CPAMom

I'm terribly dismayed that this is even up for discussion. It was discussed and decided 7 years ago. Why aren't people who want an organization with these standards joining Spiral Scouting? There is a place for them. And I wish them well. There is no need to change BSA.

I personally wanted my baby baptised after he was born. I did not join a Baptist church and try to convince them to do this. I joined a church in a denomination that lined up with my views.

I called national office today. They were all to set up to direct my call to the poll. No one asked if I was a registered leader or had a child in scouting. So, ANYONE who calls, is represented in "the poll." So, the opinion of ANYONE counts equally at BSA in this.

I'm terribly dismayed that this is even up for discussion. It was discussed and decided 7 years ago. Why aren't people who want an organization with these standards joining Spiral Scouting? There is a place for them. And I wish them well. There is no need to change BSA.

I personally wanted my baby baptised after he was born. I did not join a Baptist church and try to convince them to do this. I joined a church in a denomination that lined up with my views.

I called national office today. They were all to set up to direct my call to the poll. No one asked if I was a registered leader or had a child in scouting. So, ANYONE who calls, is represented in "the poll." So, the opinion of ANYONE counts equally at BSA in this.

CPMom wrote: "Only one problem: He was the only adult leader in their campsite.

Yeah, ummmm... That's not a little problem. Each unit, provisional or not, should have at least two leaders. This is a youth protection issue.

----------------------------------------------

Don't think I'm not flipping out over this. I was shocked.

I now have a provisional camper experience to report. Our son went with a friend to a very nice camp (2nd camp week this summer for both). There was only one other provo scout who came with his dad. His dad was drafted to be the provo scoutmaster. Great scout dad and leader, and he had no trouble with the boys. They all enjoyed each other. Only one problem: He was the only adult leader in their campsite.

My son loves scouting and loved his first year at summer camp last week. The camp he attended has a very discounted rate for staying a 2nd week as a provisional camper. We are thinking we may take them up on that offer next year.

I'd like to hear if your son or other boys you know have gone thru the provisional troop route. How did that go? Did they have a good time?

My husband went several years provisionally as his troop did not attend summer camp. He had a great time, but that is now ancient history. Boys were different back then.

I feel your pain. We're finding that joining in with Boy Scout troop activities is far easier said than done. I hate things that are dependent on other people, especially some of the people we deal with. I'd say check it off for sure if it was announced to the Boy Scouts, the SM shows up, but no Boy Scouts chose to attend.

I counted a Nat'l Park service project as a pack service project for my son. It was announced as a pack service project. I put it on the pack calendar. All cubs were on notice. No Cubs signed up or showed up. I have no control over this.

When my husband led Bears, there was no assistant, other than me. Den Chiefs have never been part of our pack. Our son has had such an advantage of being the den leader's son. The run thru at home before a meeting means he is getting scout tutoring. He would go into those meetings with pride because he knew the stuff before it was taught. He knew the skits and songs before anyone else.

We sort of have a cub like that in our pack. He joined as a bear, allergy did not seem to be much of a factor, but I did know about it. Web 1 year, he started having inconsistent attendance. So, he after coming to the popcorn kickoff, which could have been a problem, he did not come again. Parent called the day of the Christmas party to see if he could come; of course, but no warning was given to the pack to not bring food that might contain peanuts.

Certainly, nothing is more important than preserving this scout's life. I'm not medically trained, so I would not be willing to take responsibility for the Epipen, especially now that you guys have informed me that you don't get a 2nd chance.

Would it be unfair to require his parent to attend all troop functions so that the responsibility is not on the shoulders of leaders?

No advice here. Just some empathy.

Our pack was very poorly run 2 years ago. CM did practically nothing. Found out no ranks were reported. Campout means a reservation at the local KOA. No program, no sign-ups, just show up. He also handled the popcorn. When I took over as treasurer, I learned that we only made 28% on sales. Should have made 34%. He didn't ask anyone else to be Popcorn Kernal. He didn't jump thru the simple hoops to make 34%. Other events were very bare bone. Why would anyone think Cub Scouts is fun? His kid crossed over in May. AT THE CROSSOVER, END OF MAY, MY HUSBAND WAS ASKED TO BE CM!!! He said if someone would take over his DL position, he would, but could not do both.

The year following, last year, we did all we could to help CM & his wife. But our priority was to see a good den program. In 2nd semester, we were blessed with 2 fabulous leaders who moved to our area. By then, we had been to training (never suggested to us the prior year, so didn't know we needed it). We started Pack Committee meetings. I did a big push for more leaders and got 2, which I counted as a huge success. They were both people that we would not have approached.

This year, things are so much better. Lots of leader help is going on. 4 new leaders, so far.

I say make sure your son has a good den program. If other events are not well-done, while sad, it is not the end of the world. The dens with strong leaders have survived well over the years.

You can't do it all well; at least I don't think you can. There is hope.

Bravo! Excellent introduction to your pack.

BadenP - Love your fundraiser. Can you direct me to a website for more info.?

Well, our numbers are starting to drop. Not as many kids that signed up are showing up. In my husband's den, one kid who was real excited at an outing has not shown up for the past 2 meetings. At the last meeting he attended, his parent left early and was talking with teens in the parking lot. I conclude that she is not interested any longer.

My prediction is that the kids that don't sell popcorn or pay the fee will simply quit coming at the end of October when all that is due. Normally, we would see them come with inconsistent attendance thru January when BSA National dues are collected before they drop out completely in January. Three more months of scouting would just provide a different environment for these kids who would ordinarily be home with the TV on what ever ridiculous show their parents/guardians have on.

Scoutfish - I'd like to know what you want us to do for you if you were in our pack. And honestly, for a parent & scout in your situation, whatever you said, I'd make sure it happens.

Lisabob,

Well, well, well - The Council fundraising efforts go on and on this time of year. A Sporting Clays fundraiser in September and an ongoing online auction right now on their website. So, the rule does not seem to apply to Council, only to units.

Good suggestion to fill out an application and turn it in. I am awaiting the information from a company in FL so I can see what we will be up against pricewise. I've been checking around, and no one else in the community is selling fruit. I know a homeschool baseball team that is doing well with it and has developed a solid customer base over the past 3 years.

Evmori, I could not agree with you more. There are 2 big categories of customers. One views the popcorn as "what the kids are selling now," not supporting scouting. That customer will say no to the overpriced stuff. The other customer wants to support scouting, so it does not matter what the product is, and they seem to pony up to the price if they can. However, there is a price point where it won't sell. Our Council's $12 and $18 products may be those points in our area.

Two years ago, there was a $30 pack that consisted of 6 smaller boxes of 5 in a pack. We sold those individually at Show & Sell. I personally felt good about those sales. You are asking people you don't know to purchase something well under $10. Yeah, we only made about $2 per box, but at least it was not embarrassing. Then Council took those out of the product line because you really were not supposed to do that.

We have a lot of cub scouts this year. I'm not convinced that anyone will buy the overpriced popcorn this year. Cheapest product on our order form is a bag for $12.

So, I'm thinking about having a 2nd fundraiser this year for those who need it.

Does anyone do a bake sale? If so, tell me what scouts and parents do in this. I'm thinking that scouts and parents could bake items, set up in front of a local business and sell. Put the earnings towards their pack fee.

Evmori - Honestly, it would be easier on the unpaid leaders if everyone just paid the $65. Not everyone can do that, so here we go into popcorn season.

I can totally relate that some parents don't want to be bothered with popcorn. Fine. Pay the money and move on. Or come up with some other way to fund it. I don't look down on these parents for not selling or doing a piddlin' amount. But their kids are costing us money when they could be footing the bill.

As for the kid with peanut allergies - They are severe. However, he attends school and eats at a separate table for kids with peanut allergies. His parents make plenty of money, so it makes sense to me for them to pay the fee.

CalicoPenn - Thanks for your response. I'm sure I will have a parent like you in the pack. I will get busy on the IYOS thing and prepare for anyone who says what you said.

We pay for certain items whether your kid shows up or not. We have tablecloths for events, supplies for crafts, patches. Our pack foots the bill for den leaders registrations and supplies they need for the program. Group costs. Cub Scouts does not happen for free.

I don't see how awards are only $10 per scout in your pack. Ours run $35 - $40 average. We do have belt loops going on, so maybe that is it.

We really need everyone to either sell close to $200 for this or pay $65. I could set the goal at $182.50 to be precise.

Only a few hard working kids & parents sold that last year. Maybe 10 out of 30. Donations were high at Show & Sell, and we got some bonus money from Council for selling more than the prior year. With only 30 kids, it worked out that the hard work of a few paid for the program for many.

On the first $100 level of sales, we are actually losing $2 if you sell $100 in popcorn. At the next $100, yes, we are making $3.

Couple of observations: In our den, I know two families well with plenty of income. One parent says her son in allergic to peanuts and therefore can't sell popcorn. So, for the past 2 years, we foot the bill for common costs; they pay nothing. Another parent of 2 scouts says they don't have anyone they know who they can sell to. Again, we are footing the bill for those kids who have the means to pay.

On poor families - How is it that they are so poor but show up at the campout with a new, large tent? They have the money for other things. One parent buys her kid a Mountain Dew at a convenience mart every week on the way to scouts. I'm having a hard time understanding why they can't pay a fee if they choose not to sell popcorn.

Ok, so much for my perspective. I am working on being kind and finding ways to work with people who don't have the means to pay. I appreciate the help I am getting here.

I'm the treasurer and figured out that it really does cost $65 per scout (at least; the number of scouts is up for debate) for a year of scouting at the pack level. So, this year, we are saying that a scout needs to either pay a $65 fee, by paying $35 in the fall and $30 in January, or sell popcorn to cover these amounts. (Sell $100 to earn the 1st $35, sell another $100 to earn the 2nd $30.) I have some people who are rushing to the sign-up sheets for Show & Sell slots. I'm worried that they won't take any orders and will end up not earning the fees. So, earn your way or pay your way are the options I've come up with.

I'm sensing that several kids are from destitute situations. The school where most boys attend is a Title 1 school. What are some good ways to handle these? We've said that money should not prevent you from participating in scouting.

By the way, I'm also worried that no one is going to buy the extremely expensive stuff, with a starting price of $12 for a bag and $18 for the next item up. At some price point, people shopping at Walmart are just going to say "no thank you."

Our den made a weight lifter neckerchief slide which also counted for Craftsman. Be aware that it was complicated to make, but the resulting product was cool. I'll have to find the link for you and post again when I have more time.

In silent auctions, I would argue that the donor willingly gave the item or service to the cause. Maybe it is walking the line to ask for contributions. As a parent, I could come up with stuff to donate for this purpose. For businesses, I would suggest, "in exchange for advertising your business" is what they are getting.

The person paying the money clearly gets something in return. If you bid, and you don't win the bidding, you don't pay. So you aren't gambling.

We are drowning in new scouts. We ended the year with 25 scouts. Had over 60 sign up. I lost count. 6 new Webelos II on top of the 8 from last year. I'd like to send some to each of you.

Well, Council tells me that the blackout dates required by United Way are July 1 - Nov. 30. (Seems like a long time.) So, we could only do fruit in the spring. I'm just not convinced that anyone will buy anything after Christmas.

My understanding is that Council does not want units to do other fundraisers during popcorn season. Then not in November because that is when they have a United Way campaign.

I don't think they would have any problem with selling fruit at any other time of year.

As we march into popcorn selling season, I wonder if anyone has ever sold oranges & grapefruit in the spring?

If so, how did it go?

I would love to have us sell this instead of popcorn, but my understanding is that it is against Council policy.