SouthScout

Why didn't BSA just start a parallel program and call it Girl Guides. BP did it.

The DEs are not compensated well. From my research for the year 2014 I found that the DEs in our council had salaries around $38,000.00. The Assistant Scout Executive was $135,000.00. The Director of program (camps and activities guy) made $135,000.00 and the Scout executive made $208,000.00. The director of program guy was one of the most worthless people I have known. 

The DEs work extremely hard, but I rarely see them at pack meetings or troop meetings. In Sept of each year we see the DEs at elementary school round ups. The pressure to have new scouts register and pay that night was so bad that it turned new scouts and parents away.  DE turnover is extremely high.

Whats your breaking point? What does it take for you to say enough, I'm out?

I have had numerous calls and conversations with fellow scouters asking what i was going to do about girls being allowed into the BSA. Was I going to stay with BSA or leave? Most of the questions came after the announcement of including girls. Once the info-graphic about how girls troops would work and be formed at the chartered organization the conversations became more frequent. With the name change media release two weeks ago many scouters and local business people are cutting off FOS donations. With the news of LDS leaving the BSA I have had several scouters call and say they are done as they don't see how BSA can right the ship now. Several of these scouters have sons that are Webelos I so they don't feel that Boy Scouts is worth the time and effort due to all the changes.

I have two sons in our troop. The oldest is 1st class and probably 2 -3 years from Eagle. The second is a 1st year scout. I am beginning my 8th year as a leader and always thought I would stay with scouting, but the most recent decision by national, regarding girl units, have almost pushed me out of the program. I am wondering what is my breaking point. I do not trust National. Each time they release new information it takes the wind out of my sails and I feel its not worth the effort. If my CO starts a girl unit, that's a deal breaker. If girl units are at summer camp, that's a deal breaker. If the new handbook is dual gender, that's a deal breaker. If the new uniforms no longer have "Boy Scouts of America" printed on them, that's a deal breaker. Coed troops/patrols, that's a deal breaker.

I am very close to leaving, but there is so much good in the patrol method and what is does for boys becoming men, it is hard to walk away. Coed scouting will be the death of the patrol method which will be the death of the Boy Scouts that BP and Hillcourt envisioned.

I view the BSA as a business and I, as an assistant scoutmaster, am a shareholder. My investment is the large amount of time and effort i put into my unit. I view paying the executives extremely large salaries in a time of desperation as a poor business practice. I believe that the decline in scouting is a result of poor business decisions on part of the executives. I, as many shareholders (volunteers working with boys) are beginning to sell their stock and get out of scouting. I have lost faith in the CEOs of the BSA. Unfortunately the board of directors is not a representation of the volunteers who are in the field working with the boys. Therefore we don't have a vote and the executives don't really care what our opinion is. They will learn this lesson the hard way......AGAIN. Just as they did in the 1970s. Who will be the next Hillcourt to save the BSA?

BSA_Form_990_Tax_Return.pdf

BSA Board of Directors.pdf

As everyone knows the real reason for all of the membership changes and introduction of girls is due to financial reasons. The BSA executives need to begin cutting their own salaries. Take a look at the attached 2016 Tax Return form 990. See page 91 for the salaries of some of the executives. Its clear that the program is suffering to support high salaries. Mike Surbaugh $718,296.00. 

Here is the link to Guidestar for non profit info https://www.guidestar.org/profile/22-1576300

Reach out to the board members below and let them know if you are not satisfied with the direction of the BSA.

BOARD CHAIR

Randall Stephenson  email at rs2982@att.com

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, AT&T

Term: May 2016 - May 2018

Wayne Perry
Past- President
Shotgun Creek Investments LLC  11245 SE 6th Street, Suite 240, Bellevue, WA 98004
(D) 425-519-3988
(F) 425-526-5862

Joe Landy
Vice President- Operations
Warburg Pincus New York Headquarters  212-878- 0600

Lyle Knight
Vice President- Human Resources
First Interstate Bank

401 North 31st Street
Billings, Montana 59116

406-255-5390

R. Thomas Buffenbarger
Assistant Treasurer
International Association of Machinists and Aerospaace Workers

9000 Machinists Place
Upper Marlboro, Maryland 20772-268

301-967-4500

Randall Stephenson
President Elect
AT&T

David Steward
Vice President- Information Delivery
World Wide Technology Inc. 800-432-7008

Tico Perez
National Commissioner
No Affiliation

Matthew Rose
Vice President- Development
Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp

2650 Lou Menk Drive
Fort Worth, Texas 76131

800-795-2673

Joe Crafton     joe@joecrafton.com

Wing Shooter Investments
Wingshooter Investments 6065 Sherry Lane Dallas Texas 75225

David Weekley
Vice President- Marketing

David Weekley Homes

1111 North Post Oak RoadHouston, TX 77055Call: (713) 963-0500Fax: (713) 963-0322

Drayton McLane
Vice President
McLane Group  http://www.mclanegroup.com/home/contact-us/

Jack Furst
Vice President - General Services
No Affiliation

James Turley
Treasurer
Ernst & Young

Aubrey Harwell
Vice President
Neal & Harwell, Attorneys-at-Law

Nathan Rosenberg
Vice President
Insigniam   https://insigniam.com/contact/

BSA_Form_990_Tax_Return.pdf

BSA Board of Directors.pdf

I received a forwarded email this morning from our Assistant Scout Executive. Our local council does a fund drive every year. They ask for donations of $250.00 and up from wealthy donors to attend a luncheon with a guest speaker. The email I received was from a fellow scouter who donated $800.00 last year and declined to donate this year due to the recent decisions by national. The email also stated the fund drive was well below the $750,000.00 annual donations from years past at this same time.

I was also informed that the LDS scouts reserve our entire camp exclusively for themselves for 2 weeks every summer. Not anymore. Our scout camp is on its last leg already.

Many scouters in my area are no longer supporting the fund drives, council sponsored events or actions that benefit the council. Everything is solely for their units.

Back in the day (here he goes), Boy Scouts was the only game in town where I could be with friends and AWAY from  Mom, DAD, and annoying adults.  There was some adult association but not the domination of today and definitely not the counter-productive Family Scouting. Leadership followed naturally  and to a much lesser extent advancement. The Outdoors was our playing field and not a million dollar Council Resource Center.

 

Go back to training scouts towards patrol and individual solo (adultless) outdoor adventures. Outward Bound, AMC, and some school outing clubs  do this.

 

Less fear, more brave.

 

My $0.02

This is best post yet related to the crisis we face. 

Hey all, Thanks for the replies. I appologize for my bad spelling in my original post. I can't seem to figure out how to edit the post now.

Fred Johnson, It's not nesessarily that modern communication is a problem as it is how it is administered and what the impact is on our scouts and the patrol method.

What I am observing is the same as blw2. Batch emails give the impression that the parents are doing everthing for their scouts. Receiving and acting on information is something that the scout must do for himself to develop and learn. If parents receive the information in the same batch email, I would wager that they would be sure to "remind" their son if he forgot to complete a task. This takes away the consequences of the scouts failure to act on information he has received. He never learns from his mistake.

Batch emails to parents and scouts is surely the most efficeint and easiest way to be sure the task is completed, but "The object of the patrol method is not so much saving the Scoutmaster trouble as to give responsibility to the boy"

I am a Webelos den leader and our den has visited 5 different troops in our search for one to crossover to. I am now on 4 of the five troop email distribution lists and have been for almost a year. Almost all of the emails I receive are from the scoutmaster, committe member or other adult leader and are usually adressing the parents. The topics of the emails range from what will be covered at the next meeting, when to drop off and pick up son for camping, scheduling a scoutmaster conference, advancement issues, what uniform to wear, etc.

The emails are batch emals sent out to parents, scouts and leaders together. It appears to me that the Patrol Method and personal reposnsibility cannot develop and succeed when batch emails are sent out to parents. The process of receiving, digesting, recodring and acting on information received from leaders, whether patrol leader, SPL or Scoutmaster is a huge part of growing and learning to handle personal responsibility.

My personal story. When I was a young tenderfoot scout in 1979. My father would drive me to the church every Monday night. He would drop me off and I would run into the church for the scout meeting and he would drive down to the pool hall for an hour or so and come back and get me. Well one Monday night he dropped me off and he pulled away. I got to the doors of the scout room and they were locked. No one was around anywhere. The church was locked and of course I had no cell phone to call my dad, heck I didn’t know the phone number at the pool hall if there had been a pay phone nearby. So I sat on the steps for an hour and half and waited. He came back to get me and I told him what happened. He was not upset or concerned. That’s how things were in those days. The next week he takes me to the church, but this time he comes in with me and I explain to the scoutmaster that I arrived the week before and no one was around. The scoutmaster informed me and my dad that at the meeting 2 weeks earlier an announcement was made about no meeting the following week. I obviously was not paying attention or forgot. Most likely it went in one ear and out the other. I was a hapless 12 year old you know. However, what I learned was invaluable to my understanding of personal responsibility and my growth as a scout and person. I learned to take on a little more responsibility that night as I “learned from my mistakeâ€.

I have spoken with numerous other leaders about how their troops communicate and almost all of them say with batch emails to parents and scouts together. They all say its a great system and works really well. I'm sure it does, they are sending emails to parents who have jobs that use email or have already learned to process, record and act on important information or instructions. What are the boys getting out of it....just more of their parents telling them what to do and managing their schedules for them.

I have one friend who is a scoutmaster and he does not use email very often. Mainly becasue he is not much on being bothered with it. He says that all announcements are given to the scouts at the troop meeting they are to relay any important info to their parents. He says he will get a call from a parent weekly or one will show up at a meeting mad becasue they were not aware of an event, outing, etc. He simply tells them it was mentioned at the meeting and your son was aware of it. This is the only troop I know of that operates this way.

How does your troop handle troop and patrol comminuction?

So what happens to page 120? How long before the liberals find page 120 and force the change. You know the liberals will be some kind of upset that page 120 discusses "pregnancy" can't have that with gay scouts or leaders. Gonna have to remove it. Also you see the discussion of boys being attracted to girls who are becoming women. Nope, can't have that either.

Wait a minute. Whats up with page 120? I thought the BSA did not discuss sexual matters.

Does this photo not make you think twice about what BSA has now allowed. A male adult scout leader is leading a group male scouts in a celebration of male on male sex. You can spin it anyway you want, but the rainbow flag is a symbol of the homosexual lifestyle and the homosexual lifestyle is about...gay SEX. Yes, it is about sex. So how can anyone say that sex has no place in scouting and will not be discussed, so allowing gay scouts and leaders wont be a problem. Clearly in this photo the enitre event is about sex and the scouts are used to promote it. Its about sex.

Would we ever celebrate an adult male leader being granted approval to take girl scouts camping? Or celebrate a 14 year old straight boy scout being allowed to tent with a striaght 14 year old girl scout.

In many discussion on this forum and with other scouters I hear that sexuality is not even discussed or an issue in the BSA and never has been part of the program in the past so why should it be an issue with allowing gay leaders or gay scouts. WHAT!!! How does anyone even reason with that thought or come to that conclusion? The whole thing about being gay is sexual attraction. Gay males are attracted to the male figure. We hear that gay adults will not be attracted to 17 year old and younger scouts. Just look at the perversion files which were recently released. Why do we have youth protection policies? Why don't we allow straight adult leaders, female leaders or girl scouts to tent with boys?

Now I don't have a problem with gay marriage and what 2 consenting adults choose to do in their bedroom is their business, but the Boy Scouts is no place for males who are attracted to males. By allowing it we are putting our scouts in danger.