PA Scoutmaster

I think it all comes down to how you want to spend limited resources. Years ago, BK (before kids) I used to split season tickets for NHL hockey with some guys and went to 10 games a year. My boss told me he couldn't afford hockey tickets. He made 10 times what I made. What he meant was that hockey didn't interest him, and he would never pay the cost of a ticket. Sometimes we truly can't afford things. Other times, we make choices about what is important to us. 

When my son joined a troop, I told him that he would have the opportunity to go to two "big trips" during his scouting career. Those trips were completely up to him. He chose Sea Base and Jamboree. He earned half the money for both trips, and I kicked in the other half. Bad Wolf mentioned $5500 for two to go to Jamboree. Where we live, the cost was only about $1100 for one. My son loved both trips and still talks about both. For his last year as a youth, he decided that he really wanted to go to NOAC, He paid for it (I think our council must have had the lowest cost in the country. Total cost including transportation was $450 for youth) He loved it and would do it again. 

That being said, a lot of people don't have the means to do any "big trips". That's ok. I've had scouts that don't go to jambo, high adventure, or NOAC. I try to steer the PLC from filling the calendar with weekend trips that cost too much. Scouting is about memories. They can come from the big trips or from the weekend at the local state park.

I am usually thrilled to have an Eagle that wants to volunteer in a leadership position. It can be very difficult to find good leaders. That being said, I do recommend that a Dad takes some time off and lets his son acclimate to the troop and become comfortable. Perhaps this is what the leaders here are doing? If so, they need to communicate that better, rather than giving the cold shoulder. The other question I would have is how did the dad approach the Scoutmaster? Sometimes potential leaders can come in and want to take charge. I find that Eagles do this more often than others. "This is how they did it in my troop, this is how it should be done" I don't mean that the original poster did this, I just mean that I have seen that in my experience. That's another reason that taking a year or so while the son gets comfortable in the troop can be a good thing. It also gives the the adult leadership some time to get to know the potential new leader before committing to having him come aboard. 

My council started this last year. YPT can not lapse during the Charter year, so effectively you need to take it every year. Within our troop, we've required any parent that wants to attend an outing to take it as well. 

I'm not familiar with museums in CT, but if you found the coordinator was rude in emails and in person, that was probably a bad sign. In my experience, my first impressions tend to be correct. When somebody from a campground, park, museum or any other venue gets back to the SPL right away, sounds like they want us to there, etc, the experience tends to be good. When the SPL or a PL tells me that he contacted someone about a venue and he didn't have a good feeling, I trust that maybe we should find something else.

In a good boy-led program, the maturity development in the boys can easily be seen in the single year.  By the time the boys are 3-4 years into the program, there's really not much an adult can do except fill in the 2-deep BSA requirement... and learn how to drink coffee from 300' away.

Well, we can experiment with different kinds of coffee. There are lots of options.

New requirements are here:  http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/2016BoyScoutRequirements.pdf

Koolaidman - Thanks for this! I had not seen this document before. As I recall, the last time they made significant changes (2009), most of our scouts bought the new book. They just wrote "See new book" and "See old book" in the sign off section. My son brought both books to his Eagle BOR. I never require anyone to buy a new book though. I would just have them attach a list of requirements to the new book. 

I do have to say that I like the new requirements for the most part. Gone is the 1st class requirement of 10 troop activities with 3 overnight and possibly never being in a tent. Now it is 6 overnight and 5 have to be in a tent, or a shelter that they build. I also like the learning a skill like knots for Scout rank, then having to show that skill in a practical way for Tenderfoot. 

Coming from Cubs to Boy Scouts can be a transition (for adults). The first camping trip I attended, a wise scouter told me that "Dad's not here". Many years later, I sometimes need to remember that before I am too hard on parents. They may just not know how things work, and it is kind of counter-intuitive to not help your son. We know how the program works. We need to train new adult leaders so that it remains boy led.

Wow, great picture! I'm pretty sure yours were in 73rd row, 124th from the left. 

Just curious.... what is it about NYLT that makes it something necessary for the traditional management SPL to have?

 

I have had only one boy take NYLT and he was in the troop when I took over.  He confided in me that my boy-led, patrol-method teaching along with GBB training gave him more usable training than NYLT. 

Honesty, I think it's more the experience of meeting and working with kids from other troops than the course itself. Kids that come back from NYLT are excited by the experience and we have had good results from it. That may not be the case everywhere, but it works for us.

Our boys have decided that nobody can run for SPL or PL unless they have earned the rank of Star.  The SPL selects his ASPL and the ASPL needs to be at least Star.  The PLs select their APLs and the requirement is at least First Class  That pretty much places the age at around 13 for minimum.  However, our elected SPLs have always been patrol leaders before running for SPL.  For the past two years and for next year our SPLs are 10th graders.  I would prefer 11th graders because the SPLs in our troop have their work cut out for them with four patrols of 12 scouts and monthly outings.

I prefer not to have minimum age/rank requirements. In my experience, 11th grade is the worst time to be SPL because of the AP classes that most of our kids take, as well as all of the activities they are involved with. Junior year is crucial for college bound students. If the troop elects and 11th grader and he wants to serve, that's fine with me, but I find the younger ones typically have more time and energy to put into scouting. We do ask SPL's to take NYLT either before the election, or immediately after. Our elections take place just before NYLT. 

We got these a while back. They are weighted just right and easy to fix. Get a few extra handles in case someone (usually large, burly adults who think might is the best way to throw [it's not]) breaks a handle.

 

They used to be ~$22/each. You might be able to get a volume discount like we did. We run 6-7 lanes at a time, so 18-21 'hawks will do fine.

We bought these also. They work nicely, reasonable price and you get some extra handles. Here's a link to a package that is made for scouts: http://www.hatchetsandaxes.com/scout-special-19-hawk-throwing-station-kit-older-scouts

Do you have an Orienteering association in your area? We have a very active one that is always putting on events and is willing to work with Scout troops and provide maps and courses. 

Hedgehog,

You're doing some great things, keep it up! What do I do? I camp a lot, cook a lot, and hopefully, listen a lot. I sometimes get discouraged, but I try to remember that I have the unique experience of helping, in a small way, to shape the future of our youth. I have the honor of being around some truly amazing and thoughtful boys. My son will age out this year, and I was somewhat nostalgic at camp this year, his 7th and final year. Watching him interact with the first year scouts and imparting his wisdom (?) was a wonderful thing. We can all complain about how things used to be, or the difficulties that we face. We have to keep in mind the joy of that first year scout, and know that we play an important role.

The Order of the Arrow requirements are pretty simple: For a youth member, you must be 1st Class or above, you must have camped for 15 nights, with up to 6 of them being consecutive nights at a BSA camp. Once you have met those requirements, your Scoutmaster must approve your name to be placed on a ballot. The OA will come to a Troop meeting and run the election (th boys are elected by a simple majority vote of their peers). The Order is an Honor Society- a place for those who truly live the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives. It is not a checkbox on the list of Boy scout to-dos. I personally think that most troops (and Scoutmasters) do a poor job of policing who they choose to elect to the Order, hence the term "sash and dash" for those who have no plan to ever serve their Troop or Lodge in the spirit of the Order. If your unit is electing boys to the OA that have not met those requirements, you need to inform your Scoutmaster, and probably the local Lodge leadership of this. Of course, those without proper camping experience probably will not complete the Ordeal anyway, so maybe the process is self-policing to some extent...

Torchwood, 

Very well said! I interview any scout that meets the eligibility requirements and discuss what OA is, and whether they want to be on the ballot to be elected. Many times, they choose not to do it, because they do not want to commit to the service.That's ok with me. I would rather they decline the "honor" than do the sash and dash. Our troop always has a very high brotherhood conversion rate because the youth members of the OA encourage those that are elected to become involved in the lodge. The scouts (more likely parents) that see OA as a check box, tend to look at Eagle the same way. I try to focus on the others - the scout that comes out of his ordeal and is pumped about serving others and promoting camping.

@@lepzid is getting good advice.  Remove emotions.  Escalate it to the institutional head and/or the council.  Let them tell you the boundaries you can work within.

 

IMHO, this exposes the built in contradiction.  Parents camp and help and drive scouts to camp.  But "parents" are not reference checked and not trained.  Only leaders.  

In PA, a new law is requiring background checks for all adults with access to youth in any capacity (scouting, church groups, sports, etc). There is still some interpretation going on, but the latest is that if a parent attends an outing, or drives to an outing, we need state police background checks as well as an FBI fingerprint check. The FBI check can be omitted if the person has lived in the state for the last 10 years. On the plus side, they just announced that they won't charge for the checks going forward. 

There is another thread about this topic in the politics section. 

I will be stepping down at the end of the calendar year with my replacement waiting in the wings. I agree with Bad Wolf and blw2 that getting new parents to help is the biggest challenge. We have always had a good group of adult leaders, but we have nobody at all with a boy under 14. Not sure why new parents don't seem to have interest in helping, but it seems universal. I hear the same thing from leaders from other troops in my area. 

On behalf of your boys, thank you for all you've done. I agree it's best to step out of the picture, at least for a while. You can always come back on your own terms and not have to feel the weight of the troop on your shoulders. 

Yes, a scout can drive himself to a meeting. As far as driving other scouts, this is what the GTSS has to say:

1. The drivers must be currently licensed and at least 18 years of age. Youth member exception: when traveling to and from an area, regional, or national Boy Scout activity or any Venturing event under the leadership of an adult (at least 21 years of age) tour leader, a youth member at least 16 years of age may be a driver, subject to the following:
   1. Six months' driving experience as a licensed driver (time on a learner's permit or equivalent is not to be counted)
   2. No record of accidents or moving violations
   3. Parental permission granted to the leader, driver, and riders

In our troop, we typically don't allow under 18 to drive. 

I know of a troop that finished construction on a new $300,000 scout cabin. Lofts, climbing walls, etc. It's become the defacto meeting place for district events and roundtables.

Our unit's QM actively contacts scouts leaving the program to collect unneeded gear. He maintains an inventory and we open it up to any scouts who need gear.

That's a great idea! I'll have to make that suggestion to our QM. We have a very small troop closet, but boys that stay with the program keep their stuff until it is not wearable, or they want to keep as a memento. I never thought of asking the boys who leave the troop. 

3:1 Ratio....Better Hope the Lodge can get a Minimum of 6 To Attend then..Otherwise gonna be hard to have 2 Deep Leadership..

We have the opposite issue. We secured 120 spots and had to issue refunds to another 40 that put down deposits online.

Here we go again. Another opinion from the cubicle farm in Irving. Publish the actual policy and let the units take it from there. If national can't write a lucid policy (and yes, I'm snickering as I write that) then hire someone who can.

 

I was going to make Mozart's point. If I want to clean out the troop's account, a credit card will be the most difficult route for me. A couple years ago we had to have a paper check for something on very short notice. The treasurer was away for a week so, as a signatory on the checking account, I went to the bank and asked for a counter check. I was surprised that instead of having a stack of blank checks on the counter, I had to ask -- and pay! -- for a check to be printed with our name and account number. Actually, I got a sheet of three checks, one of which I used for the approved purpose, the other two floated around on my desk until I finally threw them in the shredder. No one knew of the existence of these checks. I could have written them to "cash" and cleaned out the troop account anytime I saw fit.

 

The way I run my own business is if I can't tell my subcontractors "my house keys and credit cards are under the door mat, put them back when you're finished with them" I don't need to be doing business with that guy. Same with troop leaders. Have I ever been burned? No. Could I be burned? Sure. But while BSA sure likes to teach "Trustworthy" I never cease to be amazed a how little faith they put in it.

Gotta agree with this. We've used a troop card for many years and have never had any issues. State parks, state forests and a lot of privately owned campgrounds are going to want payment with a card up front to secure a reservation. 

That's an issue in our troop as well in that guys serve their PoR for their time and in some cases do nothing.  For instance, our Historian and Quartermaster are older kids who rarely camp anymore.  Maybe the QM can get away with that if they do other things with our shed and trailer, but how is an historian supposed to document campouts with pictures and descriptions if he rarely goes?  One thing that I am going to do after I step back in as SM is help the boys understand what the positions entail and show them specifically what is required for each position.  I am not sure that has been done recently.

Introduction to Leadership Skills should be done every year, preferably before troop elections/appointments. If the scouts don't know what the expectations are, they will never meet them. I agree that if a boy isn't meeting expectations, the conversation needs to take place before he asks to be signed off. 

I was 4' 11", 98# when I started high school.

 

I was 6' 0", 135# when I finished my sophomore year.

 

My mother used to go back to the stores and complain about the poor quality of jeans they were selling because they shrunk so much in just one or two washes.  

Sounds familiar! I never wore 32" inseams; went straight from 30" to 34" in sophomore year. I remember making milkshakes with a bunch of raw eggs in them to try to maximize caloric intake. Didn't work though. Still only weighed about 135lb. Thirty five years later, at least I'm up to 160!

When we invite Webelos to camp with our troop, we will now have to have clearances for every parent. Who is supposed to hold onto these clearances? Nobody knows. Is it the chartering org that owns the troop or pack? Is it the council?

In our area, most cub packs are chartered by the Home and School association at the elementary schools. The H&S members are volunteers that cycle through with their kids. So one group of transient volunteers will have very sensitive information (Social security numbers, minor legal transgressions from 30 years ago, etc) for another transient group of volunteers.

What many people may not know about Pennsylvania, is that there is no such thing as expunging a criminal record. If you stole a pack of gum when you were 18 years old, it will show up on your record when you are 65.

We all want to protect our youth. It is the most important thing we do as scouters. I think this bill came in to the legislature with some name like "The you wouldn't want to harm children, would you?" act. Every rep and senator knows they won't get re-elected if they vote against it. Nobody considers what the bill means.