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Bob White - YPT is being followed as my wife and my son are with me. My wife is a Den Leader/Commissioner as am I so before we got everyone else involved we made sure YPT was foremost, thus why I asked everyone to spar me those type comments.

Beavah you kind of hit on the reason for the post - we do disagree about it - but she still goes every week. My fear is not her but appearance to other parents and getting myself in a bad position as the pack grows.

The DE and I are going to talk to the mother who has the enthusiasatic scouts to brag on her boys and try to get her to come out.

Again, no YPT, G2SS debates needed here. Only seeking to see how others handled and get advice from thier experiences.

And probably a little awakening on my part to - if the wife don't like it I'm missing something and trying to get my head around it.

OK - before everyone tells me the legalities - I have signed releases and permission from the DE, District Commissioner, COR, IH, etc. to do this.

I have 3 boys in my pack that parents just will not bring them to meetings. I stopped picking up 1 because Mom asked me to pay power bills, help get them XMAS for 7 kids, etc. I truly felt like I was being used. Especially when Mom asked me to pick him up because she was at the beauty shop...

The other 2 I pick up becuase they have a very young Mom and she will not bring them. She is at least at home with the 2 younger kids when I pick them up and when I come back. The house is clean the boys are very respectful and very excited about Scouts.

So here's the rub - my wife says I am not being fair -pick up all or pick up none. My rule has been call me before 5 PM and I'll get you. The 40 year old mom doesn't do this. The 10 year old does every week.

So how does everyone seem to feel about or deal with these type Scouts and transportation issues? What's the best way to address this?

We are a small new pack of only about 12 boys so we need and want them there ut just are not sure about this whole picking up situation.

I think you've answered your own question. Seems as if it is already better off for next year becuase this young leader has his first new volunteer...

Seriously, this is not directed at you but a statement in general. I am amazed each year at how many parents like to complain. I and many others are always willing to listen and learn. Generally, we try to take thier advice and implement when we can becuase some folks have great ideas.

However, many who are the first to complain are the last to volunteer. If you truly think it was that bad, and you are willing to help him, be a servant leader and step up to the plate. You obviously care more than most or you wouldn't be posting for help on the board.

I'm sure you will do an awesome job!

I wouldn't go the COR route as you haven't done anything yet to address the problem, likely because as you say, you're just starting out and learning the ropes.

How about asking him out to coffee or lunch. Talk with him 1 on 1 and find the real rub. There is something going on and him buying the shirt or the crocs are likely NOT the real issue.

How about using his previous scout expereience to your benefit. Maybe he can offer some volunteer time to help out a new pack? If was a scout it can't hurt, but make sure to keep his and your comments to one another just that - between one another. You or he could undo some good work pretty quickly by bringing this out in the open in a new pack.

If he refuses to accept the program and work cooperatively rmeind him of the values of scouting he learned and that he wants to set the example for his boy. If after all this,there are no changes and no resolution then maybe it's time to get the CM, COR, or UC involved. But as CC you should allow the CM and/or DL to make sure the program is being delivered and that he/she is engaging these parents on a regular basis to help gain thier buy-in.

Go out of your way to be respectful, and unless you're on an outing who cares about shoe types? Remember, have fun! So long as they are in uniform and showing up you have 95% of the battle won!

Maybe I'm just over looking it on scoutstuff.org, but where can we get new Pack Flags or is most everyone just making their own?

We have an older one that is nearing the end of it's useful life, and I just wanted to start looking around getting ideas.

We have explored the Mom's making them and that's an option, but they would like some ideas of what is currently out there commercially.

Thanks!

We have done something similar with belt loop nights during the summer. Setting up 3 choices and allowing the boys to choose 2 of the 3. Just be careful on time because I thought 2 hrs would be enough and we ended up needing 3 to get 2 belt loops covered well.

I am thinking about a similar event for after the holidays. Let us know what you learn from yours so we may benefit from your go at it.

Don't worry about the negative comments - anything you're willing to do for the boys is great! May sound a whole lot like a merit badge university but since cubs don't participate in this maybe something along those lines is needed in the cub program.

Keep up the enthusiasm!

We've been going through similar type things in our pack and district. Money should never be an issue in Scouts. Isn't this all about fun? Nonetheless, these things tend to come up.

1. Excellent advice - this is a committee/COR decision and this lady can not dictate what happens.

2. DE needs to refer back to pack and stay out of the middle of it - he can only alienate folks and he/she has to work with everyone.

3. If this lady is a leader - is she trained - I would guess not since she is unaware fo the proper organizational structure. It falls upon the leadership of the pack to get her trained. If she is trained, then that is a whole new set of problems.

4. Talk now in a way that preserves each person's diginity and respect. Settle the issue face to face with the CC and/or the COR before it gets out of hand.

5. As a part of this resolution, she needs to learn how issues are handled and the proper method for doing so, if she does not concur, perhaps she should be removed. Prepare for gossip and hard feelings, and no one wins here.

Lastly, make this about the boys - so long as you, your leaders, your pack, and your committee remember that the first priority is the boys - you can't go wrong!

You know it happens it alot. For example, just went through a similar situation where a lady who is CC went behind my back and everyone else's to try and get me removed. Told everyone that parents complained about me and program. Was very funny and redeeeming when all these alleged complainers decided to leave the pack and go with me to another one after the Dist Chair, DE, and I presented it to the parents as an opportunity to go lead another pack and help revive them. Not only that, now they are more people who have got turned off that are calling wanting to come over also.

Bottom line: These type people destroy packs and troops quick. You really need to get on top of this and go for that cup of coffee before he does too much damage. This lady knew what she was doing and even announuced it. This persoon may not know, but if he does and you put your boys first, you need to get this slowed down or fixed ASAP for the benefit of all. However, there are right and wrong ways to do. The right way typically is the hardest.

my last post on the subject because I am confident that those empowered to handle this situation are doing so.

Someone mentioned sharing the same address and phone number, they don't. Thus, the reason many parents were concerned. That's how public this couple is.

Secondly, the last post hit the real source of the issue. Gossip! If everyone who had an issue with it had followed the chain of command adn acted in a respectful fashion to all not nearly as many people would have known. Hence, the post I made before about people being out to get him.

If we as adults don't perpetuate the gossip and contribute to the rumor mill we would all be a lot better off. The bottom line here is:

1. He messed up. I'm sure he's been told and knows.

2. Those who were aware and have a personal agenda against this young man made the situation worse by spreading it arounud. While it was wrong what he did, I don't believe thier actions to be any better.

3. I have had trouble with this DE also - however, at age 24 I was a lot like him. So, I do have some empathy.

4. There needs to be no rules police - only moral fiber and the courage to address our peers and embrace them with respect, support, and understanding when mistakes are made. After all, we all make mistakes. The difference in us is how we learn from them.

my last post on the subject because I am confident that those empowered to handle this situation are doing so.

Someone mentioned sharing the same address and phone number, they don't. Thus, the reason many parents were concerned. That's how public this couple is.

Secondly, the last post hit the real source of the issue. Gossip! If everyone who had an issue with it had followed the chain of command adn acted in a respectful fashion to all not nearly as many people would have known. Hence, the post I made before about people being out to get him.

If we as adults don't perpetuate the gossip and contribute to the rumor mill we would all be a lot better off. The bottom line here is:

1. He messed up. I'm sure he's been told and knows.

2. Those who were aware and have a personal agenda against this young man made the situation worst by spreading it arounud. While it was wrong what he did, I don't believe thier actions to be any better.

3. I have had trouble with this DE also - however, at age 24 I was a lot like him. So, I do have some empathy.

4. There needs to be no rules police - only moral fiber and the courage to address our peers and embrace them with respect, support, and understanding when mistakes are made. After all, we all make mistakes. The difference in us is how we learn from them.

Hello All -

Longtime lurker and 1st time poster. I have watched this thread with much interest. I am from this council and know the original poster. He is a decent and honest man whom I appreciate for his contributions to Scouting. I sincerely believe he made this post to seek direction and gauge opinion on the subject.

There are a few things that should be noted about the DE in question.

He is relatively new and has made many mistakes. He has been counseled by both professionals and volunteers alike. He has been given numerous chances to learn and gain experience. Unfortunately, he has a couple things working against him. In his eagerness to serve he tries to be all things to all people which creates many more issues and creates a feeling of distrust. He has done numerous things and we could list them all - but to attack him serves no purpose. The biggest issue is that he just refuses to "get it". He doesn't have enough time to earn back the trust and respect he has lost.

Secondly, Council is aware and I am confident that they have addressed the issue. Each of us need to remember he is an employee and his "coaching" as an employee is protected by confidentiality laws. I have no first hand account, but I am sure that Council must be growing tired of all the complaints. This was not the only one durring this particular camp.

Third, this DE makes it very known that this lady is his fiance. She participates in many district activities with him. She was a paid Lifeguard working the waterfront at this event. So, technically, she too was an employee. Any communication with her would also be protected.

Lastly, as a leader I had numerous parents complain to me. I made our Camp Director and Program Director aware. It was handled appropriately within the Chain of Command.

I think there are 2 main points here:

1. He knows some people are out to get him and are complaining all the time. He showed extremely poor judgement by placing himself in this position. Should it be this way - NO - but if we were all in similar shoes I think we would be more careful. He is young and frankly thinks "it won't happen to me".

2. Our council is supportive and understanding. They are in a tough spot because it costs significant amounts of money to hire these guys and send them to all the trainings. The truly make an investment in the program each time they hire a DE. The council, and only the council, can decide at what point they must cut their losses. Our job as volunteers is to provide the boys a quality program.

We have rules for youth protection and the G2SS, as a leader in this organization our personal morals, values, etc. should reflect upon the culture created by the organization to which we belong. This does mean we should always agree - respectful discussion such as this is very healthy and good for all. We should, however, live and strive to attain those values and set examples for the young men we lead. This is not about 2 moms, 2 dads, unmarried parents or couples, or one DE. It's about following the rules we agree to respect and honor as a leader in the BSA.

Kudos srisom - great discussion - hope to see you soon!