yellow_hammer

Novice_Cubmaster said,

"I don't think same sex marriage is anywhere nearly as big a threat to the fiber of our society as irresponsible heterosexual mating and breeding."

You'll get no disagreement from me on that. But that's no reason to allow yet another degradation of the institution. Your argument is very close to "all the other kids are doing it" logic. The toothpaste is already out of the tube on heterosexual marriages. We can only fix the problem by raising the general level of morality in society. Allowing gay marriages won't help.

Fuzzy Bear,

Funny. But if it's pointless then why did you join in?

OGE,

I brought up Screamin' Dean because of his recognition that southern voters as a group are more concerned with religion, right to bear arms, and social issues (God, guns, and gays as he put it) than they are with economic issues and it's not too far from the truth. As for Dean himself - even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

As a non-woodbadger, I have never experienced the elitist attitude that you describe from a WBer. On the contrary, they are typically the most active and helpful scouters around.

OGE,

I don't give a rat what Bob and Bob do in privacy but when they start mucking around with the basic unit of society in an effort to force acceptance of their particular perversion then I'm going to react.

Principles mean more to me than funding a ridiculous ponzi scheme and wringing our hands over lack of energy while reindeer romp in one of the largest untapped oilfields known.

I have a few issues that I have long remained focused on nearly to the exclusion of others. Screamin' Dean is on the trail with his simplistic assessment of God, Guns, and Gays.

Temporal economic issues pale in comparison to moral issues when I vote.

Odaham said,

""[Troops] have been diminished by many of my colleagues in the media," North said. "They have been described by some politicians as like Stalin and Pol Pot and those who fought for Adolf Hitler."

Show me. "

Here you go...

Gitmo called death camp

Fuzzy Bear,

I think there is more talk about Reverent than the other points of the Scout Law because it is the only one that some people don't consider to be self-evident as a good thing. It is the only point that is controversial and therefore it generates more discussion.

So, following the logic of free association at the CO level presented here I could start a troop with one or more of the following membership requirements if I chose.

satanists

recovering addicts

gays only

girls only (we're a girls only boy scout troop! hoo hah!)

marilyn manson fans only (with special uniform requirements)

whites only

blacks only

vegetarian only

...

Now if you tell me that I can't do this I'll just say that you are not sufficiently friendly and kind and I'll sue.

Really though - you have to draw a line somewhere. All of you wanting to change things are just drawing the line in a different place.

evmori,

Penn named his daughter Moxie Crimefighter. That tells me all I need to know about his opinions on any subject.

How about a trash can turkey?

Take a look at this site http://www.herculesengines.com/Trash%20Can%20Turkey/Index.htm(This message has been edited by yellow_hammer)

I'm a Southern Baptist. Our troop is sponsored by a Southern Baptist church. I consider myself a fundamentalist.

This was a bad decision by the CO and Scoutmaster. They should go to the family of the boys, apologize profusely, and ask them to please return to the troop.

Crew21_Adv,

I too had one of those moments of introspection after someone said to me, "Think of the three men that you respect the most... do they curse?" For me the answer was no. I rarely let one slip anymore.

My son and I have only been camping twice when it did not rain at all. We've been in everything from a little misting to severe thunderstorms with flash flood warnings. Stinging rain. Drops so big they hurt your head. Downpours. Sideways rain. Freezing rain. Sleet. Hail. Snow. A few times it rained all weekend. We know rain.

When momma complained we both just rolled our eyes at her and reminded her that he's not a little boy any more.

I took a look at tooth of time and Cabela's. Nice looking COTTON shorts and convertibles. A good pair of hiking pants, in my opinion, should be made of something like nylon that will dry quickly.

Take a look at this link if you want an idea of the kind of pants I recommend.

http://www.backcountry.com/store/group/100000062/s41/c11/Mens-Hiking-Pants.html

All,

Thanks for the suggestions. A Scoutmaster minute and effort by the troop leadership to squelch the cursing is the agreed upon approach. I think it will do the trick because they are good boys who are trying out some bad habits.

Oldsm,

I'm with you on the "Oh my..." exclamations. It is talk that is not allowed in the yellowhammer home. But many people around us, some who sit on the pew next to us, don't see it that way. The kids understand that we have different standards and that's just the way it is.

Gern,

Cease thy irreverence lest ye be blown to bits by the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch. ;-)

I'm very concerned that an association of librarians, guardians of our knowledge repositories, have taken this stance. NOT!

Librarians are against a policy and we should quake in fear? Give me a break.

Ghost Chickens in the Sky!

Here is a link: Ghost Chickens in the Sky

(This message has been edited by yellow_hammer)

On pioneering projects where you are doing a lot of rope cutting it can be very tiresome to cut, fold pocketknife properly with both hands, lash, take pocketknife out of pocket and open with both hands, cut...

The process is much easier with a sheath knife that doesn't require both hands to put away.

BSA doesn't forbid sheath knives but they don't encourage them either.

Last Saturday my son went to a merit badge day at our local science museum. He earned the chemistry merit badge. The prerequisite for the session was to read the chemistry merit badge book. For three weeks I've been reminding him and sometimes pushing him to read the book so he would be prepared.

He had a great time on Saturday and guess what I caught him doing on Sunday... reading the book again. Go figure.

My son told my wife and I about boys cursing at other boys (the a word) at a recent scout outing. I was planning to bring it up with the leadership but then heard one of the adult leaders cursing (s word - not at the boys) and held my tongue while I considered how I should bring this up.

Boys do this. I'm not as upset about it as my wife but I expect better behavior from scouts. I'm looking for advice on how best to approach troop leadership about this problem.

Gern,

You said, " Morally wrong to question our foriegn policy? Wow."

I think I've made myself pretty clear but maybe my earlier statements got lost in the furor. Let me say it again succinctly... I disagree with the Bush foreign policy then and now. I did not think that we should have invaded Iraq the first time or the second time. But, once our democratically elected representatives decided that we would go to war and committed troops I think it is time for all of us to shut up and get behind the effort until it is successful. It is morally wrong to increase the danger that our troops are in by giving encouragement to the enemy. Don't twist that to mean anything else.

packsaddle,

Unlike others I don't think that I've resorted to name calling. If anyone has taken my statements to be so I apologize. I've been critical of others (particularly Gern's) statements and possibly their beliefs but I don't think I've called anyone a name.

SR540Beaver,

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Respectfully, of course. For what it's worth I consider myself to be a conservative also. Not one who supports going to war except under dire circumstances but one who believes that once we have it should be done without hesitancy, second guessing, and in the absence of political maneuvering. Let me add that I am certain in my belief that many politicians who are now opposing the war are doing so for political reasons. Such people are beneath contempt.

You said, "Toppling Saddam and "bringing democracy" to Iraq is not defending this nation. It is forcing a foreign policy thru the use of troops." War is part of foreign policy - the part that takes over when diplomacy fails. When have we really gone to war to defend our nation? I don't think that we ever have. An argument can be made for WWII but you have to ignore a lot of facts and include some that were not known at the time to make that argument.

SA,

I'm pretty sure that I never said that Dern doesn't have the right to say what he pleases, I'm saying he is wrong to do it. Morally, not legally.

Having the right to do something does not make it right. People had the right to hurl insults such as "baby killer" at Vietnam vets as they returned home - that did not make it right. People have the right to burn a USA flag - that doesn't make it right. I'm not putting anyone here in that same category, just using examples of rights that are wrong. So, your statement doesn't apply to anything that I've said.

Gern,

I want to believe that your posts are hyperbole but it doesn't appear so.

I'm not sure how to refute your statements. The fact that the morale of troops on both sides of a conflict matters greatly in achieving objectives is a basic tenet of military strategy. If you deny that is true or that dissent encourages the enemy while weakening the resolve of our own troops then I'm at a loss. I see no way to continue the discussion when faced with such ignorance.

You said: "As for our soldiers feelings about it? Well thats part of the job. I expect them to fight just as hard no matter what the public opinion is. That's part of being a soldier." Care packages considered, your cavalier attitude toward our troops and the effect that dissent may have on them borders on disgusting.

GernBlanston,

dictatorship - Absolute or despotic control or power.

Your assertion is not just wrong it is silly. We have a democratic republic, by the rules Bush will be done as President in about three years. If he were a dictator he would stay on and we would not be having this conversation in public.

Did you miss the part where I was not following the Bush (I and II) foreign policy, blindly or otherwise, BEFORE we went to war? Did you miss the part where I pointed out that dissent during the conflict encourages the enemy to kill more Americans in an effort to further weaken our resolve? I invite you to ask some who have served in Iraq whether they appreciate dissent while they are in harms way. When I was in the Army I would not have appreciated it.

Call my support nationalistic if you like, it is still the right thing to do. If we pullled out of conflicts because we found out that we entered them based on faulty or misleading information then we would have pulled out of EVERY conflict that we have ever been involved in. We have never been involved in a completely just war.

packsaddle said:

"Brent, I too supported the vote to authorize. I too supported the decision to invade. I too swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. I plead guilty."

Let me give another perspective. I was against the first Iraq war. There was nothing in Kuwait that was worth risking one American life. We should have let them all settle their business themselves.

I was against the second Iraq war. I did not support the vote to authorize force. I was not satisfied that there was sufficient cause and saw no reason to rush into conflict.

But in both cases once we put soldiers into harms way I resolved to shut my cakehole and support the troops. Anything less gives aid and comfort to the enemy. Anything that motivates the enemy to continue their effort means more Americans dead.

You may not agree with the war or the reasons for it but once our country decided to go to war using the democratic process then the time for debate was finished. Now it is time to win the war THEN get our soldiers home so that we can show them how proud we are of them. Anything less is a disservice to our servicemembers and our nation.

I'm with Beavah on this one - let the PLC and Troop committee decide the issues and let them know that it is perfectly fine to say no.

Personally, I would gently nudge them toward not doing the crossover, not loaning the bus, and say yes to inviting the weebees along on a couple of campouts. The latter may be what convinces them not to go to the other troop.

Good luck!

"Driving is a privilege. Prove to me that you are responsible enough to drive by accomplishing something on your own. Eagle Scout would be good but there are other things you could do that would demonstrate responsibility as well. While we're on the subject, start saving for a car now. I'll double whatever you save to help you buy your first car."

What is wrong with that?