BigDale
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Posts posted by BigDale
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Sorry for the late response. I am still learning how this site works.
That is a difficult question. Cost is a very real concern because even the smallest projects can be expensive.
But my main concern is that the kids make something they will actually use. And a rounder isn't it. I consider those practice pieces. And repeating projects every year is no fun also.
Here are some thoughts:
Neckerchief slides are good projects would be used every time the uniform is worn. Especially if the whole pack makes them with a common design. They can be bought in packs of 100 at a cost of about 65 cents. Add a foot long piece of leather lace and maybe some beads and you have a nice item. Comes out to less than 1.00 each
Wallet - A very good project because in involves different pieces of leather and some lacing. It's a good project for the webelos because they will have an ID card from school and a place to keep money. But the cheapest kit I've found is still 9.00 each.
Wristband - I like these but I've discovered that the kids don't wear them very long. I think it is because most scouts want to just stamp as much as they can fit on them and there is no design. Around 2.00 each depending on size.
Bookmark - This is a simple and often overlooked project but having them make one for use with their scout handbooks will keep the project used for a long time. These can be purchased for less than 1.50 each in bulk.
Book Cover - I think this is a great project for Boy Scouts. There are a lot of customizing options with this project and the scouts can get very creative and really make it their own. It is also a good project for tooling. But this is a very expensive project. My price at Tandy is about 25.00 each.
Key Fob - A good project for older scouts because they will be driving. Or younger scouts can make one for their parents. I also let the parents make one if they want to. The key to this project is a wide variety of 3d stamps. But most programs don't have a large number of stamps. I just donated over 200 3d stamps to our council's Day Camp program so they could have 4 identical bins of tools. So, along with their stamps, I put together 4 identical sets of 60 stamps each. And I still don't think 60 is enough of a variety. I have about 400 different stamps and there are about 350 that I don't have. Anyways, these cost less than 1.00 each.
Coin Purse - Admittedly this is a better option for Girl Scouts but if I was doing a class just before mother's day or Christmas this is a good present for mom. The kit I would use runs about 5.00 each
Mystery Bracelet - There is not much stamping you can do on these but the cool thing about it is how it is braided. You can even get these pre-finished so all you have to do is the braiding. Unfinished ones at Tandy are around 2.00.
Rounders - I consider these practice pieces but can be used for multiple projects. Coasters are obvious, but punch a button hole at the top and a small hole at the bottom with a piece of lace running through to add beads to and you have an award "patch" Make sure they stamp the name of the event on it and the date. Depending on size they run about .50 each
Leather Braided Bracelet - I think this is a great project because braided bracelets are still "in". There are a lot of designs that use no hardware so that keeps the cost down. There are also a bunch of colors of round leather lace in different sizes so that leaves tons of options. Plus the Leatherwork Merit Badge requires a braided project. And let me tell you that using plastic lace and even paracord for that requirement is not real popular with the kids, but sooooo widely used. Once again we come to cost. I'm still looking for the best prices on the internet so I don't feel comfortable listing any.
Leather shapes. There are a lot of leather shapes you can purchase and design a project around them (like all 50 states). Costs vary but are reasonable.
So these are the project ideas that I have right now. I want to do a more research with actual kids to see what they would really want. So I'm thinking of starting a few leathercraft clubs at some of high schools and middle schools in my area.
An important factor that I've mentioned several times above is design. I think that if the kids got a bunch of scraps to stamp all over and get it out of their system then we could concentrate on design. Starting with a name, initials or 3d stamp and a nice border. is all they need for most projects.
Another really important factor is the finishing of the projects. That is why I want to spread the class to two meetings. The 2nd meeting is for dyeing, finishing and assembly. Not just a clear coat, but giving the kids a choice of colors. I think Tandy's Professional water based dyes come in 23 colors. I want to be able to offer each of them. Once again cost comes into play.
So where do you draw the line? I don't know. I want to do some fundraising to raise a bunch of money so I can provide all the dyes, paints, finishes, varieties of lace, etc... Who knows, maybe even offsetting at least part of the cost of the projects. Buying the projects in bulk saves a lot but has a big upfront cost.
It comes down to how much the troop or pack wants to spend. By not having to purchase tools every year they could spend more on projects. So there is that.
As far as my actual plan, I'm still working on it. I'll probably let the unit pick the projects and charge them slightly above cost plus a fee for replacement of the dyes, paper towels, disposable gloves, etc... maybe 25.00. Still working out the details on that part. I'm not trying to make money, I just don't want to lose any.
Dale
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9 hours ago, SSScout said:
By gad, sir, you are a wonder.
Every so often, somebody sees a problem and actually solves it. My Scout Hat off to you . Many Scout Leaders will be grateful, but they may not even know for what. But you will know.
Some years ago, I was an active Archery Range Safety Officer for CSDC. We held camp in the same locale many years, and others did too. I taught my Scout Assistants to "Walk The Range", in both directions, to retrieve arrows and check conditions. I mention this to set the stage for my story.
One year, as we set things up, I opened up the supplies that Council had provided. We anticipated 25 or so Cubs each rotation, set up 12 targets. Officially, the list showed we had 60 arrows, 30 bows of various sizes, and some replacement strings and "stuff". We went thru the arrows: 15 were defective, bad fledging, no point, loose nocks, splintered shafts. We actually counted 48 "good" arrows, actual. The bows we fixed. Targets were set up. Council said they would "try" to get us some more arrows, which they did. Some... We opened camp with (counted twice) 52 good arrows. Broke some, repaired some, but the end of the story is, by closely "Walking the Range", we closed camp and returned to Council 78 arrows! We had found and pulled out of the grass, more than 20 usable arrows , that no one in the previous years had found ! And we returned all the defects, some of which, I was told , were repaired for the Council Scout camp .
"The Work Is Done By Whoever Shows Up."
I totally agree and nice job.
It does take someone that has a real interest in a particular activity to make things really interesting for the scouts. Someone willing to take care of tools and supplies to make sure the next time they are used. Yours is archery and mine is leatherwork. I talked to the person in charge of our local camp and volunteered to come out every morning and either teach or help out with the leatherworking merit badge. He said it was ok and asked if I wanted to do other merit badges. My reply was "No". Not because I can't do basket weaving, I have no interest. I don't want to do merit badges I have no interest in. My heart wouldn't be in it. Some people can do that no problem. I'm just not one of them. To be honest, I'm not even that good at leatherwork yet. But I have a strong desire to learn. Eventually I would like to do Entrepreneurship, Gardening, Sustainability, Woodworking and Pioneering merit badges. Along with cast iron/dutch oven cooking classes. But I'm not ready yet.
Since I'm not going to be at each event I want to make sure it is as easy as possible for those that borrow the tools to make sure they are back in order when they turn them in. Sometime this summer I'm going to color code each bin's boxes and it's contents so it will be easy to find out what is missing. That includes all tools. For example, there are two 1/2" alphabet sets in each bin. One will be red and the other green. So when the kids put them away, as long as they put them in the right color box, and there are no empty spaces, we know that it is a complete set. That way we don't end up with two w's in one box and none in the other. I'm even going to try to make it so none of the colors will be repeated, even in other bins. So once red is used it will not be used in another bin. That shouldn't be too hard. I think there are enough shades in all the colors that I won't need to repeat any. It may seem excessive to go to that length in organizing the tools but I think it will be worth it in the long run.
I also plan on putting together a binder that has an inventory of all the tools and how to use them. In addition to a video that will demonstrate how to conduct the class from start to finish. Including about a half dozen or so projects that they could complete.
But as much as I enjoy doing this, I don't know how long I will be available. Hopefully, if I make it easy enough, someone else would take it over because it is so organized and complete.
I can dream.
Or our council will think I'm another anal retentive a-hole, get tired of me and kick me out.
Dale
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8 hours ago, Saltface said:
How many more mallets do you need? Are they expensive?
After repairing what I could it looks like I need 16 wooden mallets. They run about 4.50 each at Tandy.
I put together a spreadsheet of what we have, what we need as a bare minimum and what I would like to have. It's amazing how much it adds up to. I eventually want to add additional bins and advertise to the packs that there are leather tools that can be loaned to them. Then I will go out there every week or two and make sure everything is in order for the next pack to borrow it.
I am hoping to do a Go Fund Me campaign or a Kickstarter Campaign. Our council is checking if I can actually use the the BSA name in the campaign. I think they need to control use of the name and funds. They don't make it easy. I will probably just do it and not mention the name but elude to it. Then I can spend it without having to go through the whole approval process.
I am working with Tandy about donating wridtbands or another small project in order to keep the cost of the whole program down. But it might fall through if I don't get approval from BSA to hang a small banner during the class and mention that Tandy donated X. Maybe even pass out a 10% off coupon from Tandy. We'll see what happens.
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Sorry, I am trying to upload photos and had a problem.
There are still additional items that need to be purchased. But our council does not want to spend the money or they don't have the money, or didn't budget for it. Whatever.
I can only do my part.
I could get the rest of what I need for around $750.00. That would include 2 extras of each alphabet/number set to replace missing letters and numbers that occasionally happen.
I'll try to get some photos of the completed bins when I finish them.
Let me know what you think.
Dale
Here is the pile of tools I sorted through:
Here is 1 set of the 3D stamps that each bin will have.
The following photos are the rest of the donation I am making tomorrow:
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I've been gathering leather tools for use in Scout and youth groups over the last few years. I just got access to the leather tools that our council has for the Cub Scout Day Camps and for use by Leatherworking Merit Badge Counselors for classes. They have 4 bins of tools. Each is supposed to have enough for 20 scouts. The idea being that the bins could be checked out for district events and merit badge events. When I helped out with the merit badge at our "Mega Expo" the bin contained 20 mallets, 3 of which were broken, 26 stamping boards, a rack containing 12 handle stamps, and about 15 3d stamps. There were 6 alphabet sets, but only 1 was complete.
I went to the Scout office and got access to all the tools and found that over the years, multiple sets were checked out for a single event and when put away no effort was made to make sure the alphabet sets were organized back into complete sets. In fact, the sizes were even mixed up with 3d stamps thrown in for good measure. Fast forward a couple years and you get the situation I was just in. I sat there most of the day and sorted and organized the tools. Now in total there should be enough tools for 80 scouts to work with. As it turned out, there are only 68 mallets, 26 I need to repair, less than 50 3d stamps and less that 2 racks of misc handle stamps. And a bunch of those are damaged and will be thrown away.
So I went to my stash of leather tools and put together the following:
Using 34 of the 3d stamps they already had, I added 206 additional stamps to make up 4 sets of 60 3d stamps for each bin. Each set has the same stamps to make re-sorting easier in the future. I also put together 4 sets of 27 handle stamps, each set the same, for the bins also. I had 30 handles for the 3d stamps that I included along with some extra racks and misc letters and numbers to complete their sets.
I still need to find additional mallets along with purchasing 6 each of 3/8" and 1/4" alphabet/number sets and they should be set.
Here is the pile of tools I sorted through:
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I agree about the adults not caring for the tools and equipment properly. And have the same issues with spending my own money on stuff only to get "lost" if I don't keep a tight rein on them.
I do plan on using the tools also. The 3d stamps are the only ones I would share with the scouts. There are so many that it wouldn't make sense to have 2 sets of them. Although some of the older stamps are very hard to find and also very expensive to buy on ebay. So I will probably have a bunch that I won't take to the scouts or have the scouts sign them out/in if anyone wants to use those stamps. I have also been lucky about buying larger lots of the stamps and getting them for between 2.00 and 4.00 average cost. it depends on how many of the stamps I need from that lot.
I actually have multiple goals for getting tools.
1. Get enough stuff for me to have group classes of my own for up to 30 kids.
2. Get enough of a very specific set of tools to have intermediate level classes for up to 12 kids.
3. Inventory our BSA council's leather tools, repair and clean them.
4. Donate extra 3d stamps that I have to supplement their set.
5. Raise enough cash to purchase the latest 2d/3d stamps, stamp sets, replace their missing tools, and donate them to our council.
As far as the troops go, maybe just providing a space that they could come and make what they need. That way only those that need to make stuff show up. But I don't totally agree with you about the scouts not wanting to make additional stuff. I think it depends on the instructor and their ability to inspire. I would like to show the kids that leatherworking can be a great hobby and even a part time or full time business.
Since I live in Las Vegas, we have a ton of scouts, church and other youth groups. So I think I can be as busy as I want and the tools should be well used.
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Thanks Southpaw for the feedback. I'm not a fan of option 3 either but i throw it out there to see what other's think. I just posted another (lengthy) post
https://www.scouter.com/messenger/805/?tab=comments#comment-2335
Not sure this link will work but if you get a chance to look at it let me know what you think. the story above is only part of the story about how I got to this point.
Dale
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FYI - I suffer the same annoying problem that my dad has. I can't tell a short story and get right to the point. So you are all stuck with whatever I post. Sorry.
Also, I am probably totally over thinking this thing and everything is fine the way it is but as a former CPA I have to be anal retentive about everything. And today it is leather tools. I keep my stamps organized by number in a blueprint or map cabinet separating each manufacturer with each and every tool entered in a spreadsheet.
Several years ago my old Pack called me to see if I had the Pack's leather tools. I told them that i gave them to the scoutmaster, 7 years earlier, when my son crossed into Boy Scouts. They eventually found them but there was a lot of stuff missing. I remembered when I originally took over the tools that they were in poor shape and not even a complete alphabet set. I spent a couple of years building it back up and when I left there was a very nice set.
I started asking around and other units had the same problem. Someone would build up the set of leather tools and several years after they left a lot of them would be missing, if not completely gone. The reason, of course, is that nobody wants to volunteer in Cub Scouts so when the current leadership starts to get "stressed" they just assign tasks to people hoping they would step up and get more involved. After all it's only an hour a week, right. Then, if the unit does not have a central place to store all their supplies, which most don't, it goes home with the person assigned to that part of the program. The tools are now sitting in someones garage and get buried behind stuff or they let their kids and their friends play with the tools. Stuff gets lost. Or, the family moves and no one remembers that they have the tools, so they disappear. Then when it is time for leathercraft, the cycle starts over again. "Where are the leather tools?"
I had been buying leather tools on ebay for a while and not a month before she called I sold most of the tools because I didn't think I would need them. Anyways, after the call I started thinking about this problem and it festered in the back of my mind. How could this problem be solved? After all, this was costing the units a lot of money, or they just quit doing leatherwork all together. So the latest iteration of my plan is this:
Put together a large set of leather tools.
Brilliant!
Ok, there is a little more than that.
OPTION 1
I put together a set of leather tools and take them to Scout meetings and help them with their leatherworking program. I would have everything they would need to complete the projects they selected. I would have 8 to 12 projects to choose from, they pick 2 or 4 (or buy their own), and I show up with everything. I could run the meeting completely or assist them. They would pay the costs of the projects plus a fee of say $40.00. Which would cover my gas, the costs of disposables (paper towels, gloves, dyes, paints, etc...) and a little thrown in for the purchase of new stamps and tools as they come out. I would come to 2 meetings one to tool the projects and another to dye and assemble the projects. Also, they would pay the replacement costs of any missing tools.
The point being that I would have a much larger variety of 3d stamps, alphabets, handle stamps, dyes and other tools than they would ever have the money to acquire. The unit wouldn't have to spend money on tools, maintain them, replace dried out dyes and paints and get everything together before the meeting. In addition, I would have many examples of the projects and give design assistance, instead of the kids just stamping willy nilly all over the place.
OPTION 2
I put together several sets of leather tools that I would loan out to the units for a nominal fee of say $20.00 They bring them back after 1 or 2 weeks and only pay the $20.00 plus the replacement cost of any missing tools. They would however get a limited set of tools instead of the huge selection I would bring if they chose option 1 above. The reason being that many of the stamps and alphabet sets I have cost me a pretty penny and I wouldn't let them out of my sight. I would probably buy like 6 sets of all the current stamps that Tandy currently offers and enough mallets, handles for the stamps, 3 different alphabet sets and other tools to cover about 100 kids. Then add the new stamps that Tandy brings out each year,, i.e. 3d, handle stamps, alphabets and stamp sets. So the set grows each year. In addition I would add older stamps whenever I got 6 of them.
OPTION 3
Have the units pool their tools to create multiple sets of tools that each unit could borrow. Only paying for any tools that are missing. Each unit buys their own projects, dyes, paper towels, etc... A fee could be added to purchase new tools and fill in any missing tools to complete the sets.
I believe this would be the hardest to do because the units might not want to give up their tools. I think I have a way to make it fair for all the units involved but it is complicated.
Step 1 - all units turn all their leather tools. Each unit will receive a "credit" for the tools they turn in, equal to each item's cost at Tandy.
Step 2 - Separate the tools into X number of sets.
Step 3 - Calculate what it would cost to make each set mostly equal, using pricing at Tandy.
Step 4 - Add the amount from Step 3 with the total amount of "credit" from step 1.
Step 5 - Divide the amount from Step 4 with the total number of units participating in this. This is the total cost per unit for all the tools.
Step 6 - For each unit, subtract their "credit" from the amount in Step 5. If this amount is positive then the unit pays the difference. If it is negative they have a credit on their account that could either be paid back to the unit or spent future "use" of the tools or the purchase of projects.
The dollar amounts mentioned are examples only as I'm not sure of the amount that should be charged. I have been charging 20.00 for option 1 to Girl Scout troops in my area and I know that isn't covering all the costs.
This is not a money making opportunity for me. But under Options 1 and 2 the tools are mine and I would control where the fees are spent. So if I wanted to use better quality leather or have 40 colors of dyes it is up to me and not a committee. Under Option 3 the Council would own the tools and someone would have to be in charge of them and check them in and out, making sure the fees are collected and replacements are charged for and acquired.
AND all this depends on someone like me making sure it is all taken care of. That is easier said than done.
I don't have all the details worked out yet, but I'm almost there.
I know the Girl Scouts are very receptive to the idea but the BSA is a lot more controlling and would assume I am trying to make money off of this when all I'm trying to do is not lose money.
I know I gave a lot of information and if you've read this far please give me some feedback, good or bad. I will not take offence at any comment.
Thanks,
Dale
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I'm doing some research about leatherworking in scout troops and packs.
I'm doing some research about leatherworking in Scouts.
For Cub Scout Packs:
How often do you do leatherworking in the pack?
Who owns the tools? Pack, Scouter, borrowed, other.
Do you have a problem keeping track of the tools from year to year?
How much do you spend every year replacing tools that get lost or stolen?
How much do you spend on new tools every year to expand your collection?
How much do you spend on other related items, not including projects.
What kinds of projects do you do?
For packs that don't do any leatherwork other than camps and expos:
Would you like to?
What would you need?
What kind of projects would you like to do?
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Any help with this would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dale
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I'm doing some research about leatherworking in scout troops and packs.
Do any Boy Scout troops do any leatherwork outside of the leatherwork merit badge at camps or expos?
Who owns the tools? Troop, Scouter, borrowed, other.
How much do you spend every year replacing tools that get lost or stolen?
How much do you spend on other related items, not including projects.
What kinds of projects do you do?
For troops that don't do any leatherwork other than camps and expos:
Would you like to?
What would you need?
I'm talking about projects other than the small ones done in the Leatherworking merit badge.
Belts
Wallets
Book Covers for the scout handbook.
Custom projects like dutch oven cases, axe covers, knife sheaths, etc...
Any help with this would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dale
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My name is Dale and I am just getting back into boy scouts as a merit badge counselor for Leatherwork. I was a Life Scout as a boy and a Scouter with my son from Tigers to Eagle plus a few years. Been helping a bit with Girl Scouts with my daughters. Just finishing up the last year. I was one of the Leatherworking Merit Badge Counselors this last weekend at the MEGA SCOUT EXPO in Las Vegas. I've got some ideas about leatherworking with scout and other youth groups and want to ask questions and get feedback and pass some knowledge along, if I can.
Las Vegas Area Council Donation
in Open Discussion - Program
Posted
Thanks, I am going to order a set and try them out.