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@InquisitiveScouter That does provide some insight. I asked, because I was curious about the trends. Your district has almost as many members as our council, which is also geographically large with units concentrated in pockets. Similar to yours, some of these units absorbed members from covid induced unit collapsing. However, we're now seeing those units numbers decline as families don't want to travel that far. We have one district that is marginally active with about 3 events a year. The other districts are essentially non functioning, but at least in part due to units refusing to support any attempt at district recruiting and programming, which, unfortunately, is self-defeating. But, its not low population. Our market share is very low. I was brought in to help turn this around. New units should be low hanging fruit, but for some existing units holding their district prisoner, creating a dilemma. Once a month district events for troops does sound like too much to me also. Maybe a sign of other units relying too much on district, which supports your observation that other units are not getting the RIGHT type of district support.

In this homework assignment there are no wrong answers, only insightful responses.

This is a fascinating discussion, reading the various points of view around the same subject matter. Of course, I know how its supposed to be (mostly), I've read all the guidance, policies, bylaws, etc. And then reality sets-in! What I've seen is similar, but its the veteran scouters intimidating the 20 something DEs. We lost one a few years ago I suspect, in part, due to this. I know these veteran scouters are doing this, because I've had several try to intimidate me. @InquisitiveScouter - I'd still like to know particulars about your district. The number of troops, scouts, events, etc. Is membership improving or declining? Do you have a handful of large troops and small troops in your district?

@InquisitiveScouter Tell me about your district and council. Number of troops, members, etc, roughly? How active is your district (events, etc)? Is the council membership grown, steady, declining? Are there other troops nearby?

How are your district people selected? Who is nominating your members-at-large? Who is appointing members of your nominating committee? I speculate the most innocuous reason is due to limited social networks. More egregious reasons are egos, gatekeeping and controlling district resources.

I may have proposed the question wrong. If the units are complaining about lack of district support, yet all of the district committee members are from the units. In other words, they are complaining about the lack of support that is of their own doing. Thanks for the tips. That's all well understood. I am a volunteer, and I also have decades of organizational management experience in a business context. I see the problem, but I don't have any control over fixing it. All I can do is ask them to show-up.

The district and council committee is primary comprised on the CORs of the units. And, at least in my limited experience, the members-at-large are all unit adults. So, when the unit says the district doesn't support them, how do you flip that around? Stacking the committee with insiders results from the units fighting for their share of declining resources. The political power isn't there to load the district committees with neutral members. In theory, the council president should be preventing this through the nominating process but "good ole'" club politics is getting in the way.

The Aims & Methods has a lot to do with it, but then what do you do when the SM insists its a youth led troop when its obviously not. Or, their idea of the Patrol Method is to mix up patrols (which is clearly discouraged in the troop leadership guides). The reason for refusing NYLT is the scouts might learn how BSA wants troops to function, not how the SM thinks it should work.

Give me your opinions on how much leeway is appropriate for troops to "customize" the scouting program for their troop. Preferably real-world examples would be good: what you think is acceptable and what is not. Its an open-ended question. Those of you on the district/council end, what did you do to correct? I know "training, training, training" but I find some unit leaders (am I alone in despising the term "leaders" applied to Scouters?) already know it all and think they have a better way. I'm dealing with a few troops now how have isolated themselves from the district. I understand that you cannot force a troop to participate in district and council events, but too me, this should be a red flag. Got another troop, same district, almost as bad, and actively refuse to send youth to council's NYLT. I'm convinced the SM of that troop is a narcissist, and gaslighting most of the parents, adult volunteers about how scouting works. Got on my radar because one of the parent's is an Eagle and decided to go around the SM to get his kid into NYLT. Problem is the only other troop that family could transfer to is the other one (nothing else nearby.) Very frustrating.

PDF versions is available. Haven't found the official links, but here you go: www.reddit.com/r/BSA/comments/1knhymg/new_troop_selfassessment_launches_today I doubt that national is tracking the results because the online survey have not usable identifing info; they'd get a lot of noise. I.E. I've taken the surveys multiple times just to review what the questions. I think a notable number of units will refuse to use this, especially if the results were officially tabulated outside the unit. Hopefully it is a slow boil to get units to start using it, then eventually start actually tracking. JTE was too easy to game. My home unit Key 3 liked JTE for that reason. These new assessments are far better at pin-pointing specific issues, as so far the Key 3 have actively refused them.

What presentation materials are actually provided in the google drive? Videos? Slides?

Parent of a youth who is first time NYLT staff in a council that is trying to restart their NYLT program. The current youth staff has been NYLT trained by various other councils. Seems to be a lot of confusion about what official materials are available, such as videos and slide shows. Its my understanding that the NYLT certified adult trainers are supposed to be given various official materials, but apparently all that was provided was the syllabus. Are there official slide shows or other presentation materials available, or have these been generated by the councils?

Its interesting that you say that. Conflict of interest, I wouldn't be assigned to my troop but hoping it might free up others to do so. Currently being told to expect maybe 3 to 4 unit assignments 2 to 4 visits a year. Based on my in-troop experience and the little district observations, its going to take a lot more the 4 visits a year. Not relishing the idea of being the new kid in town in the wild-west district.

Our troop hasn't seen a council rep in several years. How often do you see yours? When they show up, do they meet with the committee members or just the key3

council: your troop has paying members, well "nothing to see here"

We agree the aim is to be Youth Led. In your opinion / experience, under what conditions is it appropriate for adults to step-in? When you step-in, what is the appropriate correction for a Youth Led troop? Certainly adults need to intercede when safety is a concern. I think I'm looking more for the grey areas. For example, do you let the troop meetings consistent of kickball games with occasional youth-led advancement sign-offs? If not, what is an appropriate correction for something of this sort without turning into an Adult Led troop? In the sprite of "mad libs," how would you complete something like "The [PL / SPL / Patrol / Troop / ASM / Parent] is expected to A)______________. If this does not occur, then B)________________" (OR your own version of the statement.) A) B)

Good idea. I guess the general belief is that age 16 or High School is the make or break moment. Sticking around is a good sign that the scouts are enjoying themselves. Making it to First Class is a measure of program success. Any rank after First Class is more about individual ambitions. So, What is the retention rate of 16+ scouts? How many of our Scouts made it to First Class?

To clarify, I am looking for measures of success of the youth from the perspective of a Scouter. For example, one of my least favorite measures is probably "How many Eagle Scouts did we produce during my tenure?" But, alternatively, one that I think might be good is "How many (percentage) of our Scouts made it to First Class?" I'm not really sure why I think that; its just a gut feeling at this point. I do get that the answers to my OP are likely subjective by most standards, though my intent is to figure-out if there are reasonable objective measures. Certainly, too @Skeptics point, the best measure is probably something like "How many of our former adults participate in Scouting as adults, or introduce their kids to Scouting?" But, that's hard to track I like @MattR's response, through its subjective or too general so I might ponder how that could be measurable. For example, retention of scouts after they make [First Class or Eagle or have been SPL]? Or, for that matter, age or rank at which a Scout becomes inactive? I see too many kids that take the "Get Eagle, Get Out" path. I'm just spitballing ideas.

If you we're trying to explain Scout-led to another person, are there specific examples you could point out? The main reason I'm asking is that I'd really like to drill down into objective measures of success (if possible.) If we get too far into the weeds on this subtopic, we might be going off on a tangent from the OP but I'm thinking something like: 1) Scout starts & runs the troop meeting without an adult needing to speak ✅ 2) I've seen that Ladder of Youth Leader poster, which I think would be a great survey for a troop. So one measure might be how far up the ladder the troop has made it based on a group survey

Of course, I doubt there is any perfect measure The tricky thing about "voting with your feet", I think, is that some significant number of scouts will stay in a troop because their friends are there. And, that's a circular issue. So, to some degree, I think that may give some false indications until its too late (multiple families leave at the same time.)

As a Scouter, what outcomes do feel are the best measure of success for a troop? What makes you feel good about the program? I don't mean JTE, but what personally do you strive for?

How does your Key3 address parental suggestions and concerns, especally those brought up at parent / TLC meetings, that are at odds with the Key3 methods? Will they take the time to discuss the matter(s) with parents? Or, are the parent meetings basically presentations?

TLC: Troop Leadership Committee - the adult committee that oversees the program consisting of the Chair, Treasurer, Secretary and various other positions. Or, the adults that sit around a table occasionally chatting about the scout program. I think when I was in scouts the TLC was the term used for the PLC now, but that was a long time ago. Who sets the PLC targets? JTE and/or troop specific targets, I assume.

I'm an Eagle from a troop that did practice the patrol method, so I get it but the other parents don't really understand. The involved parents see the problem, but so far I haven't been able to find a succinct, convincing way to explain why the patrol method is the solution; coupled with the fact that the SM & CC have the podium. The response from other parents is usually something like, "OK, but what if we did this other thing" I've pointed them to the aims & method; quoted Baden-Powell; tried to explain how a SPL learns to lead by being a PL. One thing I haven't gotten across is that the PL learns from practicing, especially at the outings. Maybe I need a patrol method brief... here what it is, and why it works (and other "methods" don't.) However, I don't think it matters even if the concerned parents demanded change. SM has dug his claws in & the CC supports him. Most of the parents aren't engaged, so I expect don't care & would probably get upset at the rabble-rousers. The primary reason we're in this troop is that my son's friends are in it. That's making in tough to leave, but I think we've got to go. "Patrols make a Troop" is a great line (in your other post).

Yes, that sounds much more like I would expect. Does the PLC send their "annual plan" directly to the TLC for review or does the SM intercede? Does the TLC follow a formal agenda?