yaworski

No, I don't mean, "Everyone line up and we'll see if your gig line is straight!" I mean inspected like Haynes "Inspected by No. 11"

In my small circle of Scouting associates, I know four people who have bought uniform parts that were seriously defective.

One bought a pair of trousers that have the seams crooked so wearing them is uncomfortable to say the least.

Another bought a shirt on which the buttons and button holes didn't line up.

A third has a shirt that is different colors front and back.

The fouth has an expedition hat that had the crown formed about 15 degress to the left of the centerline of the brim.

Sure, all of these items can be returned for exchange or refund but they shouldn't have to be returned.

Anyone else get any bad uniform items or are we just lucky around here?

"See the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual pages 24 and 33. "

"Bob" must have every manual memorized.

"Please stay within the realm of realism as we discuss these topics"

Wah, wah. Are you now the topic police?

We had a discussion about this last night at a committee meeting. Our old timer (former Rountable Commissioner, former District Commissioner, yada-yada) was commenting that our BORs had become little more than "what do you think about Scouting?" gab fests and that some actual review needs to take place. Our SM recounted that when he had his Eagle BOR they handed him a rope and asked him to tie a bowline. Maybe a bit more review is needed to make sure that these boys have actually learned the skills that have been signed off.

" The Role of the committee is not to decide if they will "let" a troop do something. The role of the committtee is to help the troop do the things that the PLC has decided to do. It's not a "can they go" it's 'how can we help'."

What if the PLC decides to have a stripper at the next campout? She'll leave her g-string and pasties on so she won't be naked in front of the boys. Should the committee help by driving the stripper to the campsite?

An extreme example but all rules are best tested at the extremes.

For example, a boy earns his 2nd class rank at a camp-out.

You have BORs at campouts?

"Question Dan, how does one know if he agrees with the scouting program or understands the scouting program unless he goes to scout leader training? "

Let's see . . . by being involved with a program that is being run well . . . by reading available literature . . . by having been a Scout . . . by . . .

Training is important, if for no other reason, so you can say, "What a load of felgacarb!" and know what you're ignoring.

I found that with my old pack that when I'd mention upcoming training events, many would look at me as if I have antennae sprouting from my head. "I know what I'm doing . . ." "This isn't rocket science . . ." "I can't give up a Saturday . . ." "My work keeps me 12 hours a day. . ."

I officiate baseball for our county rec. dept. and they've done background checks for years. I was surprised when I found out that Scouting doesn't.

A friend of my son quit after summer camp last year. After a year, my son talked him into coming back to Scouting. We just had our fall COH (almost canceled because of sniper action) and much to my surprise, my son's friend's name was called. The Adavancement Chair had hung onto this boys merit badges for a year. The kid was tickled pink to get some awards and went home in a very excited state.

Maybe the thing to do is hang onto them in case they do come back. Or if they call and ask for them, tell them they need to come to the COH.

What am I complaining about now? Those little pins that you get to go on square knots. The pins are too short. After the pin goes through the knot and shirt, there isn't enough sticking out for the clutch back to grab and hold securely.

They've been making these pins for years, why don't they make them longer?

Wow! A 120 boy pack! That's huge. Just awarding rank advancement must take hours.

Our B&G was usually about three hours long. We'd have a gathering activity, some sort of entertainment (magician, juggler, etc), dinner, awards, etc.

"Bob," the ironic thing is that $40 dockers don't look any better than Dickies. Even more ironic is that a year old pair of Dickies still looks better than a brand new pair of Scout pants.

Say what you want, "Bob," I'll match my sartorial splendor with yours any day of the week. We can meet and have it out with gabardine suits at 20 paces.

You see, "Bob," I am what some call a clothes horse, when I was younger some called me a "Beau Brummell." I have ties that cost more than your entire uniform. I know quality clothing. Quality can cost a lot or quality can cost very little. I know that BSA's uniforms are unmitigated crap.

BTW, you really need to develop a better command of the English language. Your homework for today is to two things. First, find out what "bumming around" means. Secondly, go to a decent store and look at $40 or $50 shirt and compare it to a Scout shirt.

Bob,

For bumming around, mowing the lawn and general grunginess I wear Dickies work trousers. I don't wear jeans because I think that jeans on someone of my size is an affront to nature. I pay about $15 a pair for Dickies and they survive about 50 or 60 washings before they become shapeless. They don't wear out, they just cease to look nice. Now, that's quality and value.

For kwc57,

Much of comfort is what you get used to. Remember when we wore skin tight jeans? They were comfortable and we had no trouble moving in them. Scout trousers are cut the way that my tailor would say that trousers are supposed to be cut, not like big sacks of burlap. A Scotsman finds a kilt comfortable, I find them unnerving.

"Even better - looked across the campsite to see an adult lighting a lighter at the junction of the propane tank and the propane tree because he 'smelled propane and wanted to find the leak'"

I just read this one to my 11 year old son and his reaction was, "What? That's totally stupid." And this from a boy who used scissors to cut an electrical cord that was plugged it to "see if it could be done."

"Bob, how does the committee come to a decision when one has to be made?"

Since voting is not permitted all decisions are unilateral and policy is by fiat.

The fundraising "chair" says, "We're going to sell chocolate in July" and that's what will happen.

The advancement "chair" says, "We'll only have on BOR each year" and that's what happens.

How dare you discuss anything or even consider "voting" on any issues like "do we sell chocolate or greens".

"Vote on what?"

As B-P said about something else, "Why, any old thing."

The fact that it is specified that the SM cannot vote means that the others do vote. Why would they vote unless there was a decision to be made? Sorry, "Bob", but the underpinnings have been knocked out of your argument BSA's literature.

That was a link in italian.

Try http://www.pcthiker.com/pages/gear/pepsistove.shtml

I made a Pepsi can stove and it works pretty well. Heats up a canteen cup of water in short order to make instant soup. I haven't tried cooking anything else on it but I'm sure that it would work.

I use Everclear as a fuel because its good for snakebite as well.

Sounds like he made his decision and that Scouts were way down on the list. If he had treated the football team or the drama club in that way, would he have been either the captain of the team or leading man? Maybe when Hell froze over. Why should Scouting roll over for him?

I know why. Because parents think that their son "deserves" to be an Eagle Scout even if other things are more important and every one in Scouting is afraid to take a stance.

You gotta make your choices.

(This message has been edited by yaworski)

"If the Cub Master and the Committee Chair decide to do a Pinewood in February that is their decision to make. The committee chair assigns the event to a committee member and the committee member goes forward to make it happen."

Only to discover that no one will be there except the CM and CC because everyone else is away for spring break. Better yet, no one comes because the boys really wanted to do a raingutter regatta.

Your system is fundamentally flawed in that it allow two people to operate without oversight. I've seen that in other organizations and it is nothing but a receipe for disaster.

In the Bob White system, the committee reallys serves no function since the Committee Chair and the SM seem to make all decisions.

In the Bob White system, the Fundraising Chair makes the decisions about fund raising but what if his pet system is not supported by anyone else in the unit because they tried it before and it didn't work. Now you have some guy operating in a vacuum and creating a disaster.

The Bob White system might work IF the Fundraising Chair ran a committee of fund raisers who discussed and voted on things. The Bob White System might work if the Pinewood Derby is actually run by a committee and not just one guy.

The reality of the system is that these so called "Chairs" are chairs of a committee of one.

"I do hate when troops require a given percentage of participation, it is so unscoutlike"

So to determine "active in the troop" you'd rather use some hand waving that is completely subjective?

"In our troop, any parent or scouter who comes to the meeting can vote."

That can be really dangerous. If you have a hot button issue that the trained Adults are supporting because it is the proper way to do things but it is opposed by a bunch of grumpy parents, you can just get trampled.

We used to have the same policy as you do but changed it when the potential problems were seen. We also had a bunch of parents who wanted to have a say, put up their hand, volunteer, and register.

"There is realy nothing to vote on. "

Sure there is.

Do we want cookies or cake at next month's meeting?

Popcorn or wreathes?

Pinewood derby, here or there?

Capital expenditure, yea or nay?

Use local talent or bring in a hitter to get rid of the SM?

" I agree that many intermix the field and the dress uniform in conversation and I see no real harm in that as the actual dress uniform is worn so seldom."

Just like there is no "Class A" or "Class B", the field uniform and dress uniforms are well defined. I always tell my kids, "there is a right word, use it."