only" option checked, you can tell which hiking miles are "pure hiking" and which are backpacking.

 

If you run the Individual Participation report, select the Scout, and then select type Hiking, the output will add a "Backpacking Trip" note for those trips.