AoL/Scout

[Lisabob 13]

Actually Bob, I believe that this has changed in recent years, and that "Scout" is now considered the first official rank in boy scouting. I can't provide a citation off the top of my head for this though - others can help out here?

 

I am in agreement with those who say that earning AoL does not equate with automatically handing a kid a Scout badge. Even if the kids did all of the AoL requirements, I still think that there's benefit in doing them in the troop right at the start of their boy scouting careers. For one thing it can provide a bit of a bonding opportunity for new scouts. For another it helps introduce new scouts to how things are done in the troop. And for a third, a brand new scout who is nervous about whether he can "do" boy scouting will get a huge boost out of earning that first badge very early on. I understand Oak's take on "seamless transition" but I kind of think earning the badge as a bona-fide boy scout actually helps make that transition more seamless. It just sets a boy off on the right footing IMO. Philosophical difference I guess.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, revision cycles are always a bit odd, eh? Outdoorsman now has "explain the LNT Frontcountry rules" while Scout still lists the Outdoor Code, eh? That, and the YP pamphlets for the two programs are age-appropriate. That's gettin' a bit picky.

 

I reckon da Boy Scout Handbook states the intent clearly, eh?

 

A graduating Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light Award has completed the Boy Scout joining requirements. With the approval of his Scoutmaster, he will receive the Boy Scout badge upon joining the troop.

 

Now that doesn't mean that a troop can't or shouldn't do what Lisa'bob suggests, if it works for them and the kids they serve. A lot of troops do somethin' similar, perhaps for similar reasons. But it is adding to what is necessary.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Oak Tree 15]

Lisa,

 

I'm looking at the 2006 printing of the Advancement Committee Guide Policies and Procedures. The quote from there is "There shall be the following ranks in Boy Scouting: Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle." Now, please note that it kills me not to support you in a disagreement with Bob, but it doesn't look like Scout is officially a rank.

 

Not that it is at all apparent what that means... If Scout is not a rank, but is just a patch that you earn by completing some requirements, including a Scoutmaster conference, then it's not clear to me what the distinction is. It looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck, but I guess it's just a coot.

 

The ACG P&P is, of course, correct, except as has been pointed out recently, whenever it is wrong. But I think it's right on this one. Maybe there's a new edition since 2006. It's hard to keep up with all the literature.

 

I don't know that there's much of a philosophical disagreement here. I never really thought that much about it. The book says that the boy will receive the Boy Scout badge, so we give it to him. The book also says, "with the approval of the Scoutmaster", so I'm ok with your troop's tradition of having the Scoutmaster check out that the new boys know the requirements before getting the badge.

[Bob White 20]

Hi LisaBob,

No it has not changed at all, the BSA is very clear about this in several advancement resources and in training. Tenderfoot is the first rank. The Scout Badge is not a rank, and it never has been, it is a membership badge.

 

And yes once the Scout JOINS a troop the SCOUTMASTER can determine if he has earned the Badge. But two things have to happen that are not a part of the AOL requirements. One is, he first has to JOIN the troop, and the second is his parents must go through the "How to protect your children from child abuse." pull-out section of the Boy Scout Handbook. Neither of those is covered in the requirenments for Arrow of Light.

 

If the Scout has completed the AOL and then joined the troop prior to the ceremony it would seem fine to present the Scout Badge, but it needs to be approved by the Scoutmnaster of the troop he joined before the pack can make it a part of their ceremony. Not presenting the Scout badge at the crossover does not make the trannsition any less "seamless".

 

Think of the number of posters who seem perfectly comfortable taking a year to teach the tenderfoot skills, why worry about getting him the Scout Badge at the last pack meeting rather than the first Troop meeting?

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

I will have to check on the rank business - several people who are involved with advancement and ought to know what they're talking about in our district and council have made a big deal about "scout" becoming a bona fide "rank" in the last year or so. I am willing to believe they could be wrong, I just haven't had time (or reason, really) to check their claim on this front.

 

At any rate I am inclined to agree that the exact difference (is it a rank, or isn't it?) isn't really that big a deal. What's more important is whether or not a troop has a solid program that provides a scout with the opportunities for advancement, if he so desires.

 

 

[Oak Tree 15]

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. I haven't heard anything similar in my district, but I suppose it's possible. Still, when I go look at the current requirements (2008 requirements book) and look at the national web site, I see no indication that Scout is now a rank. There are any number of places where they could have worded it that way, but they seem to go out of their way to avoid calling Scout a rank.

 

I did find this page where they seem to inadventently include Scout as a rank, but I doubt that it would be considered actual evidence. http://www.scouting.org/media/identity/3.aspx

[Bob White 20]

There is a significant and fairly obvious difference between the requirements of the Scout Badge and the requirements for achieving Scout Ranks.

 

The first three Ranks of Scouting, Tenderfoot 1st and 2nd Class are based on basic outdoor skills, health skills, citizenship.

 

The next three ranks are based on Merit badges, Leadership and Citizenship.

 

Combined the ranks progress scouts through the three aims of Scouting Character, Citizenship, and Fitness.

 

The requirements of the Scout Badge do none of those things. It is a quiz on some basic program knowledge, the salute, the emblem, the handshake, the stated vales of the Oath. Law, Motto, Slogan. It is an orientation on Boy Scouting and does not address any of the Aims of Scouting. That is why it is a membership badge only and not a Rank.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

And yes once the Scout JOINS a troop the SCOUTMASTER can determine if he has earned the Badge.

 

Yah, I agree with all of what BobWhite says, except perhaps for this little bit, which I reckon he just mistyped.

 

The Scout Badge is a badge of membership. If the boy has joined a troop, then he has earned the Scout badge. The requirements for the Scout badge are the joining requirements. But the SM, on behalf of the CO, can choose to reject the application of any boy. It's not that the SM determines whether he's earned the badge, it's that the SM determines whether he can join the troop (say, for example, if a CO only wants children of its own members in the program).

 

There's a reason for this, eh? The Scout badge requirements are conditions for membership... especially "understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath and Law". If yeh don't meet the "Scout Badge Requirements" you cannot be a member. And the SM should be rejecting applications from lads who don't meet the joining requirements.

 

Of course, practically what has happened almost everywhere is what Lisa'bob describes, eh? SM's sign and submit applications before a boy has completed all the joining requirements, and then view the Scout Badge as a first rank. This creates the illusion that all that's required to join Boy Scouting is to submit an application, which we all know isn't true.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Scouting Mom 10]

"Actually that is incorrect. The boy is not a Boy Scout until AFTER the application and money has been sent to the council office and processed. I would often accept an application from a Webelos family prior to the scout crossing over and would hold it until after the scout crossed. Think of it as a "letter of intent". Once the Scout received the AoL I would send the application to the office."

 

Part of my job with the unit is accepting applications and turning them into council. Once an application is complete and accepted by the unit, the boy is covered by the insurance and is eligible to participate in scout events. If you are holding onto the applications for whatever reason and it is understood by the scout that you cannot or have not officially accept the application until he has his AOL, is 11, finished 5th grade or whatever, then your unit has not accepted the application...which is why I added that phrase to my original post. What if council doesn't process the application right away, what if a unit leader misplaces it? The boy isn't being penalized for that.

 

Besides having been told this before, I watched this policy in action at Cub Scout Day Camp last year. There were several boys who were registered for camp for whom council had not processed applications. This is the only time I know of where they actually cross referenced membership to participation in a Scouting event. They contacted the units the boy claimed to be a member of and tracked down the original applications which had either not been turned it because the scouts were new, had been misplaced by the unit or had been misplaced by the council, all the while giving the boy the benefit of the doubt, but they did backdate membership to the date it was originally turned in.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

"Once an application is complete and accepted by the unit, the boy is covered by the insurance and is eligible to participate in scout events."

 

That is incorrect. if you check with your local scout professional you will find that any youth who is a potential recruit can participate in a troop event and has the same accident insurance coverage as a registered member. You do not have to have a registration in hand or at the office for him to be covered by the BSA accident insurance.