yaworski

In days gone by, one adult was all that was required. A long time Scouter told me that when he had a troop in Sicily, he took 24 scouts on a train trip to Northern Italy by himself.

When I was in Junior High, my church group would go on outings with maybe 40 kids, boys and girls with one or two adults. Lest you get the idea that we spent our time reading the bible, most of the time on the bus was spent playing poker, singing lewd songs or trying to get into the pants of one of the girls.

The only problem with a large number of adults getting involved is that too many agendas wind up being revealed with many of the parents being there to ensure that their child gets special treatment.

"yaworski - wool is a natural fiber, unlike synthetics. "

I know that. What's your point? The company claimed that theirs was the only "multi-seasonal" underwear.

"while y'all are at it, could someone let me know if the neckerchief officially goes over or under the collar?"

Both. :-) It depends on the unit. Each unit has the option of deciding whether the neckerchief goes over or under the collar.

Back in olden days, the neckerchief always went over the collar. In not quite as olden days, the collar was turned inside the shirt when the neckerchief was worn.

When Oscar de la Renta designed the new uniform, it went under the collar which is where someone pointed out that the Hitler Youth wore theirs.

I prefer the look of the neckerchief over the collar and with the new shirts, it actually looks better if you don't turn the collar under.

Also, if the neckerchief is on the outside, it serves one of its intended purposes which is to absorb sweat.

"This way, we are sure that no one is excluded from a meeting. We actually had an assistant district commissioner come to a troop committee meeting unannounced. he then informed me (as SM) and all registered asst sm's to leave the room. he and the disgruntled few held a meeting in which only one other person attended who was registered as a committee member."

That doesn't sound Kosher. For one thing, the CC is in charge of the meeting, the DC is only there by invite. Secondly, unless a person involved with the troop is being disruptive, he has a right to be at the meeting, even if he cannot vote.

We've gone through the "who can vote question." If you stick to the rules, there might only be one person who can vote on anything at a given meeting. Our Troop decided that all adults registered at leaders or committee members get one vote. So far it has worked.

"I also wanted to comment on the one submission that said that summercamp food was inadequate. I

guess that's possible, but I'll bet it was picky eater syndrom."

I went to Goshen for Webelos Camp last summer and I was often quite hungry. The only meal that consistently had enough calories for me was breakfast.

I'm a large fellow (6'2", 240 lbs) and I need a bunch of food when I'm active. Four slice of lunch meat and a roll just don't cut it when I've been hoofing it all over creation. Fresh fruit was available but that has it's own problems since I'm diabetic. Eat a couple apples and then I have to start fiddling with my insulin dosages.

Heritage was great this summer, I was never hungry. My only complaint about Heritage was a lack of greens. Goshen had a salad bar available for the leaders.

"One of the problems with footwear appropriate for class A uniforms is that there are very few

manufacturers of leather footwear left in the US. Those that remain are all high end and very

expensive. As I recall the Buster Browns they were very economical and we wore them everywhere."

How true. Back then, nearly everyone had "dress shoes" and "sneakers". We wore hard soled leather shoes to school everyday and changed into sneakers when we came home.

I'm a bit young to remember them but I have a couple old handbooks that have ads for "official" boy scout shoes.

Perhaps that wouldn't be a bad thing even today. Perhaps BSA should either approve specific shoes and have the maker put an FDL on the box or they should publish a list of good shoes.

We have some really stupid parent/kid combinations out there. Parents that think that basketball shoes are hiking shoes. Kids that believe that snow boots or steel toes work boots are good for a hike.

"Last year (sept 2001) the PLC said they thought every scout going to summer camp in 2002 should

have a complete Class A uniform."

This year our SPL passed the word that all Scouts needed to bring their entire uniform including neckerchief. Who showed up without a neckerchief? The SPL's brother.

As someone who has organized and run numerous events that involved hundreds of people, I've been on both sides of the issue.

One problem can be information overload. I was given a 40 page handout about summer camp this year. Was anyone going to read the entire thing, from cover to cover? Not likely.

Reportedly, the high points were covered at a meeting that I attended but I don't recall it and consequently, I missed a bunch of important stuff.

There is also a tendency in organizations for the people in charge to assume that everyone knows what's going on. Unfortunately, this leaves the new folks in the dark, especially if they haven't wormed their way into the right clique.

Important points need to be bullet items on a single sheet of paper. Also, important items need to be brought up frequently. For example, the troop newsletter could have a section that says, "Do you have your medical form on file? Did you take your swim test yet?"

Most of us are incredibly busy folks today. When you leave for work at 6 AM and get home at 8 PM, it is very easy for things to slip through the cracks. Unfortunately, most 11 year olds don't have the ability to pick up the slack for their parents.

"1. If he was elected or appointed to a leadership position and held it for 6 months it counts whether he did anything or not"

Now that just makes no sense at all. Johnny the Slug takes a job, doesn't do squat and then get rewarded for his lack of performance. Sorry but that dog don't hunt.

What is it with latrines? It seems that virtually no one can get them to work.

Last year I went to Goshen in Virginia and the latrines had barely any odor and a staffer told me that the only time that they needed to be pumped out was if someone killed the bacteria in them by dumping cleaning solution into it.

This year I went to Heritage in Pa. and the latrines stunk to high heaven.

Surely if they can do it in Virginia, they can do it anywhere.

"I was told the reason for Family night is so the parents see the camp and to make them feel

they want to send their son there next year."

That never occurred to me because I just assumed that the camp must be pretty decent if the troop goes there every year and 90% of the boys claim that it was a blast.

"Remember the days when it was considered proper to COVER your head while in church, especially for

women?"

I wouldn't say "especially for women." With the possible exception of a couple of denominations, it wasn't acceptable for men to wear a cap in church just as it was unacceptable for women to go into a church with their head uncovered.

I would guess that removing your hat in church is a sign of obeisance, much like a serf would remove his hat when talking to a lord.

I don't understand why camps even have a family night. The camp that we went too is three hours away and I was surprised at the number of parents that drove up for a visit. They couldn't eat in the chow hall and we were going to watch an OA ceremony after dinner so they only got to visit with their kids for about a half an hour. A six hour drive for a half an hour visit.

Just let the kids go. Cut the apron strings. It is part of life.

"A well-designed pair of convertible trousers will not chafe when zipped off, because the zippers will not touch the skin. "

It isn't the zipper rubbing on the skin that's the problem. The problem is that the zipper is stiff compared the cloth and that's what rubs.

I've tried them all, expensive and cheap and none have been satisfactory for me.

"some in technical clothing"

As opposed to that Liberal Arts clothing?

I kinda like those spiffy unit number patches. There's a little too much information there for me but that's just me. I like the idea of the town name on the unit patch. Although I think that I'd be happier if they simply went back to the community strips.

One thing about these CSPs is that they change constantly. Remember the days when a state had only one style of license plate and you could tell a car's state of origin from 100 yards away. Now every state has dozens of plates and it is a big mess. The same is true about CSPs. My council has issued dozens of special patches. Now, you have to get close enough to read to make sure the guy's from your council.

This is a problem that occurs all too often. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you press the issue, you are perceived as a hard case. If you don't press the issue, bad conduct is rewarded. Many will say, don't press the issue because the involved parties will drop out of scouting. So what?

For my part, I don't like those zip-off leg trousers. I find that in shorts mode, the stiff zipper around the bottom of the leg tends to rub on my leg, chaffing me.

"Akwatek is indeed what the Army uses for it's latest PT uniform shirts. I did check out the

wickers.com site, and the prices knocked me over! I can buy the Army Akwatek shirts for $6.90 short sleeve and $8.95 long sleeve -- a far cry from the 20-25 dollar range at the wickers site"

I took a look at that site. Wowzers! $15 for a pair of skivvies. Those had better be great skivvies for that money.

Personally, I don't know why you'd want your activity clothes to be loose. Over the years I've found that the shirts with the shoulders drooping down onto the arms hinder arm movement. I referee basketball and in rec leagues where the uniform is a t-shirt, girls will tie the sleeves up for more freedom and guys just rip the sleeves off.

Also the wikers site says, "Akwatek keeps the wearer cool in warm temperatures, and warm in

cold temperatures, making it the only multi-seasonal performance underwear." Which isn't exactly true. Ask any Civil War re-enactor about his multi-seasonal wool underwear.

Make mine a natural fiber :-)

I see this problem in our troop as well. One problem with correcting the situation is that too many adults worry about "losing" the troublemakers if you try to fix the problem. I say, "So what?"

We shouldn't degrade the program to make it more comfortable for boys who don't want to be scouts. If they want to leave, that is fine. It will make the program better for all.

One of the best tools to use for correcting behaviour is advancement. If kid isn't acting like a Scout, don't promote him. This may be unpopular but it is effective. Parents will scream but what they want is that badge for their kid's college application.

One of our old times has been a Scouter for 39 years and before that he was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout, so he's been in the program for more than a few years. He told me that when he first moved to the area and before he was involved with our troop, he was asked to sit on a Board of Review. One kid came in with a wrinkled shirt, no neckerchief, wrong rank patch, and was basically a mess. When the discussion started, my chum said that he couldn't recommend the boy for advancement since he couldn't even show up for his BOR in proper uniform. The rest of the board reluctantly agreeed but my friend was never asked to sit on a Board of Review again.

Just like the schools, we promote boys because they are expected to be promoted. Parents want their boys in Scouts because an Eagle looks great on college applications. If these boys aren't promoted because of their behaviour, the parents will scream but one of two things will happen, either the boys will be yanked out of your troop or their behaviour will improve. Both are good things.

Laura,

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but there is a precept of the law that says you are required to use ordinary care when you borrow or rent something. This means that you aren't responsibe for reqular wear and tear but you still have to safeguard it and take care of the item.

When you borrow my hammer to install cabinets in your kitchen, I should not be surprise when the hammer face has marks on it or the label on the handle is rubbed off. However, if the handle is broken because you decided to use it as a lever to move the refrigerator, that's another story.

It's great that you don't mind if people trash your stuff when they borrow it but I do mind. If you let the boys off scott free and tell the owners of the wagon to "lump it", you are sending a message to the boys that they don't need to care for anything that they borrow and you are telling the adults in the troop that they shouldn't loan anything to the troop.

I too am a big fan of the community strips and I think that we lost much when they went away.

One of the most common questions that you hear at a gathering of Scouts or Scouters is, "Troop 999? Where you located?" Life was much simpler with the community strips, you could start the conversation with, "Hey, you're from East Awfulgosh. Do you know Bill Smith?"

If they brought back the community strips, the big danger is that they'd make the geographic area too big. We have roughly 300 units in my county so I'm sure that BSA would want to sell just one, "Montgomery County, MD" strip instead of strips for 30 or 40 different towns.

However, with the modern embroidery machinery that is in use today, each unit could order their strips to say exactly what they wanted.

Scottsmom,

The youth sized uniforms are only available in a poly/cotton blend. Comfort would be greatly enhanced if the boys wore a snug (gasp! Something that fits) cotton undershirt.

As for the shirts coming out, that happens with the boys who are wearing shirts big enough for their dads so length really isn't the issue.

There was a time when people wore clothes that fit and shirts stayed tucked in. Why? The trousers and shirts work as a system with properly fitted trousers keeping the shirts in. The currently popular baggy trousers hang too low and are too loose to keep anything tucked in.

I do wish that the uniform shirts had proper tails instead of the square cut bottom.

It all has to start at a young age as well and things aren't helped by today's style of ultra-sloppy.

Our troop is fed by two packs. One pack is an "anything goes" pack and the other is pretty much a "by the numbers pack." When I tell the new scouts to tuck in their shirts, etc. the boys from the first pack whine and the boys from the second pack just do it.

I haven't crunched any numbers but I believe that the boys from the "anything goes pack" drop out of Boy Scout much more quickly than the boys from the other pack.

"If I were to change the uniform, it would be to make it something that the boys (over 10) would actually like to wear."

I don't think that the style of the shirt matters. I don't know many Girl Scouts who will actually wear their uniform for a second longer than they need to.

What is needed is a cultural change and it needs to start at the top. Too many of the leaders shed their uniforms 15 seconds after the meeting is over. To many leaders give the impression that "uniforms are lame."

What needs to happen is that we need to educate the scouts that their uniforms represent something that is more important than their Chicago Bulls jacket. Also, they need to understand that the kids at school who mock them for wearing a uniform aren't their friends.

Simple enough. Right? Give me a decade or two. :-)