Tiger Foot

Does anyone have an excel spreadsheet they would be willing to share?  Google has turned up the pack budget one from BSA, but that's all I've found.  A search here found mention of several, but I didn't see anything I could download.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the advice everyone and quick responses.

I've sent an email to the rest of the pack committee that basically follows Qwazse's advice... have an official meeting, make an official motion and then vote to accept a 'starting balance' that we received from previous leadership.  Also an outline of stuff to cover and put in place for future financial accountability and transparency. 

If the rest of the gang isn't on board, then I'll follow the advice to move on.  At that point, I don't know what else I could do since it would be clear I'm the only one with this level of discomfort concerning the issue.

TF, you seem sure about how the $ went out. Are you equally sure about how they went in? In other words, are you sure that the former CM/DL's didn't put in, say, $700 the year before?

 

Either way, that issue is not yours to resolve or reconcile. Either way the past lack of accountability stinks.

 

What matters is if everybody is willing to go forward differently once you ask for more transparency and accountability.

As sure as I can be I guess.

We've been able to reconcile all the large deposits with fundraising activities.

I would think if there was an extra $700 or whatever in the account, we'd be over not short- we'd be asking, hey, where did this extra $700 come from, not why are we short money.

I also think the old CM would have informed me or the CC of that when I started pushing about these financial issues and it was revealed that he spent pack money sending his own sons and his friends sons to camp, right?

Ok, I was trying to see whether there could be any justification for just "letting it go", but based on your answers, I guess there really isn't.

 

Have you actually spoken with the CC about this yet?  You express some concerns about what his attitude may be.  But have you actually given him a chance to do something about it?

Yes, I've spoken with him on numerous occasions... phone, email, facebook chats, face to face, and we've held several meetings of the new pack committee.

'Concerns' might be too strong a word.  I think he is a really good guy and has been working very hard to try and recoup at least some of this money and solve this issue.  But I also seem to be getting information piecemeal from him... each new answer comes in an email that also reveals a new issue.

So, yes, I'm confident he's trying to fix it, but I'm not confident I'm getting all the details, and if that's the case I would guess it's because he's trying to preserve his relationship with the old CM, which I understand.  Just makes me wonder how many more landmines are waiting to be discovered I guess.

Yes, we had 16 kids attend camp last year, and 4 leaders.  Yes, other scouts would have attended if the pack had offset some or all of the cost.  No, that option was not made available to the whole pack.

I don't know if that meets anyone's definition of stealing, but it certainly doesn't seem right.

It would be one thing if the leadership had come together and said hey, we're going to sponsor some kids to go to camp.  But nothing remotely close to that happened.  

Instead the CM used pack funds to send his own sons to camp, and the sons of his friend to camp, completely on his own.

If parents did know that was how their money was being spent, I don't think they would be happy.  I'm sure many of their boys could have used some financial help to attend camp as well.

 

I'm sorry to be vague.

About $200 of the missing funds was spent on resident camp fees for the outgoing cub masters two sons last summer.  Another $520 was spent on resident camp fees for the AOL den leaders two sons to go to resident camp last summer.

There are no committee meeting notes from last year and there really was no committee last year.

That doesn't account for everything that's missing, but it is a large chunk of it.

The charter org is and has been very hands off.  The COR is an elderly vet with health issues who really hasn't done more than sign off on applications that I'm aware of.  I've only met him, very briefly, once, at our Charter organizations facility.  At this point, I think he is house bound.

The current committee chair was our cubmaster previous to the one I was replacing.  He took the CC position after turning over CM to the guy I am now replacing.  As CC he was very hands off, almost no involvement until I had the blowout I detailed in a previous post.  At that point he stepped back in/up, and I've been pressuring him about dues and financial stuff ever since.  The CC and the CM I'm replacing have a relationship outside scouts, but I'm really hoping that isn't affecting his decision making... They are in a fraternal organization together.

Edit- The pack treasurer is also brand new.  She is the one who first brought the discrepancies to my attention.

 

Hello all, I've been gobbling up all your advice from my previous posts and trying to implement it.  Now I'm afraid I've uncovered an even more serious situation, and would welcome more advice.  I'll try and keep it brief and drama free.

It appears our accounts are short by a little less than a thousand dollars.

I know some of this money has been spent inappropriately by the CM I have now replaced.

I was not aware of how much it was, where it came from, what it was spent on, or that the decision to disburse it was made only by him until yesterday... a day after I officially took over as the new CM.

I feel I am now on the hook for this, as the new, incoming CM.  I think the right thing to do is the bring the records I have, the information I'm sure of, and my suspicions about the rest to our council, with our committee chair in tow and see where it goes.  And I think if the CC disagrees r refuses, I should resign and go to council anyway.  Someone needs to be made aware of these missing funds, and aware of how at least some of them were spent and by who.

I know that's not a lot of detail, but I'd appreciate your advice.

 

Is there any official training for new pack trainers other than the pack committee videos?

I have a leader who wants to do this. I know I'd like him to attend pow wows, round table and whatever else is offered... but is there anything specific to being/becoming a pack trainer he should try and take?

More generally...

If you have a pack trainer, what kinds of things does this leader do for your pack? For example... would they pretty much run recruiting activities from top to bottom? Or maybe just help get the new Den Leaders you find through training? Something in between? I know, it probably depends. But I'd love to hear your ideas and thoughts, what works for you.

Thanks!

Very nice!

I can't thank you all enough. I was feeling pretty beat down when I posted this. Not at all sure I wanted to take this on, ready to move on.

It's so nice to be able to get objective, outside, helpful and encouraging advice and experience. Thank you.

That's fantastic advice Eagledad. Right now Den leaders are doing everything. We are are exhausted. My wife and I were saying the same thing this morning so I'm glad to see you say it and confirm our thoughts.

The sad thing is, we really don't even do actual pack meetings like you all are describing. Dens all meet in the same building, same time each week, and we wind up having a mini pack meeting each week... which is really just the CM rambling for about 20 to 30 minutes of the hour we all meet. It's no wonder we've morphed into a drop and run pack. Even with my prodding, the most I've even reigned him in by is maybe 10-15 minutes. Pack meetings (party, family fun night?) have to be during pack time, if we have parent volunteers to run it. Dens need to get their Den meeting time back, and Den leaders get to be Den leaders again.

Thanks for distilling 20 years of wisdom for me!

CalicoPenn, that's mostly correct... his wife and daughter were kinda sorta doing it. He decided to provide the option for paying dues monthly (another unilateral, un-communicated decision) and now we know we have folks who are behind, but they also did not keep/give receipts for the dues they did collect, so... it's a pickle. He also decided he wanted to put Scout account balances online, but we stopped that one before it got very far.

I'm really, really glad the woman we tapped agreed. She is meeting with the former treasurer tonight I think to start getting a handle on it.

Thanks for all the info Hedgehog!

After Action Report does sound tedious... I meant that after we finish an event we just need to jot down some final thoughts. What went right, what didn't, any ideas for next year. Otherwise a year goes by and then everyone is scratching their heads trying to remember at thing we were going to do. I just didn't know what to call it.

And with JTE, I just want to focus on those areas. I was thinking the categories provided a good roadmap... trained leaders, an actual budget, a committee that meets and plans. I don't care so much about reaching the levels or filling out that spreadsheet. I thought it just pointed to some of the things I need to focus on first.

I'm already working on #1... another den leader and I approached a good candidate for treasurer and she's agreed. The current CM does the group ask and gets frustrated when no one replies to his increasingly desperate pleas. But he won't try it my way... asking 1 on 1 is so much more successful. And I've asked all the Den Leaders to give me two names of parents they think would be willing to more so I can start planting seeds. Hearing you and bbender both emphasize this gives me a boost in confidence.

And I love #3. This is so brilliantly simple I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it! We assign potluck categories by Den, why not duties for those parents too! I'm such a dope, lol.

Your plan looks awesome. I think I'm gonna steal the whole thing and suggest it for next year.

Thank you so so so much!

Thanks Cubmaster Pete. I initially took all the online courses, I'm going to retake them to ensure I have a thorough understanding of how things should work, and pickup the book Qwazse listed.

No sense reinventing the wheel!

I didn't see any trainer for the pack trainer position... I think a pack trainer could/would be a good asset for a pack trying to regroup and rebuild.

Mine is good for 2 years. The certification and instructor were from Solo, in New Hampshire, and the course was put on by council. The cost was $150. CPR was offered as well for those who needed it for another $50.

It was a fun class. I can't imagine I'll use it much with cub scouts, but I enjoyed it, and knowledge is always a plus.

Thanks for the encouraging words Back Pack.

Thanks Qwazse. When I first became I den leader, I took all the available online training. I don't think it would hurt me at all to go through it again. And I'll pick up a copy of the leaders guide next week.

Thank you bbender, I've been gobbling up your 50 ways to lure a leader and the other resources I've found on your site since Monday.

And that's what I mean, using B&G banquet as an example... If we can't get VIP guests because no one wants to ask, if we can't organize a potluck, if no one wants to head up decorations, and all the other things we've tried to do in the past... Then let's not KICMEH. Let's not pile it on the leaders to accomplish.

Maybe instead we do a simpler party. A birthday cake and awards. Maybe some skits from each den and games.

And if we can't do that, maybe we just do awards. Thanks so much for sharing, I'll keep reading!

Hello everyone, I've gotten wonderful advice here in the past and I'm hoping I can get your thoughts and advice again. I'm sorry for the length of this post. I've tried to briefly lay out the current situation, and what I'd like to try and do, but if you need more details, I'll provide them.

The background:

-I'm serving as ACM, Wolf Den Leader, and Lion Guide.

-Our Charter Org and COR are very hands off. They sign applications and ask us if we are raking up the leaves at the American Legion each fall, and that's about it. We enjoy lots of freedom.

-Our CC is our former cubmaster. We all love him. Very personable, and committed to making sure the boys have a good program. That's his oft stated goal, above all else. He wants me to take over as cubmaster, so much so that he and his wife took my wife and I out for coffee to make his pitch again last night, after several lengthy phone calls with me.

-We have become largely a 'drop and run' pack. Not much help from parents outside those who are currently serving as den leaders. This has placed way too much workload on those den leaders and stress is high. Pack size doubled this year adding to the stress. Changing this drop and run culture is a priority in my opinion.

-Current Cubmaster is a mess. Has big plans and makes unilateral decisions without making sure we have the financial resources and manpower to accomplish what he has committed us to. I've spent a lot of time this year putting out fires and cleaning up messes, and it's why I'm serving in multiple roles (though I've been able to delegate much of wolves and lions to helpers). He has a problem working with women. He has played fast and lose with finances, and no one knows what the state of the budget is. He has an acrimonious relationship with council, though I don't know if this is actually just scapegoating on his part. He keeps information close until the last minute. He makes a decision, commits us, and then dumps it in are lap a month later to figure out now that time has run out. There are other issues as well. On the plus side, he is good at planning and carrying out large, one time type events, but these are usually because he's created an emergency... Like a car wash to raise money so we can buy awards before the next pack meeting.

-These issues finally came to a head this week as we tried to finalize plans for pinewood derby. For months he's been telling us everything is covered. But it's not. Initially he told us a single girls out troop was joining us (10-12 girls scouts). Somehow, that number ballooned to 62 girls, a few more than our entire pack. We don't have enough hours in the day to conduct that many races. As the other leaders and I started making changes to try and accommodate this bombshell, he lost it. He posted his resignation in which he blamed me specifically for not helping, and other leaders generally, and called out a female leader for helping him reach his decision to resign. The CC stepped in and called a meeting.

-At the meeting I lost my temper (very unscoutlike I'm afraid). I took him to task for his scapegoating and blame shifting, how his leadership style and decision making prevents us from helping, and his authoritarian style in general. Everything I said was on point and accurate, but I shouldn't have yelled it. I have since apologized to everyone generally (at the end of the meeting) and to each person individually, including the current cubmaster.

-Me: I'm also a mess at this point. I can't continue like this, it's causing friction at home, and it's not the experience we want for our boys. I am fairly confident I could make changes and improve things at this pack, but I'm equally confident I could restart the pack in our town, and the old cubmaster and assistant cubmaster would be willing to mentor and guide my wife and I through the process. Our current CC would also help us if we choose to do so, though he really wants us to stay. Restarting a smaller pack has a lot of appeal to me. I'm confident I could do either, or even start a different youth organization, though I'm still working through what would be best for my family, and how I can best serve my community at large.

Current Situation:

Current cubmaster has rescinded his resignation and wants to stay on till next February. I'm not okay with this. Several den leaders feel the same, not sure about all of them though.

What the committee chair told me last night is that he would like to gently facilitate the current cubmaster stepping down at crossover. At that point I would take over. We discussed some of the high level changes I would like to try and make and he was very supportive and thinks the other leaders will be as well. He understands we will likely experience a drop in enrollment as a result of the changes I'd like and possibly lose some leaders too. And that changing culture pack wide will probably take several years.

And while I think this decision is ultimately his (Charter Org will support whatever he does) I really don't want him to just announce and install me as the new cubmaster... Instead, I'd like to present an outline of my plan to the other leaders and get their buy in before taking the position. It makes no sense to me (to be put in charge) if I want to go right and the rest of the team wants to go left. To do what I think should be done requires their help and collaboration. If we aren't on the same page, it will be another year of grinding frustration... Just a different type. I don't want that for myself, and I don't want to cause it for anyone else. The CC thinks this is a good idea as well. If they aren't on board, I will happily move on to plan B, C, or D and step aside with no ill will.

My Plan Outline:

1. Create an 'Every Parent Helps' culture. The resources I've seen posted here are great. I'll use them to set this expectation with new scout families coming into the pack, and to get more parents to step up. I know I'll experience some pushback and will lose some folks. But den leaders are burning out. This is a top priority.

2. The Journey To Excellence scorecard drives everything we do. I don't mean we'll actually win ribbons and patches and stuff... But that we focus on those areas. And by focusing intensely on those areas, we start to rebuild the pack and set it up for future success. We may be smaller, we may not have big events (we're not pulling them off successfully anyway right now), but we'll deliver a good quality program again with people who enjoy doing it.

3. KISMIF becomes are watchword, our benchmark for all decisions for the foreseeable future. If it's not going to be fun for scouts, families, and leaders, we don't do it. If it's not simple enough to hand off to a few parents, or to convince a few parents they can put it together, we don't do it. If we can't get parents to sign up for cleanup duty after a B&G banquet, we don't do it.

4. Everything we do decide to do gets simplified and systematized... Notes, contacts, money spent, ideas, after action reports... It all goes in a binder or file for the next year, so new folks aren't starting from scratch again. I guess the pack used to do this, but it's been lost to the sands of time or something. Each event this year has been a scramble making it so much harder than it had to be to pull off.

If you've read this dissertation, you have my eternal thanks. I have to flesh this out still (how am I go into do what I'm going to do), but I've got goals and a vision I think I can execute. And if no one else wants to work towards my goals and vision, I'm at a place where I can step aside or walk away without any hard feelings or ill will towards anyone.

So... Am I crazy?

I think this can work. I've got new leaders ready to go for tigers next year, and I've gotten a few parents to step into committee roles that have been vacant too long, so it's not all bad news. But I'm trying not fooling myself about how much work this will actually be.

This is awesome, thank you so much. I feel like our pack has been slowly imploding all year and getting more help will help alleviate the burnout.

I want to implement all these ideas... Starting 6 months ago.

Thank you all again, here's a quick update after tonight's meeting:

The previous cubmaster got back to me and agreed with my basic plan. Can't tell you how nice it is to have experienced ears to listen to your ideas! With his help, the current cubmaster was much more engaged tonight as well.

I got the tiger den split into two dens, 10 scouts each. In den 1, I have a den leader and assistant, and those parents have divided up adventures and have a good start on mapping out their year. In den 2, I have a den leader, and several possible assistants. These are the parents who contemplated starting their own den... They had a bit more to discuss. At this point I think they want to stay and are just going to meet on a different night.

I also got all our current leaders to help me out tonight so I could talk with parents... Go team!

I started with an apology, that we should have had an orientation of some sort for them. Then I did the visual demonstration of s scouts years from up thread. That drew a lot of smiles and helped dispel the last of the frustration. Then we talked about shared leadership, adult partners, and the need to be involved. They were pretty well primed, and most of the parents stepped right up.

After that it was mostly answering questions and facilitating.

I think it went pretty well on all fronts... I'm guardedly calling this a success.

And to top it off, I have two Lion parents with previous scout experience who want to serve as guides/leaders, so I should be able to split them very soon as well.

The final cherry... The current leaders hung around afterwards and we put together a rough plan for a new scout orientation next year that will incorporate many of the ideas you all have shared.

I think we're on track now. I feel much, much better than when I started this post. I really appreciate you all sharing your experience!

The amount I don't know about scouting could fill volumes!