CNYScouter

Seabear-

Of the camps you attended which do you recommend?

I agree that a good summer camp experience is up to what the scouts want to do, but with the amount of camps to select from it is hard to know which camps are well run and which are not.

I also agree that Knowing the facts can make or break a summer camp but I am having trouble finding the facts about each summer camp.

What are the names of the books on BSA Camps?

I have not been able to locate a book that gives a good evaluation on all the available BSA camps.

I know that I said that money was not an issue, but it is, and not having the $$$$$ to do trips to California, Alaska and Maine to check out all the camps there I was using this forum to find camps to present as options for our Troop to attend.

Can you recommend any good camps in Maine or Alaska?

I was not looking for high adventure ideas, but summer camps to attend for the whole troop.

What are some non-monetary or inexpensive incentives that can be used to motivate Scouts or patrols.

I have seen the following and was looking for more ideas

1) Pie in the face of SM

2) Adults do patrols dishes for a camping trip.

3) Haircut or shave head.

4) Candy bar(s) or snack(s) for a reward

Anyone else have any others?

morainemom -

This is awesome. It sounds like you have a great son.

I fully agree that a Troop should encourage and give a good deal of opportunity for a Scout to pay his own way to these functions.

The old Troop we were in did not use individual Scout accounts. When I tried to get the unit to use them and the SM told me he did not believe in them and would not allow them. He expected that every parent to foot the bill for their son(s).

The new troop does have individual accounts but I have found that after the Troop takes a portion for troop expenses, there is often very little left to split among the scouts. Most years it only puts $50 or so into the scouts account for the year.

I am a little worried that there seems to be no clear-cut fundraising policy and it changes with each fundraiser. I dont think its a problem, but no one has just bothered to get around to setting and writing down a policy and it is handled on each case basis.

I know that our council Jamboree Troops did no fundraising on their own. Each Scout had to come up with there own way to pay for the trip. I know of only a few Troops that have individual accounts and allow scouts to use this for these types of trips.

The old troop we were with never attended these, as the SM planned all the trips and he didnt like to attend Camporees so we never went. As he had been the SM for 12 years, there were no Scouts in the Troop that had ever been to one, so even if they were asked to set up a yearly schedule no one knew what they were anyways.

When asking the scouts in our new Troop about these events I got this answer form an older Scout who had been in the troop 5 years: We stopped going to these for 2 reasons -

1)We felt out of place because we never wore our uniforms and everyone else was in full uniform.

2)They never won anything.

He also went on to say that troop meeting used to be a get together to play football and once in a while to work on a Merit Badge. Right now, there are only 2 or 3 older scouts that have ever been to a Camporee in the Troop. The SM was not a Scout as a boy and he has never been to one either.

I know when I was in Scouts we spent Troop meetings practicing the skills we needed to compete at the Camporees and usually won some type of award. We were usually one of the better Troops in attendance. (at least we though so). I do not see this going on in most troops today.

I feel that these are a great part of the Scouting experience and my son is missing a great deal in not attending. I was very disappointed that neither his old Troop nor his new Troop made any mention about the National Jamboree and no one from either Troop attended.

I also see that when I ask what are some the better Troops in the area, they all seem to attend district events. From what I see is that because instead of spending time trying to come up with ideas on what to do, they are spending time presenting Scouting skills and how to better present the scouting program.

Try the links in the thread:

What is High Adventure?

I think it is what you are looking for

I'm putting together a PowerPoint presentation on High Adventure and need a short one sentence description answering:

What is High Adventure?

Thanks

CNYScouter

Why attend District/Council events?

Most Troops in our district do not attend any of the District/Council events including the Troop we just joined. I have not seen the Troops calendar for the upcoming years but I am pretty sure these types of events will not be on it.

What are some reasons why a Troop should attend District/Council events?

I can think of a few but there are probably more reasons:

1) to show that there is a brotherhood of scouting and that our troop is not alone.

2) they can help plan your yearly calendar if you use troop meeting to prepare for these events.

3) To show your stuff to other Troops.

4) To meet other scouts to exchange ideas about programs.

Any more?

CNYScouter

I see that most of you are back from Jamboree.

I have a question about how you paid to go.

How many had fundraisers to pay for the trip and how many had to pay out of their own pockets?

If you did fundraisers what percentage of the cost did you end up raising?

Also, along these lines how many do fundraising to attend places like Philmont or Seabase or other High Adventure Trips?

It seems that most Troops in my area expect the parents to foot the whole bill for these kinds of trips (along with summer camp).

Im not poor but the cost to attend Jambo through our council was $1300 and about that for Philmont and Seabase.

Having to come up with $2600 for both of us to attend there was no way I could swing it.

How is Camp Bonner and Pamlico Sea Base?

How about the Blue Ridge Scout Reservation?

Thanks everyone this is what I was looking for.

The Troop went to Camp Rodney last summer and we will try to go again in the future.

From what I have been told, everyone was very impressed with the camp but some thought it was a bit country clubish.

However, our council camp is very rustic and is in the heart of the Adirondack Mountains. It is 20 miles off the main road down a dirt road into the backcountry.

I looked at the Camp Cherry Valley web site. This looks like it could be an awesome experience. I can understand why this camp would be difficult to book.

It is expensive to attend.

Even with the cost and the airfare is reasonable for us ($250-$300 from NY) still makes this a very attainable trip.

I can see a night stay on the Queen Mary and a side trip to Disneyland along with the ferry ride to get to Catalina Island and the 1 mile hike into camp would make this one heck of a experience.

Now if I just convince the scouts and committee

CNYScouter

If you could go to any BSA Summer Camp, distance and money were not a problem, where would you go?

What Summer Camps have you heard that have truly outstanding programs?

I am not looking for the National areas, like Philmont, Seabase or Northern Tier, but council run camps that have a great summer camp program.

Is there a Web site that ranks or gives a good evaluation of Summer camp programs being run?

Ive been to BSACamps.org, but it only gives a small description of the camp. Not all of the councils web sites give a good description of the summer program they run.

I know that it will depend on what type of camp you are looking for; but I am just looking for ideas for where to attend and where not to attend.

Seabear-

Yes, I have to say most of these people have stopped taking training.

It seems the professionals in our council are only concerned with numbers and could care less if the Troops are running a good program or not.

Almost all have had the basic training courses but nothing beyond that.

I went shopping for a new troop and contacted the 8 other Troops that were in a 10-minute radius from me. Of these, only about half had a representative at roundtable and 2 of them were roundtable commissioners.

Of these 9 troops no SMs are Wood Badge trained.

The first Troop we were in had a SM that was there 12 years, a CC that was there 8 years, and 2 ASMs that had been there over 35 years as adult leaders (plus 7 years as scouts) and none had taken any recent SM training (a couple had taken some type of training in the 70s).

The SM was the only one who had ever been to a roundtable.

I was actually discouraged from taking training from the other leaders in this unit, as I was told that I should be out doing things with the scouts instead spending my time taking training.

All the leaders in our new troop has had the basic training but none are willing to do anything else. Only one other adult and myself have ever been to a roundtable. The Troop has a person who has taken the old Train the Trainer course. She would happily run courses but no other leaders are willing to attend. As her son just turned 18(and just made Eagle) she has already told us that she will not be very active this year and will be getting out of scouting as she was only doing this for her son.

If you want training in our council you have to take it at the council level. Our district stopped offering training because they could not get enough participants.

The basic training courses are offered and run at least once a year (CM training, SM training and the DL training) but almost all the other courses have been offered but not run due to lack of participants.

BALOO, WEBELOS outdoor leaders, Trainers Development have not been run in at least 3 years. Cold Weather Training and Okpik Training have never been offer as far as I know (I have heard some people ask about them).

I have been told if I want to take the Trainers Development I will have to go out of council to get it.

2 years ago, for the first time in 10 years, our council held a Wood Badge course and it filled quickly. This year it has been canceled due to lack of participants. It looks like if I want this I will have to go out of council also.

Perhaps these are the reasons our council will be slowly ramping up to mandatory training by 2007. All leaders with over 1 year of service will have to be fully trained in their position or the unit will not be able to recharter in 2007.

CNYScouter

I have to agree with SemperParatus about large troop size being the byproduct of putting together a solid and supported program.

I my area the larger troops just seem to be offering a solid scouting program.

I know the SM of one of the largest, if not the largest troops in our council. The only recruiting he does his Troops involvement with the local Cub Pack. The scouts that cross over are only about half of his new members each year. Most of the rest come from scouts transferring in from poorly run programs.

His troop is in a community about half the size of the one I am in but has more kids in his one troop than there are in all three in our community.

But, as one leader in my new Troop told me:

its not how he is running his program his kids are different than ours

or in other words:

Its not our program its the kids today

CNYScouter

Seabear-

You asked:

Where are the Commissioners in the District ?

I have been involved with a Cub Pack, a Venturing Crew and 2 troops.

The Venturing Crew was in a different district (my district has no active crews) and the UC did try and help the crew with some issues it was having, it was just too late to help and the crew ended up folding.

The UC for the Cub Pack I am CC of, anytime I contacted him about any issues I though were his area to help us in (such as when we were having difficulty recruiting new leaders) he sent us to the DE, so I stopped contacting him and now just go to the DE with anything. The only time we saw him was once a year for the FOS presentation.

The first Troop were in did not have a UC and I have never meet the UC for our new Troop. ( I think it is the same person as the Cub Pack).

Thanks for the advice. I am planning to do just that.

Ill just keep plugging away and hoping it will catch with the other leaders.

CNYScouter

Niscouter - I feel the same way

I had a SM tell me one time his feelings on MBs at Troop meetings and I thought that it pretty much expressed my view:

After 3 or 4 years of summer camp and a couple of Merit Badge -O-Rees, if a Scout can not earn on his own the 6 or 7 MBs left for Eagle he doesnt deserve it.

But, since I am new and only a ASM i do not have much control on how things are being done in the Troop right now.

Ronvo-

I was told there used to be an alternate night for MBs but the scouts complained they were so busy with other activities most couldnt make it so it is now done on a Troop meeting night.

SM supports this 100%.

You are right that this is not a very boy lead unit and I think we do have parents that want paper Eagles.

We have actually debated in committee meeting how much to be boy lead.

We had a leader step-down, just as I joined the Troop, who was the MB coordinator.

I volunteered for this position assuming I would be the person the boys came to when they wanted to take a MB.

I have since found out that I am expected to call up and schedule the MBs to be taken at the Troop meetings.

I want to try to get this troop into a more boy lead unit.

If we are going to have MBs at Troop meeting, I want the Scouts to be the ones making the arrangements for the councilors to come in.

I have not had the chance to discuss this with the SM yet.

Im wondering what would happen if I do nothing?

Every adult at our last committee meeting said they wanted their sons to learn leadership.

In studying the BSA literature I see that the way scouts learn leadership is to become a boy lead unit.

I am very new to this group so I am just going to keep plugging away and trying to get this Troop to becoame a real "Scout" group.

Kahuna

Thanks for the suggestion.

I figured that these camps would be very hot as they do not offer summer camp in the last half of July and August.

How is the Adventure camp and the Adventure Attraction camps they offer year around?

Any experience with the Flaming Arrow Scout Reservation in the Gulf Ridge Council?

I tried to get the Scouts in the Troop interested in a trip to Seabase, but very few were interested in attending.

I thought a summer camp experience in Florida, with a side to Disney or Universal, may spark something so they may want to do Seabase in the future.

To answer some questions:

In April, my son and I switched troops.

In his first Troop MBs were done every week for the whole meeting.

In his new Troop, MBs are done once a month for the whole meeting.

I think some of his questions came from the SM steering him into taking Surveying MB.

He had the choice of taking this or hanging out and doing nothing or playing football or Frisbee during the monthly Troop meeting.

I do disagree with doing MBs during Troop meetings, but that will not change in this Troop.

There are parents, some who are also adult leaders in the Troop, who are insisting that this is the only time their sons have to work on MBs.

Hey it's the 21st Century how about "Scouting - The Video Game"

A

I came home from work yesterday and my son, who is a 13 year Star Scout, asked me why MBs were so important?

I asked him what he meant.

He said that he couldnt understand why the troops he has been in have placed such an importance on earning MBs as he thought there were more important things they should be doing.

He said that he thought that most of the required MBs were useful and important but didnt understand why a Troop would be doing any of the other MBs.

He said that after taking Oceanography MB at summer camp he thought that he would never use it in real life or as with most of the other non-required MBs.

Here was my answer to him:

I told him that its not that MBs were not unimportant as they allowed him to try different things to see if he liked them. I told him you never know when you do a MB you may discover a new hobby or find something that you may want to pursue as a career when he got older.

I also said to him they gave him a well-rounded education. I said that this is the same reason you have to take social studies, technology and home careers in school to give you a good all around education.

I didnt press it beyond this but would like to discuss what he thinks that his troop should be doing instead of MBs

CNYScouter

I was also disappointed to hear that this camp closed.

I was hoping that someday my sons troop would consider doing summer camp and/or a trip out of the canoe base at this camp.

Being a northern troop, I thought this would be a great trip to go on with its proximity to Orlando and its attractions and this is one place where we can get pretty cheap airfare to that would have made this an affordable trip.

Hi SP,

I fully agree about associating with those who are not looking to find blame with someone or something.

The problem is finding these people in scouting in my area.

The only place I seem to meet these types are the trainers at Training sessions and very few are from my District (our district no longer offers training).

I completed SM training this spring.

Even though my district is the most populated in the council out of the 30+ trainers only 3 were from my district. Of the 40 participants, only two were from my district.

I asked some of the staff about this and I was told it was typical that very few people from my district volunteer to be trainers.

The examples were not just from one troop. They were a combination of things I heard from my old troop and from some of the other troops when we went shopping for a new troop.

I am hearing these same types of things from some of the adult leaders in the new troop we joined.

Its becoming very frustrating when I make a suggestion about a change in the troops program straight out of the SM handbook and I am told that I dont know what Im talking about, or that Im not living in the real world because that stuff doesnt work.

I can say that I have seen a great program in action that used the program and saw that it does work if given the chance.

CNYScouter

We are looking for a summer camp on Cape Cod to attend next year.

How is Camp Greenough Scout Reservation?

Does this camp offer MB's? I couldn't tell from the Web Site.

Any other camps to look at on Cape Cod?

Thanks

CNYScouter

It seems to me that the Professional Scouters of the BSA have forgotten about what they teach all us volunteers in training:

Its not the destination thats important, but how you get there

Because They have such a focus on the goal (getting the numbers up) they dont care how they get there.

They are just concerned with the results instead of concentrating on making sure that good programs are being run that will draw in the kids to scouting.

CNYScouter

Are these still offered thru the BSA:

Boy Scout Troop Program Resources w/CD

Boy Scout Troop Program Features

I went to www.scoutstuff.org but do not these listed anywhere.

Are they discontinuedor did they change the titles?

I see Varsity Team Program Features on the site but nothing for a Troop