TwoXForr

Our Council puts on the Valley Forge encampement every Feb here in PA.

Every January the have training for three to four Scouts for a day and those boys go back and train others. Have you checked out your local council and seen if they have any training.

I was wondering when someone would get tired of his bluster.

Bravo SMT244.

The only problem with the Greenbelt Park is you hear traffic noise all night long.

Good place to stay, very close to the Metro line, which is the best way to get around DC.

Bravo, well said Narraticong.

Light a candle, stop cursing the dark Lem.

What President's Day Weekend,

I thought everyone either came to the Cradle of Liberty, Valley Forge Encampment and Prilgrame

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Forge_Pilgrimage

or sat at home wishing they were there.

(Just kidding, but I bet it would be warmer in PA than in Boston that weekend.)

Joined a troop that had a boy with Tourettes, he was a teenager at the time.

No major problems, it just took him a little longer to get a point across sometimes.

He made Eagle, and is now in college, doing quite well from what I hear.

Well then Lem you would like my troop, no first name for adult leaders. Mr. or Mrs.

But it just goes to show you different troops, different ways.

And before anyone assumes we are a troop of marching, drill and cermony, my kids hate that stuff, as do I.

Well we did have a Precision Lawn Chair Platoon, but that is another story.

Lem, I think you are seeing the negative just from hanging out on this board. I dont believe I have posted a single problem about my troop here. Yes we have problems. But it would have to be a very serious problem for me to search for an ansewer here. And it would have to be a problem me and my fellow ASMs and our Scout Master would not have a clear cut answer to.

But my troops problems are pretty common, how to get a specific boy involved, how to get one to clean troop gear after taking it home from a trip. Common problems.

My boys are mostly polite, I dont see any bullying, harrasing or out and out nasty behavior.

I know you are saying I probably am are missing something, but I have a unique position in the troop I dont have a boy in the troop. Never had, dont even have a son, just a daughter.

Oh and as far as watering down scouts. I have a saying and all my boys know it. "You are not special."

They all know this means the rules apply to them equally. No one in the world really cares for them except thier family and friends. The rest of the world could care less about them. They are not special. They may be individuals but they are not special.

That is one of the problems I see with the world today. Too many people think they are "special".

And you know something, I have not had a single parent ever complain about me telling little Timmy, that he is not special.

The numbers in my troop, it keeps growing, lots of backpacking, canoeing, white water rafting, cold weather camping.

Yes, Lem why are you here?

Lem I keep hearing these grand statements about how Scouts are broken.

But I have not heard how. Are we not teaching the Oath and Law. Are we not creating individuals who are self reliant and can stand on thier own. What exactly in your opinion are we doing wrong.

And if you answer is antedotal evidence about a few poor scouts in your area, I will give you that not all Scouts live they way they should, heck not all Scouters either. But I could give you just as many stories about Scouts who are doing the right thing, standing firm in thier convictions, helping others who need help.

I am sorry Lem that some come down on you for being outside pointing your finger about what is wrong but I go back to this famous quote when it comes right down to it.

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

By Theodore Roosevelt.

No to any bailout. The big three will not go away. Reorganize under bankrupcty, maybe even be bought out by another car company, but there is still some profit in those companies (R and D patents, models that continually make money). Just need to trim a heck of a lot of fat, and get them to be lean and mean once again.

And would someone turn off the funds to the banks as well. I dont think it is helping.

Wow, what an accomplishment to make 1st Class.

I particulary liked the

"2. Earn and deposit at least two dollars in a public bank."

Just wanted to know Oz it is a "baseball player" not a "baseballer".

In your defense it is probably one of the most confusing games in the world. I dont know of any other sport in the world that at the begining of the round of play the defense controls the ball. (The Pitcher)

Personally I dont trust the goverment to make personal choices for me.

One thing that would lower Health care costs. Tort reform. If you sue and it is deemed to be frivioulous and without merit you have to reimburse the person you sue for thier costs. This would cut down a lot on malpractice insurance which is a huge driver of health care costs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort_reform)

And again if you want health care get your state to run it, not the federal goverment. Get someone who is more responsive to your needs, not one plan fits all.

An example of this is the federal minimum wage. The goverment decides what the minimum wage is for every state. But no one can tell me that the cost of living in NYC is the same as living in a small town Nebraska. If the states want a minimum wage then let them do it, not the feds.

Personally I dont trust the goverment to make personal choices for me.

One thing that would lower Health care costs. Tort reform. If you sue and it is deemed to be frivioulous and without merit you have to reimburse the person you sue for thier costs. This would cut down a lot on malpractice insurance which is a huge driver of health care costs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort_reform)

And again if you want health care get your state to run it, not the federal goverment. Get someone who is more responsive to your needs, not one plan fits all.

An example of this is the federal minimum wage. The goverment decides what the minimum wage is for every state. But no one can tell me that the cost of living in NYC is the same as living in a small town Nebraska. If the states want a minimum wage then let them do it, not the feds.

Personally I dont trust the goverment to make personal choices for me.

One thing that would lower Health care costs. Tort reform. If you sue and it is deemed to be frivioulous and without merit you have to reimburse the person you sue for thier costs. This would cut down a lot on malpractice insurance which is a huge driver of health care costs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort_reform)

And again if you want health care get your state to run it, not the federal goverment. Get someone who is more responsive to your needs, not one plan fits all.

An example of this is the federal minimum wage. The goverment decides what the minimum wage is for every state. But no one can tell me that the cost of living in NYC is the same as living in a small town Nebraska. If the states want a minimum wage then let them do it, not the feds.

Took the troop out backpacking this weekend on the AT in PA. Seperated it into two groups. Older and Experienced did a tough ten miles, while younger, newer boys did an easy 4 miles and met at the same campsite on Saturday night.

At one point with the new boys we explained why when taking a leak you do not relieve yourself on a tree. (Animals like the salt, so they will lick on the tree, and chew on it, and possibly destroy the bark, thus possilbly killing the tree).

So one of the younger boys stated. That is why you should not kiss a deer, because he might have licked up someones urine. So one of the rules we developed is "Don't kiss any deers" Will have to remember that when the next court of honor happens.

"Health care should be a right in this country, and every American should have access to quality care"

I really do not understand this mentallity why should it be a right?

Freedom of speech I understand. Freedom of the press, ditto.

But freedom of going into any doctors office in the land and not having to pay, unsure of. Now then when the Federal govement has things running as smooth as maybe FedEx (Like th VA, or the Penetagon $500 hammer anyone,) then they can mess with health care for everyone.

Well the two party comment was sarcastic. I guess I should have noted that.

1. No sorry no military on the border, thier job is outside the country, going after the bad guys or detering them, I will not tie up the military that way, if individual states want to use thier National Guard that way, more power to them. Just a fence backed by lots of Border Patrol eyes both phyiscally and electronically.

2. I could be presuaded on the "no pay" instead of term limits. I might have its merits.

3. Taxes, sorry neccessary evil. Although after getting the budget back in order slowly reduce it as well.

4. Keep working on getting that thing balanced, maybe make them stay in DC until it does (this would work especially well if we turned off the AC in summer)

5. No getting around this one, slash, slash, slash the federal goverment.

6 and 7 must stay. (Beware of forign entanglements..One of our founding fathers statements)

8. Come on no one can hit all the notes except Celine Dion and she is Canadian.

9. I agree it is strong, but keep it that way.

10. We want those really smart forign kids to come here for school, maybe they will stay, win for us, or maybe they will go home with good, fond memories of the US.

No one really commented on the the life of my party which I think is key. When those items get done or time is up the party goes away. I believe this would limit the people that would get involved but only peole who really truely believe in the goals would get involved. Then with a set time limit the principles would not get watered down with a long standing party.

No have never been to the fine state of NH. Why do you ask.

As much as everyone loves the two Party system, I would love to create a new "party" but this one one would have a shelf life.

My Movements name "We the People" Reminding everyone that the power comes from the people. (Driven Primiarly by the ideals of the Founding Fathers)

When the goals of the "party" are accomplished or a set time limit is reached the group is disbanded. No, ifs ands or buts. Everyone out of the pool the party is over, the treasury gets emptied and given to either the Red Cross or the American Cancer Society or both.

The tenets/planks of my party Platform..

1. Secure the Borders. Put up a fence (or fences, with ditches cameras.... whatever it takes) make it high and strong, this would slow down illegal drugs, illegal immigrants and terrorists bringing in possible Weapons of Mass destruction.

2. Term Limits for the House and Senate. No more career politicians (three terms House, three in the Senate). Maybe term limits for Judical Appointees as well, I am thinking 30 years but this could be debated. In this same vein, no AC for the DC Staff offices in the summer months, that should keep them from messing around when everyone else is thinking vacation.

3. Either a flat rate tax for everyone above the poverty line, or a National Sales tax on everything except food (I favor the Sales tax, that way crooks and criminals who dont pay taxes, would be paying thier share when they are buying their bling, bling)

4. Balanced Budget Ammendment- If you cant afford it you dont go into deficit to spend it.

5. Cut the Federal Goverment to the Bone. Slash budgets for the Health and Human Services, Dept. of Education, Housing and Urban Renwel. If the states want to fund these things they can, but let the local politicans do it. (Do it gradually at first by cutting all the beuarcrats in these agencies and giving block grants to the states for a couple of years)

6. Stop sending Money overseas. Spend the money at home first. Restart the money only if they help us out or show a demonstrated support for us. Every time we try and buys friends they seem to forget our "friendship" when it comes to voting with us at the UN or other endeavors.

7. Send the UN away. We dont need the corruption and problems it brings. Still belong, but give another country a chance. I am thinking maybe forward the mail to somewhere in Siberia. See how many third world dictators want to belong then. (Heck we should even offer to help pay the moving costs if they would leave faster)

(I am sure NYC would love to get rid of the head aches and hassles involved as well)

8. Change the National Anthem to "America the Beautiful" Easier to sing and I think a better song.

9. Make the Military incredibly strong. Higher much higher pay. Weapons and armor and equipment all top notch. Enough so that we could fight two gulf wars at once. Let the guys who think they can take us re think it. Increase the Special Forces Units so that we can do what most people think is impossible.

10. If someone comes over here to go to school (Medical or Engineering...), have them take a six month course on America, with Pass of Fail grades. Topics include the Contstitution. Our Failures and our Sucesses. Field trips to DC and Philadelphia. Let them understand us for our best and worst.

How long a shelf life: 10 years, 15 or twenty. No more than twenty.

The Party does not get inlvolved with anything else just those issues.

Well America gets what it deserves, that is the beauty of a demorcary. You want it, you get it.

But like the old saying goes. "Be careful what you wish for."

I am wearing my "Live Free or Die" T-shirt to work today.

Lem it is obvious to me that you have not particpated much is Scouting, never seen the boys pull a Klondike derby sled or compete in a First Aid meet. Some pretty fierce competition takes place.

But it is also obvious that you have never seen a boy grow and mature from a troubled youth to a good leader and friend to others. From surely and selfish to helpful and one who watches out for those younger than himself. What you probably see a kids holding back others from truely excelling I see as an oppurtunity for the one who excel to coach, teach and assit the ones who dont get it as easily.

You show me a kid who can do a complicated skill I will be impressed, you show me a kid who can teach a complicated skill and I will be blown away.

Yes competition creates leaders and fine skills. But so does the scouting method of brotherhood and morales.

Scouts and Leaders have a limited amount of time together, no practices mandated by a schedule, if a boy does not want to come to a meeting or is involved in a school event wheather it be homework, band or football that might take priority for a while, for a season or so. But Boy Scouts is a year round activity that goes on for years if the boy is intrested. Scouts is also different in that we do our mundane tasks such as cleaning, cooking and others and try and treat each other according to the Scout Oath and Law.

I have been involved in competive sports, they taught me about teamwork and some hard life lessons. I have also studied martial arts, and although it does teach you discipline and self control it by no means gives you a complete moral compass.

Scouting is the whole picture, some competition, some mentoring, some life skills, confidence that I can take care of myself in a variety of situations (first aid, emergancy prepardness, wilderness survival, persnonal management, personal fitness and the list goes on and on)

If a boy wants to excel he will, I know some boys that have maxed out on the number of Palsms they could recieve by thier 18th birthday. I know some that have strived for every nature related merit badge they can get. Some boys get in the Order of Arrow and are dedicated to service. One kid I know trys to beat his own Mile Swim time every year at camp, while trying to get as many other kids to go for it with him as well.

I am not saying your "extreme competition" idea has no merits, but with everything else Scouting is trying to do, there is just not the time for it, at least in my opinion.

"Maybe you have articulated the reason why so many scout troops look and feel like the Special Olympics."

That statement alone makes me angry.

We had a special needs kid in my troop growing up, what did he get out of the program, lifelong skills that help him still cope with the world. What did us kids get out it, learning how to deal with a person with his unique and problematic needs. It changed him and us, both for the better.

I am not an all or nothing guy. I suggested that my ideas be an option, a choice, for those boys who want to go farther than the bare minumum requirements.

Why does the scouting movement have to be a Homogenious organization? Isn't it enough that it has a total Monopoly on the Scouting Movement in our Nation?

I think the same problems intrinsic in public schooling have been infecting scouting.

Egality at the sake of excellence.

And it is you who are articulating an all or nothing argument, not I.

Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Albert Einstein's office at Princeton)

Okay here are the rules for knot tying, the rope must be placed on a level table with the boys hands outside a twelve inch taped off section where the rope is, the boy is then told go and the knot tying commences. The boy announces done, and then the Offically trained and certified referee (not from that troop to make it offical) pronounces whether or not the knot is correct. If the boy wants his time entered into the database then the certified referee must use his code to enter it into the National Database. In order to compete at the National Level the council must have a certified competition........

Lem dont we really have enough to do, without bringing in all kinds of nonesense like the above sample.

Personally I want a boy who stands on his own, who can do skills profecienty and without hesitation, Bandage a wound to save a life, start a fire to keep himself warm, pick out the proper trail in the wilderness to get where he wants to go.

There is a time and place for competition, it drives and motivates a lot of people. Want to compete in orienting there are competitions for that.

But setting up a tent the fastest, you know what that means in my troop an oppurtunity to help another scout finish setting up his tent.

What happens when we put an emphasis on competition in Scouting, exclusion.

Little Timmy cant make the cut, so he gets left behind, because the "Competition" Patrol wants to get in ten miles before noon.

Jimmy has asthma and can't cut it on the climbing tower. Well then Jimmy sit down and let the Competition Patrol get thier "practice" time in, and if there is time before it gets dark we will let you try.

Johnny has ADD and has trouble learning to tie a slip knot, well sorry no one is there to work with you, but the "Competition" Patrol's assigned ASM is making sure they can tie the Monkey Fist knot for extra points at the next Knot Meet.

Scouting to me is about self-reliance and a moral code.

Maybe we should be more concerned with who is the best but if we ever get to that point you can count me out.