buffalojoe

I KNOW i'm about to step on about 33% of the actively enrolled scout units toes here when i say this but here it goes...

After reading the Handbook of Instructions of Priesthood Leaders: Scouting put out by the mormon church, I view how they have "adjusted the program to fit within church standards" a greater compromise to the values of scouting than any wiccan group could possibly be.

Paraphrased:

For instance, all male members aged 12 or older, no matter their level of participation in church activities or membership in a different troop, and are members of record shall be enrolled in the scout program, whether active or not.

or,

Troop leadership positions are to be considered callings in the church. as such, priesthood leaders should carefully pray before making a selection. Calls can be extended to worthy non member scouts as long as they agree to live by the standards of the church.

LDS units should not sponser or participate in "specialty organizations" that focus on a single topic such as an occupation or hobby.

---------------------

By their own instructions, the boys have no say in who leads the troop. I though scouting was boy led.

Second, if i were to enroll every boy over the age of 11 in my parish in scouts, I'd be thrown out of scouting, stripped of my ticket and possibly eagle, for artificially inflating membership.

and last this excludes them from explorers, varstity, sea scouts and ventures. In my district we have a troop that citing this to keep their boys out of the OA.

So yeah there is hippocracy esp when it comes to BSA/LDS relations.

for those who want to get and read a copy of this publication it can be ordered here:

http://www.ldscatalog.com/

its item number 35814000 and its free. Terrifying read when you consider the ramifications this would have in legitimate scouting.

Hooooboy,

First, I never set aside my faith. I only withhold proselyting to boys. If they ask about catholicism I answer honestly. If they continue peppering me with questions I'll defer them to RCIA programs. But honestly, I grew up LDS/mormon and have always hated the idea that to minister to someone you have to tell them that any faith but yours is wrong. Its as bad as an EBOR saying any thing outside of judeo/christian is not reverent. It has no place in scouting. As anyone in Pine Tree will tell you, I don't back down and have taken on Salt Lake personally over issues that happened when i was on camp staff 2 years ago.

As for BP, the Catholic Church's Committee of the Causes of the Saints ruled in 1983 under the auspices of the Pastoral Provision of 1980, that christian member of the anglican communion who were found to meet the standards for the veneration/beatification/canonization process could be considered canonizable under the same terms that allow anglican protestants to convert without undergoing the RCIA/conversion process required under canon law. All that said, when i told AB Sheehan this, i said it in jest, because he aske me if i thought BP was a member of the Trinity.

But all this should be really another thread, as this one is about EBORs

Bob white

When kevin asked me to work on the Ygdrassil with him it was because i can put my own beliefs aside for scouting. To wit, prior to our last round of elections our troop had a Luthern SPL, Catholic ASPL, and one of our PLs was buddhist. I'm so good at it that my Arch bishop has questioned me about the whole first commandment asking if I was not putting BP in front of JC. I told him no, but i was praying for BP's canonisation. But my faith is my faith and the scout's faith is his. My job as a scouter is to help him excell in every aspect of the Law and Oath. Without evangelising the scout. In fact, missionary work, i.e. proselyting, was part of my problem growing up LDS. The attitude of "every member a missionary" never rang true for me. Even when parents insisted, i.e. cut off college funds, that i serve a two year mission. I went but got lucky and was sent to a predominantly catholic nation that reaffirmed my conversion to Catholicism while i was there. I'll have to share the paternal interview story later.

But for Kevin and I we have i deal. I help him get through the Ygdrassil approval process and he helped me pass physics and calculus and trig and chem and organic chem....

Part of our plan is to do an education campaign with the national execs. We feel that if they understood the natural organisation of modern Wicca/Paganism, they'd better be able to review the requirements and maybe set aside the central orgnization requirment. If not, he's going to do his best to form one or take a lesson from the ACLU and sue for discrimination witht he goal of litigation being the courts saying that the requirement for a central org is discriminatory and force them to reconsider. Not the way i'd do it but hey, he felt denied as a scout when others were getting there awards and he was left holding the stick.

As for distractions from my studies...meh. All work and no scouting makes buffalo joe likely to charge.

Last frontier Council Class of 88 ECOH--3/17/88

I remember there was a lot of green that night....

If you think your ready go for it.

Lisabob,

I know that even if I were to leave scouting i would still use my wb skills. I used them a lot as an intake specialist in the Maine DOC. By understanding all the communication styles and storming, forming, norming performing and snoring business, i was better able to detect when trouble was brewing in the pod.

I also know that I tend to use it in my new job, just at different levels.

let see since college, the first time around:

Taught high school history, was a polish translator for the Salt Lake Olympics, and prison guard...

Now: Gave up reality to become a Catholic Seminarian. Hey, it was a promise... if I hit 35 was was unmarried, i'd give it a try. It seems to be working better than my efforts at dating.

SSScouter,

If you had been in Last Frontier council back in the late 80's you would have seen another boy in a similar situation.

I have a Jewish Mother, Latter Day Saint father and converted to Catholicism in high school. As a consequnce I had the On My Honor, Ner Tamid, and the Ad Altare Dei. Now all i have is a roman collar and working on a couple of beads.

Hermes,

Yes the Religious Awards are part of the scouting program. And only reason a person would be reasonable to question the DL on the exercise is if it was in the way of normal advancement or more importantly causing a boy undue or unnecessary stress. But the point is valid, in that this type of activity is best reserved for Dens/Packs/Troops that are of one unified faith such as the LDS troops... but those are a whole other bag of worms.(This message has been edited by buffalojoe)

funny this should be my first post.

Let me first say this, I tend to be KGB about rules. Second, EBOR questions shouldn't be pointed. What MacyM's son went through was inexcusabe and the DR should be dropped in a lake.

For me this question is tenuous at best. I'm an assistant scoutmaster, wood badger and Catholic Seminarian who is working with a friend from college to develop a Wiccan/Pagan religious award after one of my own scouts announced he was considering becoming a druid. So who knew? But one thing I am certain about, is that too often EBOR's skip out on the God/god/gods/goddess/goddess question or in short, 12th point of the scout law.

I know at my own EBOR back in December of 87 I wasn't asked about the 12th point. I was grilled instead on the 11th point that resulted in the answer "If i wasn't clean, you'd know it." But I digress.

BP chose the first and last points of the scout law for a reason. He felt they were the two most important. And every scout should be made aware of this. If a scout doesn't have that vertical relationship with a higher power as he understands it to be (borrowed from AA sorry), then the other 11 points foundations are eroded. Secondarily, if he doesn't believe in a God, be it the God of Judeo-Christendom/Islam, Vishnu, Buddha, heck, we even have a Mithraic Religious award so Mithras, then he professes the Oath in vain and essentially discredits his own trustworthyness. So it is appropriate for a EBOR to ask "How do you incorporate/honor the 12th point of the Law into your daily life."

AS leaders its our job to help prevent this from happening. While its the parents job to direct the scout's religious path according to their understanding, its our job to be supplemental to the preparation. We help, while not intruding. So when a scout asks me questions about God/god, I try and redirect him back to his family. If that fails or the family is absent then I do my best without trying to proselyte. Which can be hard to do and frustrating as a seminarian. But our job is only to supplement the parents and guide them in the ways of scouting.

So anyway, I think i'm going to snag the vertical relationship manifested in horizontal service as well... Good homily fodder.

Peace out,

Buffalo Joe