Davej775

Sadly, I work with a 'Troop A.' A long time ago on this very forum was a list of things that leaders of failing troops might say. One I've never forgotten was something referring to the abundance of Eagles the troop had. Our Former S/M consistantly repeated this as does out new S/M,who turns a deaf ear to my pleas to do otherwise and rethink our mission of 'All Scouts First class.' Currently, we have 3 active Scouts, down from 5 last year(and meeting once per month, no camping either.) The year prior boasted 15 Scouts with 8 Eagles, meeting every week, camping every month.

Along with everything else said here, clearly its the adult leadership setting the tone and being blind to the fact that as also written above repeating the same errors until finally , nobody shows up and the leadership won't have a clue! The soon to be a troop of 1(one), Dave J775!

Its a hot potatoe all right! Join Laurie and me over here in the corner tying knots. Problems, solutions: there's a knot for every occasion and they work! Dave J!

This is an interesting thread and after reading all that's here I can't find any iron clad guarentee that any discussion by a Scout leader with a group of Scouts won't lead, possibly, to some charge of inpropriety by a parent somewhere, or a Scout being withdrawn from the troop by a parent. If you got written permission from most of the parents to discuss sex, what do you do with the Scouts without that permission slip? Now, how do they feel being excluded?

I haven't seen the merit badgebook recently, but I don't recall any merit badge for sex education.

This would be the path to take for this subject.

A Scout is Trustworty, Courtious, and Brave. This ought to cover dealing with the opposite sex. I put Brave as it takes this quality to stand up to inclinations like hormones screaming for passion when the opportunity and ability to indulge in sex are present.

Unless I was a licensed therapist, and I'm not, I would redirect all those questions back to the parents and their religious leaders.

I wish we could handle this subject with as much security and directness as we handle the knowledge of Knots and tying them.

All knotted up over this I remain....Dave J!

I'm a Corrections Officer in Delaware. Starting my 15th year in January. If anyone has done hard time you know what I do! And I bet nobody in this reading audience has! Lets keep it that way! ..Dave J!

I'll be 60 this coming February! I wore an "I like Ike" pin for my parents on my Cub Scout uniform. I still have my Bobcat Pin which really had a pin on the back not a push tack. Anyway, I'm still crawling around on all fours in and out of my tent and yes, it isn't so easy anymore. My left shoulder is going so handling a full dutch oven with just that arm is getting tough, also. Let me add this: every camp out is a new experience, yet only another moment extended from the first as a Scout back in '56. I've given up Scuba Diving, ice skating, roller skating, skiing, and running. Pray I don't have to give up Scouting! 'Ole Dave J!

The charter organization of our troop pays all the fees for all troop members, youth and adult. As the Scout program is the youth program for the church, they felt it was the church's obligation as the tithe covers contributions. As an outsider of that particular church, I should pay mine and my son's costs but they insisted they pick that up too. I replaced the troop trailer for the troop, and we Scout leaders bring all the staples for the campouts and share that cost among ourselves.

I have argued the point about Scout dues, basing my arguements on the wealth of knowledge I pick up on these forums, especially the point of Scouts managing their own money to having that feeling of investing in the troop. None of it flew. As a result we have a poor showing at meetings in general; and I believe its the non-investment point I just referred to.

Perhaps this thread might be called " To fee or not to fee. That is the question"

yours in Scouting, Dave J! ASM

I'm coming in on this thread very late, too. I served '67-'69 in the Marines and followed that up with 12 years in active reserves, G/2/25th Marines, mostly.

Packsaddle's reply just came up so I guess we're both on here at the same time, in real time. However, the time stamp is 6:45 p.m. today, which puts Packsaddle somewhere in Europe?, 8 hours after est at 10:00 am here on the Eastern Seabord in DE. Interesting, though off the point.

Anyway, I was referring to Packsaddle's comment of 10/24 with that marshmellow comment.

The Baseball imagery was a reference to the fine line we are trying to define here. In reality if you're in possession of a baseball bat in your car, and not obviously in route to a game, you are in possession of a deadly weapon in most police jurisdictions. You might as well carry a .44 as it's the same charge.

F Scouter has in the most recent post, again as in the previous, defined the situation and I agree with premise and the way its presented.

I disagree with deleting the term "value." In math we describe numeric value with positive and negative representation. Character value is you either have it or you don't and I add, here: a negative value as in math. If an individual doesn't share our values we comment, 'they have no values.' or 'they have BAD values'

Somewhere society being p.c. or imbellishing the 'ego feel good' approach in parenting i.e "your a good boy, you just did a bad thing," will forgoes any attempt to discover why the act was done; so that a negative value can found and be addressed. We learn values from those around us. If we grow up in an environnment where shooting people is o.k., for example you're a Hatfield or a McCoy, why unless taught otherwise, you'll embrace that value as o.k. while the rest of civilized society will say you had bad values, or no value. Note the Romans, oh so civilized, sent thousands to their death in glatorial spectacles for the mere amusement of their citizens. Today we go to the movies and can see the same gore for $7.00 or $5.00 at the matinee. Values vary according to the society. F Scouter pointed out we don't value killing people and we all agree. Squirt GUN fights paintball GUNs..'a rose by any other name is still a rose,' Gertrude Stein.

I guess the object of the games we play and the status of those who don't win i.e. are out, dead, disqualified, loser, etc. would define our stamp of appropriate activity. Something to think about! In Scouting, I remain DAve J!

If teamwork, trust, sportsmanship, friendlyness, cheerfulness, bravery, and loyality to the team are elements to the game; and the Scout exercizes these qualities, then the spitit of Scouting has been reinforced. The positive qualities of the Scouting movement are there for the Scout to draw on in any situation if we as leaders have done our job. Situations are dynamic, ever changing; values are not. If we're at all reverent, we look for the good in anything. The opportunity to exercize the Scout Law is everywhere, and we should recognize that and live it, embracing the law everyday.

Scouting is about overcoming challenges. Taking Scouts to paintball and trusting them to keep that mask on is the challenge here. I see no difference squrting a soap container and a squirt gun. If we employ micmic actions in ecery sport, what can we assume from baseball with that violent activity with that bat on that poor unsuspecting ball? Tagging a man out? That giant marshmellow is coming! Yikes!! Dave J running for cover!

I played cops and robbers as a kid and I grew up to be a Constible of Peace(COP). I'm a Correction Officer in a prison. I'd like to think of myself as a decent ASM. After reading this entire thread I wonder, now, if my whole being is politically incorrect to be working with today's youth. I'm a Former Marine (which had nothing to do with being a former Scout.) Today's Scout uniform is almost identical to the Marine class 'A' and very unlike my Scout uniform of the 50's, so perhaps that needs to be changed. We as Scouts go camping, have patrols, have a bugler play taps at night and revelle in the morning. Flag ceremony is very formal. All I have described is very militaristic. How about the Declaration of Independence, the Liberty Bell, all American history is replete with the subject of war, armys, navys, etc. Scouting Magazine advertizes camping on the Lexington, thats the USS Lexington, a war ship! There's another war ship advertized for camping, too. (I'm at work and don't have the magazine in front of me.)

To be politically correct, and push the military under the rug along with squirt guns, and paintball guns because they imply or mimic war and battle, how can the BSA continue to have these ads in Scouting magazines, tolerate former vetrans of any branch of service as leaders, such as myself, and also continue to camp in the woods as military troops do?

If paintball was restricted because 'you could put an eye out with that thing' I'm behind you 100%. But that's not what I've read here. Pretty soon its going to be politically/socially bad to run faster than someone else, swim better than someone else, be smarter than....well, you get the point. I do not want my son to continue in a program which appears to shed a bad light on out History as a Country filled with military history. Without war we wouldn't have had a country. I've seen Scouts in Phildadelphia, the hotbed of revolt in the 1800's, seen Scout Troops at Fort Ticondroga and Fort William Henry. Perhaps these field trips are poor choices and will be off limits (oops! a military term....)to Scouts in the future.

Aside from war implications I want to add that just plain camping is risky with ticks, recluse spiders, and that everpresent element of fire at the campsite, the campfire. Ghost stories cause nightmares.... as real as this whole subject has been. I think the policy of anti-military is a bit overboard. Political correctness need not be addressed. The BSA showed that 2 years ago with leadership selection requirements. Enough said, I remain, Dave J775!

The Cracker Barrels we've had here in Delmarva Council are just as Bob58 described. Very important last minute information is dispensed and last minute details are ironed out. Its perhaps the most important general meeting of the Campooree event. Refreshments have spanned the scale from a few crackers and cool-aid to Multi selections of cheeses, deli meats, varieties of breads and spreads, soda, juice, and the obligatory hot chocolate. What a surprise to find how different 'cracker barrels' are through out Scouting via this board! DaveJ775!

I just looked up Narcissistic personality and wow, this does seem to fit. For a comparison I also checked with the Psychopathic Personality. here's the sites for you to look at:

www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/howto.html

www.oregoncounceling.org/Handouts/PsychopathicPersonality.html

As a future Scoutmaster, you will need all the information you can get to be able to get the most and give the most to your future Scouts. I don't know at this if the Scouts offer any merit badge for this field of psychology. If they do, you're halfway there. You're dealing with a perfect field experment! Please read these two sites; hope the link works! best to you in Scouting, Dave J775!

What you need to do is look up 'psychopathic/ sociopathic personalities.' You'll see that everything you're dealing with here, is there in the discription. You'll also learn that no amount of cajoling, allowance, or understanding will make a difference. This personality wants what they want and they want it now! Everything else in their environment is secondary or less important to their immediate needs. The psychopaths you're familiar with are "Freddy," "Jason," Michael Meyers," well, you get the point, but that's the extreme presented by Hollywood.

Psychopaths and sociopaths are walking among us every day. They may be doctors, lawyers and teachers, or the bully at school. And yes, somebody's mother. They look just like regular people and have jobs just like regular people; But, they arn't like regular people. They believe that they're the only ones who counts, they don't feel for others; thats the point.

As a Correction Officer I see this personality every day 'en masse' as they are the one's most likely to break laws, believing that laws and rules are for everyone else, not them. Usually they believe they are much smarter than everyone else, also.

You also need to understand that others beside yourself will see these people for what they are. It's not just you all alone here in the wilderness.( As a Scout with your credentials this wouldn't be a problem, had to throw that in!) Have comfort that in the end you will learn what you can here and will be better able to handle these manipulative people in the future.

Personally, at 14 you have been through more than you should have. I couldn't have done it with the patience you have shown. The next time this mom is in you face switch it around putting her on the defensive with a simple " Are you threatening me?, I feel threatened!" and then add how she is treading on thin ice, abusing you, verbally and emotionally. I would include the ASM, the husband, in your defense.

Those prospective Scouts probably left when they realized that this woman is part of your organization and they wanted nothing to do with it because of her.

Scouting is a private organization. The troop can have or not have who they want as a leader. I suggest that the SM send the ASM and wife packing.

A lot of readers here will reply that this is a pretty harsh comment. Scouting isn't for everyone, and everyone isn't for Scouting.

Every comment previously posted has presented nice solutions for nice people. You're not dealing with a nice person. I hope my different point of view helps you in dealing with this monumental challenge!! Dave Jacobs, ASM 584, Seaford, DE

So, now meet this challenge and....Be prepared!

My response to a few items here: In the military we immediately removed our covers when entering a building. There was no saluting inside a building, either. At the base movie theater prior to the show General Westmorland led us all in the pledge of allegience and we stood at attention with hand over our hearts; but then, again, everyone wore civilian clothes off duty, I remember. As a Scout we wear hats, not covers. And we're not military, but we have the military background throught BP and we have formations; we have a bugler with the same calls; and we march in parades; and we conduct flag ceremonies. We camp 'in the field' and are prepared to survive in adverse conditions. We have designated ranks and a leadership heirarchy based on accomplishment and parsonal leadership development. We wear uniform uniforms i.e. patches are all in the same place, and we can identify each other as Scouts from anywhere in the world. Thats what uniform is. We are far more military than not and thats a good thing in my opinion.

Now: Scouts, religion, dining hall, and Scout hats. Fot the 2nd year in a row having attended Scout Camp I got into it over wearing a Scout hat in the dining hall. When notified that I was Jewish and it is customary to have one's head covered for prayer and at the dining table the issue was dropped the first year. This year the dining hall was run by a staff who was more than less tolerant of other than his familiar values. "You people are supposed to wear little beanies", he said. "We're trying to teach these kids some manners." I asked the camp director if I was not welcome or if other Jewish, or Moslem Scouts who were supposed to follow their parents wishes to keep the faith, by wearing a hat, not necessarily the orthodox headgear one would wear at a formal service at home, were not welcome either. Remember; Its Scout camp and possibly the parent dosen't want the Scout to loose another item. Of course the director didn't want me to leave and I was told the situation would be corrected. It took longer than it should have. The third day after this happened a Scout I hadn't met yet, came up to my table and thanked me for speaking up for the untold number of other Jewish Scouts who felt threatened to speak up when the command,"hats off" was sounded entering the dining hall. I'm afraid that sometimes as Scouts we have to look at the 12 laws from outside the envelope. We have to add "tolerant" under Reverent. Maby it should be a new law. But if we're all wearing the same uniform, isn't that implied? Dave Jacobs ASM 584, Seaford DE.

I think that a week of Scout Camp with swimming competing with crafts, trips, and any other number of merit badges offered is asking a lot of a Scout to 1) simply get conditioned, 2) get reasonable stroke form, and 3) get practice time in all in 1 week of camp. I was sorry that quite a few Scouts didn't satisfy my first class 150 yd swim. None admitted having prepared for this and expected that if they simply survived the ordeal, it was a sure thing. The YMCA is the largest owner of pools in the USA and have a 12 month program. Most towns have pools and run ARC classes for the Summer. Scouts coming to camp for 1 week need to avail themselves to these programs to build up their muscles and endurance. There is no land equivilant for this without getting fanatical and this is not what this is about. Weak in baseball, running etc.? use your back yard or a park. Swimming for 1st class needs a large 25 yd pool at least. Not too many of us own one and there's the problem. As Scoutmasters we need to follow up on this, get a pool programed for a good length of time for us and use it for practice, not sighing off blue cards right away. And its good defined strokes, just like in the merit badge book and the manual. Dave J!

Wonderful! An exceptional Scout and an exceptional Dad! ...Dave J!

Camp Henson. The went there the last 3 years that I know of and we have a great time there. This'll be my 2nd year there. Dave J!

I'm Dave Jacobs an ASM in DE and new to responding. Been reading for about a year when I discovered the site. About the stove.. insulation between the walls? Isn't that where the fuel goes to get to the little burner holes? It looks like a great activity for a meeting or two. Thanks! dave J!