The advancement prevention committee

[EO2(SCW)Ploense 10]

Bob White,

 

I understand what you are saying is the official policy. I wish my son had known then what you state now. He would have planned accordingly.

 

 

To all who have comments about this thread. I think the thing that really gets me "wrapped around the axle" is that BSA adult leaders promised my son and I the aforementioned support and assitance. With a few exceptions that support failed to appear. After all the SM and committee did read the plan and it was not the first time in troop history an eagle project was done with troop equipment in the plan. And yes, in the presence of no returned phone calls, my son did line up a "B" plan. It worked. Perhaps if the man who became SM did so when the troop was not in disarray because the last three SM's quit. His volunteering/voting into office came to pass when I was in country and had little chance to voice a counter opinion. It was kind of like a scene in "Full Metal Jacket" where Cowboy becomes squad leader because all the better men were killed.

 

As far as leadership goes...it may be policy that allows an SM to stay at home when an Eagle project is underway; however, as a leader I want to know what my squad is doing. The two facets of any mission are its accomplishment and the welfare of those working. I cannot see accomplishing the leaders role by a "non-presence". It seems counter-intuitive. Or perhaps put another way, A good leader doesn't have to be there, he should want to be there.

 

The bottom line... I was wondering if I was wrong for thinking my son was jerked around unnecessisarily. Is this just a symptom of the clanish community in which the troop is based? Or are the circumstances I described something indicitave of a larger trend?

 

I say again, there was much more than went on. This little ordeal was the tip of the iceberg.

 

Thanks again for your time and input.

Regards,

Carl

 

PS How many of you would let your wife and son be shouted down by an adult leader and do nothing?

[FireKat 10]

I was hoping I was not alone in my thinking that one man's actions and local petty politics were the exception not the rule in scouting. Oh how I wish that were true

We need to do our best to see that good people help train our youth.  Many time some of the adults are in it only for what they or their family can get out of it. I think we all have experenced some of these. They are fustrating to try to work with but in the long run it is best to try to work with them peacefully and do our best to continue to help all the kids. Fan their egos and find things for them that may keep them busy and happy. In the fire service we called these 'glory hounds'. They always wanted the hose and tried to get their picture in the paper. They disappeared when the real work of firefighting started - the cleanup - no glory in that. I learned (almost the hard way) that when things get tough, they are the first to 'rabbit'. We must stand our ground. Wait for the others to rabbit and go pose for pictures We will quietly go about cleaning up.

I hate politics..........do you know the define it?

Poly - many

tic (tick) - a small blood-sucking insect.  

[mk9750 11]

First, I too want to welcome you.

 

Second, you have received some very good advice here from all. There is not one comment here with which I can find fault.

 

Third, Congratulations to your son. He has acheived a high honor. Doing so with extra obstacles only makes the achievement sweeter.

 

Fourth, I too want to comment on the SM attending. We found the same problem others found - If Scouts were involved helping the Eagle Candidate, they often turned to one of the uniformed leaders, or slightly better, the SPL, for guidance and direction. So we generally have avoided attending Eagle Service projects.

 

We also have begun counseling Eagle candidates that their project should be approached like any project - A school project, or one for work. A goal is identified. A plan is developed to meet the goal. It is this plan that should be described in the workbook. The plan should identify all of the resources expected to be needed - Labor, including specific skills, materials, time, money, work space, and tools. The plan should address how each of these resources will be obtained and utilized. One of the major issues we have been attempting to quell is the tendency for the guys in our Troop to make broadcast invitations for help for their project. We are attempting to get guys to identify in their plan that they need, for example, 7 Scouts for 6 hours, plus 3 adults who can lift heavier objects than the Scouts, and Mr. Jones, who knows how to cut bird's mouths into rafters. And then have the Eagle Candidate approach the specific people he has identified as a needed resource. We feel that this is a far better demonstration of leadership than simply announcing at circle up at the end of the meeting "Hey guys, my Eagle project is this Saturday, and if you want pizza, show up".

 

In trying to steer our guys in this direction, we find that it is unusual (not rare, but unusual) to have an Eagle candidate plan to need our SM as a resource. Same with me (anything that requires construction, a Scout would be far better off WITHOUT me there!).

 

We have been steering guys in this direction for close to two years now. That includes a slew of 8 Eagles in 2007. That was an big abheration, definately not the norm. All these guys crossed over together, and did a great job supporting each other throughout their Scout careers.

 

This results in a preparation effort that is much more detailed, but a better effort at demonstrating leadership. And each Scout who has used this method has given positive feedback about the life lessons he has learned during the process.

 

Again EO2, welcome and congratulations. If your son's SM didn't live up to his end of the bargain with your son, I am sorry. But the adversity probably beneifitted your son in the long run.

 

Mark

[ScoutNut 147]

I am a bit perplexed over what you want to accomplish here.

 

Is this simply a rant about what happened to you?

 

Are you planning on doing something about the leadership in the Troop?

 

From what I understand from your postings, your son achieved Eagle and both you and he are no longer with this particular Troop.

 

From what you have posted, yes, your son was in a rather dysfunctional Troop. No, dysfunctional Troops\Packs\Crews\etc, are NOT the "norm", but they do exist. Usually they do not exist for very long.

 

As others have said, I do not see the need to go over, and over, all of the bad things that happened to you and your family with this Troop. Yes, they were bad, but they are water under the dam so to speak and are over.

 

Move on and continue your Scouting experience in a functional BSA unit.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

I think EO2 is just trying to understand how these kinds of things happen. They happen when units do not choose quality leaders and when quality training does not take place or is not attended.

 

Had the committee been more diligent in their leadership selection and if they themselves were trained, in all likelyhood most of this incident would have been avoided.

 

[Beavah 205]

I'm not sure I'm seeing any lack of trainin' here. As reported, siftin' through EO2's strong feelings, the committees seem to have done their job of reviewing the project before it began. The only awkward moment seems to have been the change of meeting times, which sometimes happens with adult schedules. I'd view this as a youth issue - if you've got a meeting with the committee on Sunday at 3, Sunday after church probably isn't the time to be writin' the report. And if you're not ready for Saturday, just say you're not ready and can't do it then. I'm wondering if there was some age/date pressure that was pushin' the group to try to rush the review to give the boy enough time to work the project.

 

EO2, I understand your frustration, especially bein' away from your family doin' our nation's work. I certainly can understand bein' mightily ticked off at actions or words by the SM that you thought were not helpful or appropriate. But it sounds like the man was "conscripted" for the job on short notice, eh? As BobWhite suggests, sometimes the only available warm body ain't the right guy for the job - but he's the only available warm body.

 

Bob's right in other ways, too, eh? The Eagle project was your son's, not the SM's. Most troops don't have the SM around for projects unless the boy requests it (well in advance, and only if the SM is available), or to pop by briefly perhaps. It was your son's time to "solo" and lead on his own, with no "backup." That's why committees take some time lookin' over the project concept and plans. It might feel like a "grilling" I suppose, but those folks are the boy's friends, eh? They're trying to help him have his plans in place so that he can succeed when he's left to lead on his own.

 

Sounds like he did fine, and I expect his overcoming of challenges figured prominently in the discussion his Eagle Board of Review had.

 

Let it go, mate. The SM has moved on. Celebrate your son's great accomplishment!

 

And my thanks to you and your family for your sacrifices on behalf of our country. Give your fine lad a Scout Salute from da Northern Midwest, eh?

 

Beavah