MYCVAStory

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

I have see the opposite argument, namely, the post-bankruptcy BSA will have all prior claims settled and may find it is easier to get insurance since the insurance companies won’t be as worried. Moreover if BSA really does have best in world YPT and has the TCC plan in place to put all YPT up for an independent review then it may prove easier and cheaper than before. Finally and frankly BSA numbers have collapsed it may be cheaper to cover fewer people.

Here's an interesting tidbit about sexual-abuse related bankruptcy.  POST bankruptcy, insurance is very very...wait for it....EASY to get.  Yep, that seems illogical but the reality is that there are companies that love that scenario because there are far fewer "unknowns" as in claimants waiting to come forward when SOLs change.  That said, if the abuse starts again (insert your opinion here) then the companies will adjust premiums accordingly.

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

My new, estimated timeline for BSA to emerge from bankruptcy. All dates based on the original timeline for the Fourth Amended Plan. This means if there are NO hiccups whatsoever, BSA is out of bankruptcy by December 1.

I hope it's 12/1 but....I spoke to someone involved and was told late today,  "Some time in Q1 of 2022, maybe even later in it"  is a lot more realistic.  The hand-to-hand combat and delays are still to come.  This sucks for every victim but is a reminder to settle in and focus on the fact that we're closer to the end than the beginning of the bankruptcy.  Then, a trust, and insurer fights for those insurers that  don't settle pre-bankruptcy....that's possibly years.  Sorry.  Not news anyone wants to hear and I hope I'm way wrong but given the history of it and holiday slowdowns I don't think so.  Sometimes though it's better to know reality and be able to face it than it is to get your hopes up unrealistically and be crushed.  Sorry.   If it;s Q1 then it will have taken two years.   That's a lot longer than the six months from now.  A dose of hopefully positive perspective to end this comment.

10 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

What if anything is to stop the TCC from posting the Berkeley Research Group Dashboards?

The TCC explained that it was the BSA that agreed to the use of the data as long as the dashboards weren't shared with any other entities.  The TCC though specifically invited the LC's to share their dashboard if they wanted.  The BSA's NDA prevented that.  Remember, at the meeting outside of mediation where the TCC explained the methodology it was the BSA as the Zoom host that pulled the plug before any LC was allowed to ask a question.

3 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

Ok.  Mandatory reporting.  I get that.  I should have read that.  My abuser likes guns.  Great.  Thanks BSA.  My proof already made its way to the Catholic Insurance Fund.  Might just as well put it in the paper.  This whole thing has gone from helping victims into an all-out S### show.  I don't need the minimal compensation as much as I need my security and well-being.  Just sorry I ever filed.

That's a shame.  If you have a lawyer, did he/she spell this out?  I'm always wondering how in-depth some attorneys discussed the process versus churning POCs.

33 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

It will be interesting to see where this goes.  I expect some late nights to determine strategy.   Does the coalition hold?  Time will tell.  

Yes, and what time will also hold are recurring MONTHLY fees that will NOT be paid for the time being by anyone other than the attorneys that formed and stay a part of the coalition.  Every victim should be hopeful that those increasing balances don't impact the coalition's  supporting what's BEST for VICTIMS and there's no rush to settle for less money sooner so bills can be paid.

4 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

What this means is that starting tomorrow, TCC/FCR/Coalition or any party can file their own reorganization plan for BSA and starting October 19, with the court's permission, send it out for a vote.

By virtue of the current RSA those three cannot until October 18 deadline is reached OR the debtor (BSA) ends the RSA voluntarily by submitting a new plan thereby invalidating the existing RSA. 

11 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Kennedy at 9:52 said "We know that there are cynical people out there...we know that there are volunteer scouters out there, we read the forums..."

Hi Dr. Kennedy!

And a shout out around then to "then now" as well!

5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Hearing starts: Issue #1 is the Hartford Settlement

It is 99% about this.

12 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

So, is it plausible that the abused keep their secrets for decades.  No doubt.

Sorry for your loss.  I appreciate you sharing the story.   A good discussion of "keeping secrets": https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-compassion-chronicles/201903/why-adult-victims-childhood-sexual-abuse-dont-disclose

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00038-012-0426-1

Methods

We included studies published between 2002 and 2009 that reported CSA in children below 18 years. We performed a random effects meta-analysis and analyzed moderator variables by meta-regression.

Results

Fifty-five studies from 24 countries were included. According to four predefined types of sexual abuse, prevalence estimates ranged from 8 to 31 % for girls and 3 to 17 % for boys. Nine girls and 3 boys out of 100 are victims of forced intercourse. Heterogeneity between primary studies was high in all analyses.

And from https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J070v12n01_05

Few empirical studies have been conducted in this area but research suggests that few victims tell anyone about child sexual abuse as children

I really don't want to debate further the actual number or percentage of participant abuse while in the BSA.  If it wasn't a problem, and wasn't continuing to occur, we wouldn't be where we are today.  Period.

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

What are my assumptions? 

I do not use this forum normally for one-on-one debate.  That said, it appeared to me that your assumption was that there were fewer than 82,000 cases of abuse.  If I was wrong and you believe there were more, my apologies.  If your assumption is that we will never know the true number then we both agree.  My point was that when 16% is generally accepted as being the prevalence, and this as been cited consistently, then before anyone assumes the amount in abuse is less in scouting they should do the math.

11 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

You folks admittingly don't have a clue of the numbers, high or low. Nobody does. Lots of emotion, but not a lot of data.

I'm curious, I can understand lawyers using these numbers in court to your advantage. But what do you gain defending those numbers on this forum where it doesn't make a difference. You're situation implies an obvious bias, so you aren't changing any minds. I don't get it.

Multi-tasking while the hearing proceeds.....  Your comments will certainly create head-shaking.  I'd like you to consider one accepted principle of abuse, especially among men. That is the fact that it takes years and decades for people, again, especially men, to come forward as victims of sexual abuse.  While the validation process will determine the number of unduplicated valid claims I'd like you to consider that there will also be many many victims who have not come forward, or never will, or may later in life.  PLEASE do your research into the prevalence and behavior of sexual abuse victims, especially males.  Here's a place to start: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15894146/   "Contact CSA was reported by 16% of males"  Again, PLEASE spend some time educating yourself regarding this topic and ask questions.  The shared experience in this forum, while not always in agreement, really helps understanding this topic not only quantitatively but also qualitatively.  You, like many, might find your assumptions changed.

9 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

For him, the big prize is the local councils: he's want that and said that since the start he wants that $4-$7 billion in assets.

I really don't care what his motivation is.  Just remember, while LC assets might appear attractive to some the prospect of hundreds of LC bankruptcy proceedings, those expenses and decreased available compensation for victims, shouldn't be.

2 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

And the insurance companies are probably concerned they are contributing money to the pot for "bogus" claims. Yea, those claims might get vetted out, but the insurance companies want to pay as little as possible. 

Of course.  Wouldn't it be interesting if we lived in a world where an amount was accepted, escrowed, and if there are invalid claims the money were "returned" to the insurers.  But, that would leave less for valid claims.  The fight to provide settlement money to the people who in part paid the policy premiums is going to get uglier and take more time than any victim wants to spend.  But, victims will get ONE shot at the largest settlement trust possible if they can stay patient when it's hardest.  Insurers know that time is on their side and they do everything possible to exploit it.

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Yes but I believe the idea, one pushed by both the insurance companies and at least some of the attorneys for the abuse victims, was and is that those with "bogus" claims shouldn't be allowed to vote on the plan at all.

It's one thing AFTER the plan to simply vet these out and/or payout $3500. It is another to say they should get a vote at all.

Absolutely.  Unfortunately, that has to be balanced against the amount of time it will take to validate claims.  No one wants to wait YEARS for that to happen before a vote can be take.  That's the problem with addressing mass sexual tort via bankruptcy and why the best TDP and settlement amount must be fought for now.

42 minutes ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

I wonder about some of claimants in this case, not just the thousands who submitted claim-forms with basic details missing (or on whose behalf certain attorneys submitted such forms), but even some of the parties who have written letters to the Judge.

Yes.  This reminds me of two items.  One, the TCC has said that it is an advocate of a robust system of claim validation and that one dollar going to an invalid claim is one dollar denied to a valid one.  As the saying goes, to those who are given much, much is expected.  We can all argue what a "robust" validation process will look like but that's where a Trust and validation professionals they hire (yes, there are firms that specialize in this as it relates to abuse) come in.  If you expect the maximum payment though it really is reasonable to expect that claimants will do more than take a little time to fill out a single form.  Will this require interviews and take time?  Probably, but given the number of claims that die was cast.  I'm sure this forum and others will do a great service to share experiences as a process is known.  Second, this comment also gets at the protests of the insurers; that there are scores of bogus claims.  To that I say a resounding "SO WHAT?"   If there are bogus claims, they are discovered, or those committing fraud take an early low payout it does one thing, leaves more money for deserving victims.   It's exactly why the TCC and Coalition are fighting for the maximum amount from the insurers.  Only by doing so, and having a robust validation system, will funds remain that aren't more insulting to victims than would be otherwise.  Did people see some late-night infomercial, say "I was in the scouts.  I could use some money" and call an 800 number?  Beats me.  What I do know is that I was abused and beyond proof of that impact and reports from my counselors I'm happy to sit down and tell my story.  I've spoken to other victims and I've spoken to someone who has had to interview them.  His opinion was the same as mine.  When it comes to child sexual abuse it doesn't take long to know when someone is telling the truth.  I really do hope that most victims will embrace and encourage a robust validation process instead of being scared by it.  If you were a victim it will help you and all true victims.  Oh, and occupy a few months of our time on this forum too! 🙂 

12 minutes ago, elitts said:

It's an easy call if someone witnesses abuse or if you have a group of kids all telling you something happened or a victim coming forward with a clear story of what happened.  But I start having issues with reporting when you aren't entirely sure what did or didn't happen. 

So people should only report when it's obvious, and keep their mouths shut when they aren't sure?  That opinion would make abusers everywhere smile.  It's why we need systems where every concern is raised and if 99 are looked into, and cleared, but the one that is "real" is found then the system works.  I was abused and went on to be an adult volunteer when my children were in scouting.  I was hyper-vigilant never to be in a situation where my behavior could be questioned and I demanded the same of those around me including raising ANY concerns within the troop so they could be addressed immediately.  The issue of what "did or didn't happen" is too important to ever ignore.

9 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

The big ol’, ever looming, not to be ignored “IF.” [*gulp*]

Agreed.  Lots of details looming right now but I suspect down the road many will seem small compared to the details of how any Trust and Awards Process are actually being operated.

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

"He’s very close to BSA’s lawyers. He’s done a LOT of mediations for Sidley and Austin which are Lauria and Andolina’s prior firm. Green was rejected by the TCC as a mediation team member for that reason and others. He is said to have a god complex. Lawyers who had dealings with him were not complimentary. A vocal lawyer on the Coalition advocated hard for him a year ago."

Not entirely accurate.  If memory serves, the insurers had significant issues with his appointment.  The TCC if memory serves was strongly advocating for Paul Finn, who had significant experience with abuse cases, so that left the other parties to have a leg up on selecting "their" choices to comprise the three mediators.  We need to remember that this is a pretty small and specialized pool so many bankruptcy and trust professionals work together as partners in the morning and then find themselves as opponents in the afternoon!  This isn't to promote Green's becoming the Trustee but to at least point out that he has experience as one.  Let's hope that whoever becomes the trustee if that becomes reality will understand the importance of communicating with the "classes" he/she oversees.

Given that there is another round of mediation starting tomorrow, and a reasonable guess would be that it is to address issues like the chartering organizations, as well as another round of hearings coming up next week, the TCC has rescheduled its August Town Hall to a better date.  Here's the filing and explanation:

NOTICE OF AUGUST 16, 2021 VIRTUAL TOWN HALL MEETING
HOSTED BY THE OFFICIAL TORT CLAIMANTS’ COMMITTEE
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that when the Official Tort Claimants’ Committee
(the “TCC”) was formed it embraced three key goals: (1) represent ALL abuse Survivors, (2)
work to achieve the most compensation possible for all Survivors, and (3) keep Survivors
informed of the bankruptcy process as the TCC works to achieve these goals. To that last point,
the TCC has held monthly meetings to provide updates and field questions. These meetings are
viewed by thousands of Survivors and their counsel. Normally we hold these meetings the
second Thursday of every month but when necessary we change that date to provide the best
possible information at the best time. Now that the hearing for the approval of the Disclosure
Statement has been moved to August 25, 2021 at 10:00 a.m. (ET), the approval of the
Restructuring Support Agreement (“RSA”) moved to August 12-13, 2021, and another multi-day
mediation scheduled for August 3-5, 2021, the TCC changed the next meeting to August 16,
2021 at 8:00 p.m. (ET). Please do not take this delay to signal anything positive or negative
about the process going forward. By scheduling the next meeting on August 16, 2021, the TCC
will be in a better position to inform you about the status of the RSA, any mediation
developments, and what to expect for the Disclosure Statement Hearing. If the above the
schedule changes, the TCC might decide to change the time and date of the next Town Hall
meeting. The members of the TCC and their dedicated professionals continue to be fully engaged
in every part of this process. We ask for patience until August 16, 2021 so that we can provide
with the most up to date and thorough status of the restructuring process. In the meantime, stay
strong and please check the TCC website WWW.TCCBSA.COM for any updates or send your
questions to BSASurvivors@pszjlaw.com. The details for the next meeting are below.
https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/89421964324 (no registration required) or Phone number: 888-
788-0099 (Toll Free), Webinar ID: 894 2196 4324.

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

Buchbinder: Today is 114th anniversary of founding of scouting. Let's pause and reflect on that.

Apparently someone's office got a call to suggest the BSA could use a shout-out.  Every victim can now reflect on what anniversary it is of their abuse.  It's time for the court to be reminded of that before this hearing ends.

14 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I agree as to all. But, do I need to wear a funny pink hat and ride a bus? I’m phobic on both fronts.

Reminds me of the funny red berets we wore in Scouting for a while.  I was always envious of the Smokey Bear hats.  Alas, I didn't have a good hat head.  I'm also starting to think that before this is over we need a mass Zoom meeting to watch these hearings live and share commentary!

3 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

“Boy Scouts is, and has been historically, buttressed and populated by titans of industry, government and philanthropy. They have been insulated and protected. It’s no mystery why this has gone unchallenged for so long.” I don’t disagree. 

Nor do I.  But, 4 1/2 years ago my wife got on a bus to Washington with 50 other women to meet thousands more.  She put on a funny pink hat and marched.  She came home and volunteered to support a candidate, something she had never done.  That candidate was elected and re-elected and is now effecting change.  That model has been repeated across the Country for all kinds of candidates on both sides of the aisle.  It starts with an unwillingness to accept that things won'tr change.  We all want change in some form so that past victims are treated adequately and there are no victims in the future.  Whether one or both of those are unrealistic, that will only be the case if people don't speak up now at the grassroots level so that those on top hear the rumblings down below.  Let's keep encouraging each other to speak out and respecting those who can't or aren't ready.  Thanks for fighting that fight brother.

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

I am simply looking to see actual balance in responses to these tragedies. 

Agreed.  I also do believe that change will come from those most impacted, the victims.  We have lived in the shadows for far too long.  Our Society's image of masculinity made that our safe space because it was expected.  It's still a safe place.  But, times have changed and our abuse is known and a part of the "me too" era when sexual abuse is being confronted.  Now, victims who are able must speak out of they expect change.  Documentaries have been made covering the hearings and trial and stories connected to USA Gymnastics.  That was approximately 500 victims and while one is too many BSA victims could understandably be scratching their heads and asking "What about the tens of thousands of men?"  For victims this seems like it's taking forever to reach the end of the story.  But, if real change is going to happen it isn't the end, it's the beginning.  There are stories to tell, documentaries to create, investigations to be completed.  Remember Santayana's words: "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."  Victims must make sure that what happened is not lost to time.  There is plenty of blame to go around; the BSA, insurers, SOLs, attorneys, bankruptcy system and more.  But if we expect TRUE change then it must be demanded by those who were victims and feel able, and it must happen at the grass-roots level.  If you can, write and call every one of your elected officials.  Better yet, ask to meet with them personally.  Reach out to local media.  Scream, yell.  But in the words attributed to Ghandi, but he never actually said them, "You must be the change in the world you want to see."  Many aren't ready but if you can speak out in your small piece of this world then please do.  If enough of us do the possibility of change only increases.

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

If I had to guess, the parties to the RSA were re-negotiating the Coalition payment.

Or just perhaps the BSA and AD-Hoc got cold feet about excluding the Charter Organizations.  Some may not like the payment of the Coalition professional fees but I bet a whole lot of victims would be irate if the charter organizations were included in an injunction without providing any compensation.