VinceC

Can youth members wear the "TRAINED" patch? And if so, what courses would make them eligible? I have yet to see a scout in our district, let alone council, wear one. However, I recently heard that this is permited. I have one scout recently take NYLT and two others TLT. I certainly would like to present these TRAINED patches if they can wear them.

Thanks.

Just an update. This is an email that was sent out by the Cradle of Liberty Council to it's members this week. Should also be on their web site. Vince.

PHILADELPHIA SCOUT OFFICE

I am pleased to let you know that we won a major victory yesterday in federal court. Shortly after Cradle of Liberty filed its lawsuit, the City filed a separate lawsuit in state court seeking an eviction. Although we attempted to work with the City in a manner that would permit Cradle of Liberty to remain in the building while the parties litigate their dispute in a single forum, the City insisted on moving forward in state court in order to obtain immediate possession of the building. Today, however, the judge presiding over the federal action ordered the City to cease and desist in its eviction efforts and to immediately dismiss the state court action.

While this does not end the litigation, we are pleased because the federal court concluded that Cradle of Liberty's constitutional claims are strong. Among other things, the court stated that the "evidence presented to date would support a finding that [the City] intentionally treated [Cradle of Liberty] differently from other similarly situated lessees by solely subjecting it to scrutiny." The court also stated that the City "has yet to present evidence to support" a "legitimate justification" for its actions.

While the legal process will continue to play out, we wanted all of you to know that this means for now that we can remain in our home, and more importantly focus on our core mission of serving over 50,000 children in Philadelphia who benefit from the programming and mentorship provided by Scouting everyday.

Thank you for your support, words of encouragement and helping hands over this long haul. We are grateful. We will continue to keep you posted on any new developments. Good Luck with Scouting for Food, have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

While the site may have a few flaws, it does work. It has lead several boys to our Troop and Pack. Yard signs are distributed to units and posted throughout town. When you visit BeAScout.org you key in your zip code, and it will direct you to local units and their contact info, meeting place, etc. Registration is available online too. All in all, it's been a wonderful program which has increased the visibility of the scouts in the community.

I like it, and it has helped our units grow.

Hello To All,

I recently recieved an invitation to attend this event, that is being held in my area. I can't seem to find any information about this event. Does anyone out there have knowledge of this? Is it worth attending?

Thanks

I'm looking through the new handbook. I see on page 58 a badge for "Webmaster." Is this something I missed from previous years, or something new? I can't seem to find anything anywhere regarding it's description.

Hello,

I'm scheduled to attend the National Camp School next weekend. I am going to run the Cub Day Camp for my district this year. I have been trying to find an agenda for the three day course, but no matter how much searching I do, I have no luck, and no one has been able to provide one. Has anyone here attended this course, and if so, what can I expect? Thanks.

VinceC.

Unfortunately, this may happen very soon in a unit that I am now a part of. Has anyone had to do such a thing? I'm speaking of 2 sons and their father, who is on the troop committee. The mother, while not registered, fuels the fires.

I prefer not to go into the details here, but it is definitely warranted. I have seen and experienced things firsthand. This should come as no surprise to the family. All concerned have been spoken to regarding their actions numerous times. No one really knows how to go about doing this. Is there a formal way this is to be done?

Everyone on the committee would like them gone, but are afraid to send them packing fearing repercussions later coming back to haunt them if not done properly.

Commissioner and DE agree with us, but say that this is a unit issue.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

I am aware this is done many places, but what guidelines and rules are in place for such an activity?

Our troop has been asked about the possibility of setting up an ax throwing event/yard and an upcoming district event. Right now the committee seems split on the idea. Personally, I feel the idea of boys trowing axes goes against everything we try to teach them about safety. Does anyone know where I can find BSA policies, rules, etc regarding this type of situation? I know I will have to show something specific to those on both sides of the issue.

This troop is one that I have just crossed over into (actually my old troop) with my son. I am going to serve as one of the ASM's having been a Cubmaster for several years. Training and safety for the adults was something our pack was very big on, and I'm trying to bring some of that into the troop. I just like to back myself up with facts before I present them or offer my opinion.

Thanks.

Vince C

I wonder if this is playing into the city's decision: Governor Ed Rendel of Pennsylvania announced plans today for making the Ben Frankiln Parkway more friendly to tourists and pedestrians, and making major changes to the area. It seems the first target on the list is a Best Western hotel to be torn down, just a couple of blocks away from the council headquarters. Still waiting for the news station to post the story online so I can add the link.

Our federal government regularly practices age discrimination when applying for a job. The law clearly states that one must be 25 years old to be a congressman, 30 for a senator, and 35 to be president. The same law also says you must not only be a U.S. citizen to be president of the United States, but must have been born in the United States. So our government seems to discriminte based on nationality as well. I haven't seen many posts or heard complaints about these forms of lawful discrimination in Philadelphia, or elsewhere. Perhaps the City of Philadelphia should ban federal elections in any of their buildings until the government permits all adults to apply for these jobs.

Regarding the lease agreement. Many have commented on what the original lease states, and what changes could be made, if this or that is permitted, etc. Has anyone on this board seen an actual copy of the lease agreement of which we discuss? Or is it all spectulation and second hand information from their own "reliable" sources. I am a member of this council and don't know of anyone that claims to have seen the lease. Cradle of Liberty has been fairly quiet on the issue the past week. Maybe the time is up for the council, or maybe they know something in the lease the rest of us don't.

The building itself is located in a very desirable area. It is just off the Benjamin Franklin Parkway, and is near the Philadelphia Musuem of Art, The Acadamy of Natural Sciences, the main branch of The Free Library, The Franklin Institute, The Rodin Museum, and many more like this. Even though I have no proof, and given the state of the City of Philadelphia government, I can't help but think that the city already has something in mind for that piece of property. Just a gut feeling.

Here in the Philadelphia area it's cheese steaks, hoagies, and that Pennsylvania Dutch special, scrapple! Ah scrapple, everything but the oink!

This is something I went through just last year. We changed due to a lack of interest and involvement from our CO. We really wanted to try and make things work, but constantly hit a wall with the old CO. We decided to look for a new CO, explained our situation and expectations of each other. Be sure you have a new home before you leave the old one. All I needed, as per my DE was a letter to release our pack from the charter. I drafted the letter myself and let the old CO head sign it. Keep it simple. The letter was only two sentences long. While not much, we took all our assets with us. No questions asked by the old CO at all. Probably due to their lack of interest, they didn't even inquire about assets. And be sure to talk to your DE BEFORE doing anything.

Hello,

About 3 years ago our local school district stopped our pack and one other from recruiting in the schools. They use the arguement that if we can come in, they have to let everyone. We had been permitted to send flyers to the school that were sent home with the boys until this year. This year we took the schools our flyers for our round-up. When they didn't arrive at the homes as scheduled, we called and were told by the school secretary they forgot. This was repeated for two more days until our round up date had passed. I wrote to the principal to ask what happened, or if there was a change in policy on handing out our flyers that perhaps we didn't follow. I do expect her to answer as I believe she is pro-scouting. Our problem lies with one person, the district superintendent. What I find frustrating in this situation is that flyers for all sorts of non-school related activites have found their way to my home via my son's backpack. I have seen flyers for soccer, fall baseball, Spanish lessons, science camp, and numerous P.T.O./PTA letters. Maybe I just needed to rank a bit, but I thought the scouts had to be given the same treatment as the other groups, maybe I'm wrong.

Vince.

Merlyn, I read the article you refer to. And the comments that followed it, regarding the accurracy. Since when can't a woman be a Scoutmaster or leader? According to your article, women are not permitted to hold leadership roles. I wonder what else is not correct in it. I worked with Mark a number of years ago, and I'm familiar with the work he's done in scouting. I would thinks his is more accurate.

The best idea I've seen by a local troop was using the cub pack. I'm the CM of a pack that is not affiliated with any one troop. We feed 3 troops. For many years most of the webelo 2 boys went to troop "1". Not for any particular reason, just that's where others in the pack had gone in the past and they just followed. However the troop didn't do a very good job of retaining all these boys, and unfortunately they left scouting. Two years ago troop "2" started having a Webelos Night. It was held on the first troop meeting night of the month, every month, and the troop used the Cub Scout Program Helps as a guide for the evening's activites to help with the Webelos advancement. Many of our Webelo 1 and 2 boys attended these meetings every month with their parents, as well as a few other activities sponsored by the troop. For the past two years troop "2" has had every member of my pack cross over to their troop, and kept them. By the time the crossing over takes place, these boys already feel as though they belong to the troop, and there is a comfort level already established with the parents.

I also find this program to be a bonus to my pack. As the boys get older, it can be harder to retain them in the pack with so many outside activites. Sometimes the Webelos feel they are too young for some of the cub scout activites. By being permitted to go to a boy scout meeting every month gives them a chance to take part in some "real" scout stuff. And it keeps them in the pack.

So I guess what I'm saying is don't just rule out the cubs for reruitment. There needs to be work done at that level as well. Not all the boys always want to cross over, but this troop found a way to make it happen.

I have a father in my pack that pushed his two sons for advancement to the point where I don't know how the boys beared it. One is a Webelos one, the other is in his second year of boy scouts. He said to the older scout in front of me, "You want to be an eagle scout like Mr. C. right? You have to work harder and faster if you want to get there." When we were alone I explained to the father that I didn't earn my eagle until I was nearly 18. He nearly fell over when I told him that. I did explain to him that my dad kept on top of my time frame so that I wouldn't miss out on my eagle, and that I feel I appreciated the rank even more earning it a bit older than some others, as I had a better understanding of what it meant. I then told him of about a boy that was in my troop when I was an ASM. He had parents that pushed him right to the edge, and he "got even". This scout made it to the rank of Life Scout, laid out his service project, was one merit badge away from Eagle, then quit. He had enough. We couldn't get him to pursue it any more. He was a great scout, and the others in the troop really liked him. He was a good leader to the younger boys. We were sure he did it to spite his parents. Not very scout like, but one had to see how the parents took the fun out of their son's scouting experience.

Since telling the dad in my pack this story, and explaining to him in a very nice way to ease up a little, he has let the boys go at more of their own pace. He has gone from pushing to motivating, and that is a big difference.

Vince.

Thanks Kurt,

Seems like a good starting point. I agree with the safety key as well. Wouldn't build one with out it.

Vince.

Scoutnut and John,

I fully agree, but these are the things that I'm hitting a wall with. The secretary is not the most pleasant, and we are trying. We have asked to do service projects, spring cleanups, raking leaves, planting flowers, helping out with church functions. We're told no. I'm trying to find names of who I can speak to, I can't even get that from the CO. This is exactly why I'm thinking of a new CO.

I have taken up the suggestion of trying to locate some members of the pack that belong to the CO. So far no luck on that front. We have 64 boys, from 60 families, of which 43 belong to the "other" church we would like to consider as a CO, 12 to other organizations, and still waiting to hear from the 5 others. I just checked the CO's website and all their other youth groups, activities, and links are listed but ours, and yes they have been provided with the information.

Vince.

Thanks Lisa. I agree, that as long as the CO isn't opposing what you do, and has a hands off approach, while isn't the best, it can work. Some of what frustrates me is the lack of cooperation. It took me nearly a month to get the head of the CO to sign my charter papers, and I made myself available 24/7 to do so. Over two weeks to get applications signed by the COR. It's seems that they don't want to be accessible to us. The church secretary won't even let me know the names of who I can speak to about things. When I asked if I could have the name of someone to speak to about the form I requested, I was told no, and that it was in the hands of the CO's legal council.

I am currently trying to locate a family in the pack that is a member of the of the CO. We have one of the largest packs in the area with 68 boys. So far 40 have responded that they are members of another church in town. 10 others are with other groups. Still checking on the rest. With so many members with the other church, it made me think about the possiblity of transfering the charter. Myself and the CC are both members of this other church. At one time they did have a boy scout troop, but it folded due to lack of membership. There were just to many troops in to small an area at the time. They may be receptive to us since all these boys also attend school at the church.

Perhaps what really got to me, not just the lack of involvement, was the denial of being able to speak with someone in authority that makes these decisions. I was not even given a name, just the person's title. I was told the average tenure of the CM in the pack was 1 1/2 years. I can see why now. I have no intention of stepping down of my own choosing at any time soon. I really do enjoy it all. Am I expecting too much to have the CO be more active with the pack? How much interaction do other units have with their CO? How involved are they?

It is a good point that the chuch members are getting older. I believe this may be the case with the CO. None are on the committee, and the COR has never attended anything in the last 5 years at least.

Thanks again for everyones input.

Vince.

I have spoken to the DE on this and he is willing to speak with the churh. I am in the process of trying to find out who in our pack is a member of the CO church. Even if the CO provides us with the information we are looking for, I don't think they will act on the packs best interest in the future. I think they just like the "idea" of having an association with the BSA in some form, but are not willing to fulfill their part of the agreement. When I meet with the pastor, the head of the CO when we re-chatered to have the papers signed, I asked about more involvement from the CO and it's members, and how we wanted to share want we were doing. His response to me was "we just let the cub scouts do want they need to do. There're just kinda there." The pack also seems to get the blame for any mess that is left in the meeting room, restrooms,or kitchen at the church. At the beginnig of the year(sept) I was told of how we "left things" a mess after meetings. I promised the church I would take care of this and keep things in order. So before every meeting, I would arrive extra early and patrol the building, checking on its condition. It was ususally a mess before we started. I reported this, but some how we still took the blame. We always clean up after meetings, even if we didn't create the mess in the first place. Right now, it's only myself and the CC that have mentioned to each other only about a new CO. We definitely do not want rumors flying around.

I took over as cubmaster of my son's pack this year. We've made some great progress in turning our pack around; more parental involvement, increased membership, more activities. One area where I feel I've hit a wall is with our CO. They really seem to have no interest in us at all, and not from a lack of our pack trying. We've offered service projects, asked to have Scout Sunday, invited church membership to our meetings and activites, (asked to have them posted in church calendar but they didn't). What we receive from the chuch is a place to hold most, but not all of our pack meetings. Our COR is merely a name on paper.

What really got under my skin this week and prompts me to write this post is this. A local business have been VERY supportive of our pack the last few years. They have recently begun a program for community grants, and are offering us $1,000.00. What pack couldn't need that assistance? All our our papers are in order but one. A 501©(3) that states the church in charitable and nonprofit. The church refuses to provide it, and I recently found out that they have refusewd to in the past from an old pack member. They state we should have our own. Local BSA council says we should be using that of the church, as per the charter agreement. When I asked for the church presidents name so that I might speak with him directly(he made this decision), I was not given it and was told that the matter had been turned over to their legal council for review, and would not discuss it any further until they located their orginal charter papers they signed years back.

I'm very frustrated with the situation. Is it time for a new CO? There is another local church that may be interested. Over half our boys belong to this other church that is a possiblity.