BPwannabe@137

If through your efforts you get even one kid "off the streets" then your program is a success. Anyone who wants to help their community has my support.

However, (you know that was coming)

I am currently a cub leader (and a former boy scout and sea explorer leader) and have found that the BSA programs were pretty flexable, expecially with the exploring program(now called venturing). We designed our own uniforms (actually, they were just Coast Guard uniforms with Sea Scout insignia) and developed our entire program. It was a success.

A wise old commissioner once told me: you can be flexable with the program, but you can't change policy. Thats because policy is put in place to protect your ass (ie youth protection). I know that some people disagree with certain policies of the BSA (such as the gay issue) but on the whole, the organization and program is pretty darn good.

Whatever path you may take, may it be a safe one. Good luck.

I just went into the new "national" scout shop in Westchester Putnam Council and found for sale full square neckerchiefs with a reprint of the 1923 book "Scouting with a neckerchief" and enough rope to make a turks head slide. $20.00 for the package. I recommed all scouters to buy one. They come in about six different colors, even blue and gold for use cub leaders.

I talked to the employee who said that alot of scouters have been asking for two items: the OD necktie to wear with the uniform (as show on the uniform inspection sheets) and field caps.

I think we like minded people need to start a letter writting campaign to have the BSA bring back some older items including the historical equipment. With our 100th anniversary approaching, I would like to see a reintroduction of an OD colored scouter uniform, with necktie. Or how about this, a dress jacket (tunic) made in the same material as the poly/wool field uniform. I have two dress uniforms circa 1970, complete with jacket (actually called a blouse-it has three buttons down the frount and four pockets-like an army dress jacket) and I am always complemented on how it looks. Well, lets get the BSA to reproduce that.

SR540Beaver,

Good point and one that I totally overlooked.

When I asked several older brother of cubs and aksed why they are not scouts, the number one answer is that they don't do anything interesting. (again, I get bakc to my original statement). Second is uniform. (and yes, the yound men and boys I asked said they would prefer a more rugged looking uniform)Last, like which was previously stated, patriotism and rules are uncool. However, as the Beaver pointed out, we are an organization with ideas and beliefs, and are targeted for that. Don;t you think kids and teenagers in church choir or alterboys are also targeted and made fun of?

One of the goals of scouting is to teach young men to stand up for what they believe in and not "follow the crowd". It is very tough today, but no tougher then in the 1960s or the 1930's.

Scouting will never reach all youth. Too many will never want to stand against peer pressure and join an orgainzation that has values and a morals. It is ashame, but it is a fact of life.

Bob White: Re:Chartered Organizations

Once again, you are correct.

Scouting has always gotten a bad rap because the boys are supposed to be "a bunch of do gooders". Don't forget, everyone loves the bad boy (thus the popularity of ganster rap and violent hip hop).

I do agree that scouting has lost it's rugged image. Sometime after the Vietnam War, this country underwent serious social changes. If you want to see how it effected scouting, read the 1970's era handbook. Uniforms became uncool and anything military was very uncool.

Now role around the 1980's. Although there was a new spur of patriotism, the new generation was "me" orientated. This culture of instant gratification and self importantce really went against the grain of what scouting is all about. Now I was a scout in the 1980's, but in an urban troop. Our leaders really pushed outdoors and rugged activities. Winter camping, backpacking, wilderness survivial, rifle and shotgun shooting, and other-now don't get scared-military type skills. Remember, Rambo was really big in the 1980's. So all this outdoor stuff really appealed to kids from the city. Yet we still had a traditional troop, patrol method with up to 60 scouts, a leadership corp, JASM's and about 6 scouters. Although we went to the same local scout camp each month, it still was an adventure. Oh by the way, everyone was uniformed too-and we were from a lower class area too.

Now that I am a scouter, living in a suburban affluent area, I see the kids parents have differnt ideas. I came into a pack two years ago and found parents who don't want to see their children given rules to follow, told what to wear, and involved in "rugged" outdoor activities. Sports are highly pushed because it lets the parents live out their dreams through their children (and often at games, they act like children too).

Now I am cubmaster and have slowly worked to bring traditional scouting pack to my pack. Some parents think its really cool and are now pushing their sons in my direction. Others are going along with the program. A few have expressed they do not like it and will drop out (the kids however want to stay!) Before anyone jumps down my throat, I am not teaching anything that is not in the cub scout books. But little things like respect for older people, wearing a uniform, camping and outdoor cooking, doing KP rather then using paper plates, sleeping in tents rather then the inside of a car, that really upset some parents???

SOrry-again I am off the topic. One final thought. We need to improve our image. Stop with the posters of dorking kids (who are probibly not scouts) modeling uniforms doing dorky things (like selling popcorn) You want to get boys back into scouting. Show them camping, hiking, shooting, working on emergency prepardness, boating, and other things that the founders wanted boys to do. We need to offer activites that the boys can not get in school.

And we need to go back to OD uniforms too. Sorry, just had to add that.

I really never grew up.

Wanted to join the army and see the world. Two really cool scoutmasters ( mine and a friend) talked me out of it. Told me I had another destiny. One was a pacifist and thought that the army sucked. The other was a Nam vet and also thought the army sucked.

Anyway, I became a national park ranger. I love being a ranger but the park service sucks.

Go figure.

VentureScoutNY:

The wool breeches are more of a brown color then green. They don;t match the current issue pants, but more closely to the 1960's leaders wool uniform (you can get these off of ebay) I have a 1940's (or maybe 50's) BSA leaders wool shirt and it matches perfect. The breeches really wouldn't look bad with the current issue tan shirt either.

I haven't worn the wrap arounds yet, but I will on our next camping trip. The leather leggings look good but are a little stiff for outdoor type stuff (the leathers were for officers-thus less manual labor). The bottoms lace up so you have to wear something to cover the legs. You also need high socks (stockings). I have original breeches stockings but any pair of high green socks would work. Also, take the current issue web belt, remove the buckel and find one of the older black buckels off of ebay (they are black metal with the full first class symbol in the face). The breeches do have belt loops. (and they come with very deep pockets both front and rear).

The breeches work out great for movement and comfort. I was very impressed with how comfortable they are. I just wore them this weekend at our July 4th parade in 80 degree weather with the wool shirt campaign hat (40's issue) and a full square neckerchef and was rather comfortable.

I did wear the repro WWI boots and they are painful. I only use them for parades. For actual use, I have a pair of lace up brown leather chukas that look good.

And before the uniform police say anything, I replaced the repro army tin fly buttons with original BSA fly buttons.

You know what cracks me up-here we are killing ourselves to be "offical" yet you are lucky to find a scout or leader with official pants.

What the hay, keep on scouting.

Interesting historical note:

Look at the old pictures of scouts in the pre1960's. Many are also not wearing "offical pants". However, and this is the BIG "HOWEVER", they still looked like scouts because:

1. Campaign hats.(this is a totally different topic-please don't get me started)

2. Neckerchefs

3. Good looking OD green, heavy weight uniform style shirts.

The current tan shirt is not really made for field use. I have several scout shirts in my collection (1950's)that are a cotton flannel material that are very comfortable to wear hiking/camping, look good, and would look OK with dark blue jeans-not that I would do that.

The BSA really needs to just break down and have some cheap button down activity shirts for field use. (while they are at it, the shirts should have yokes in the back and pleats in the pockets-but thats another story)Who cares if they are made in Mexico? I work for a Federal Agency and all our uniforms are now made overseas.

Sorry to get off topic. Take your average scout with a wrinkled, over patched and poorly sewn shirt, unbuttoned, wearing a bolo tie, no hat (or some dorky looking ball cap in sky blue) and some baggy assed pants colored white, cream, tan, or orange, and he looks like, I don't know what, but not a scout.

Tan shirts only look good with the green pants. Thats the end of it.

If your older scouts want to look different, have them form a venture crew and let them wear the kelly green shirts with jeans.

Of course, once you tell them that its ok wear jeans, they will wear something else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...---...

Bully for you. A man after my own heart.

I have a pair of WWI reproduction breeches that I wear with an original wool scout shirt and original WW1 leather leggings and repro WW1 boots. It looks really cool and I always found breeches more practical for the following reasons:

1. More room in the butt when you bend over

2. Stronger material (wool): provides better construction and is fire retardent.

3. Looks really cool.

Let me know how your experiment works.

PS-repros availble at AEF supplies http://www.aefsupply.com/

I have been wearing a campaign hat for over 20 years as a scout and 15 years as a park ranger. Have the boys and adults get the cheaper hats and wear them all the time. I save my official BSA hat for meetings and wear the cheaper 29.00 one on camping trips, in the rain, snow, and was even thrown in a lake with it on. Look at the old picture of scouts and soldiers, the hats were crushed and floppy for a reason, they wore them. Good for you and keep on scouting!!!!!!

BaldingEagle you are so correct.

I too lead by example and wear complete uniform-including knee socks (and garters with tabs if I am in 1970's style). My son is also in complete cub uniform. However, people just don;t like being told what to wear. For example, our pack has pack tee shirts for activity wear. I told parents not to have the kids wear them to the meetings. They do anyway. Then, they don't even wear the darm t shirts camping!!!

I think they do that to drive me crazy.

Just like I tell them, if you are too cheep to buy blue cub pants (mind you money is no problem for our pack), then at least wear dark blue jeans. Every one owns them right!! Well they still wear orange sweat pants with the scout shirt and a belt wrapped around the waist. I wonder whey the kids don;t know any better . Then I look at the parents. You know, the Dads who go to the kids graduation or first communion wearing a t shirt.

Help me--please, help ...---...

The default uniform for adults is the boy scout tan/green uniform. You have an option of 3 hats. Ball cap, "Indiana Jones hat" and campaign. The Indian Jones hat is an approved "activity hat", but since you wear the tan/green on activities, this is approved. I can't nail down either what ball cap you wear but I never seen an adult wearing the same hat as the youth (except for a female den leader and it looked good with the yellow shirt). As a cubmaster, I wear the campaign hat and the kids really dig it. I have 2-one official BSA for meetings and parades and a cheaper army one with BSA leather on it that I wear camping and hiking-even was thrown into a lake with it on and it still held its shape.

In the end, it really doesn't matter, so long as you look good.

Good luck!!!!

OK, I am going to start this again.

I just came back from a district run camping trip for cubs (I am a cubmaster). As usual, I was wearing one of my older OD green uniforms (complete) with my campaign hat. I got lots of complements from fellow scouters and cubs on how "official" I looked and how cool that uniform looked. Isn't it amazing that most people, scouters, scouts, and non scouts liked the OD colored uniform. Now don't get me wrong, I actually like the new style to, and do wear it, but I am partial to the old 1970's style. This leads me to my second point.

Here I was in the fire circle starting our cooking fire with flint and steel. One of the newer district guys comes along and tells me that I better be careful I don' melt my uniform to my skin.

This is my point. Uniforms were traditionally made of wool and cotton so that are fire-retardent (even just to a small degree). There are several scout units out there that are telling scouts to wear nylon pants camping since they dry faster. Well dude, they might be stylish but they won't keep you warm when wet and will melt to your skin.

Anyway, just needed to vent.

FOG you are all right. (I don't know if I should be scared that I agree)

People just don't want to be told what to wear. My cub pack is in a community where money is not a problem (except for me). I run across parents all the time and I tell them that if they don't want to pay for official cub scout pants, just go to any store and buy a pair of blue straight leg trousers. The answer I got back was, "my son is uncomfortable wearing slacks he only wears sweat pants, event to church." I asked what they do when they need to go somewhere formal, they respond, "either we dump him off on the neighbors or he just wears what he wants."

Thats whats wrong with this generation.

Scouting is not a hobby but a life style. Thats all I have to say on that.

Scouters should pay their own way. Once it is no longer fun, its time to move on.

Scouters should be reembursed for certain things which are purchased for the unit, such as gas if transporting scouts in addition to you and your son(s) or program material that benefits the whole group. These guidelines need to be established with the committee-thats what they are there for.

Wow is this a hot topic. However, it is one that I have to chime in on.

First I need to say about uniforms in general. I have been a uniformed civilian employee of the Fed Gov for over 15 years, so wearing a uniform comes second nature. I joined scouts a year before the switch and thus wore both the new and older styles. As an adult, I continue to do the same, just bepends on my mood. However, I donot mix and match old with new. I go through great troubles to make sure that I have complete old style, tops, bottoms, tie and belt (including all matching materials ie wool with wool, cotton with cotton, ect). Its just my style, no more. I do like the new style uniforms, and wear them at council wide events. I think the problem is that I see to many scouters and scouts wearing it incorrectly (ie-not pressed, dirty too many patches or patches sewn on wrong, or may favorite, to small or too big.)

My advise to all scouters, if you wear the older style or the new, wear it proudly and correctly. The scouts will follow our lead.

I like the older styles because as a leader, I like to wear a uniform with a better cut (like officers in the military). The older poly wool green professional uniforms just look sharp, and when worn with a campaign hat and necktie, looks professional without looking like a soldier. Remember image is very important.

So next time you put on your scouter uniform, make sure it looks good.

Yours in Scouting,

BPwannabe

Way to go. I served on BSA camp staff for 4 years and my fellow staffers all say the same thing: it's like military service. You will have fun, get fustrated, hate your job, and have found memories for the rest of your life. Enjoy and bring lots of extra socks.