Tokala

Abel there was a huge LFL program for many years. We received funds from the State of Florida to support it. All of those funds have been cut off due to the BSA's membership requirements. Therefore, all of those youth are no longer with the BSA. We also recently lost sponsorship of Crews to ROTC which was about 250 youth.

Horizon, I was at the '81 Jamboree as well. I think they also had "Up With People" as one of the performers. I was the Lodge Chief after the '81 Jamboree and my staff adviser gave me a 45rpm record of 2 songs that the Oak Ridge Boys did for the Boy Scouts. I still have that record. I wonder if it is worth anything? I think that National gave each Council 5 copies?

I'm not the average unit-level volunteer. I am a Vice President and the Lodge Adviser. I take my responsisbilities seriously. I sat on the nominating and budget committee this year as well.

Abel, I don't need to ballpark. I have the data from our VP of Membership: 334 Tigers, 1262 Cubs, 1067 Webelos, 1559 Boy Scouts and 237 Venturers. Our 990 from 2011 matches the financial statements that I have from Executive Board meetings.

Basement, our staff pay for food. They usually pay/donate their presentation materials. We have a donor that makes all of our copies for us as a charitable donation. WE don't load up our training with a lot of the crap that other Councils do to keep costs reasonable. Our SE makes $121K.

I am so happy that my staff job keeps me so busy that I usually don't have time to attend the shows.

sit on the Executive Committee and review the independent audit every year. Our financial system and controls is accountable and transparent. It's the declining membershio that has us on the block.

Twocubdad, I looked through my old emails and I have deleted the budget with the specifics. I'm going from memory here with some rounding of figures. My Council budget for salaries which includes the office staff, professional staff, taxes, and benefits is around $500K. Our FOS goal is about $380K. I don't think that they have a break down on what percentage of their time is spent fundraising, advising council committees, etc.

FOS has different areas as well such as community division, family division, special events (golf or fishing tournaments, etc), Executive Board division, and direct mail.

The paranoia scares me more than outlawing guns or clinging feverishly to the 2bd amendment.

Being an Executive Board member of my Council, I get to review budgets, revenues and expenses. Each Council has 3 accounts: Operating, Capital and Endowment. Rarely do funds cross over between the accounts. Our Board made it policy that 5% of the endowment gets credited towards the operating account each year. The capital account is not used for regular maintenance at properties, that falls under the operating account. The capital account pays for major renovations or new construction at camps or the Council office.

So, the operating account has multiple lines of income/rvenue: FOS, grants, bequests, United Way, sales of merchandise at the Scout shop, camping revenue, investment income, activity revenue and others. Our FOS goal is about a third of the total revenue projected in the budget. The remainder comes from the other sources. Sadly, the salaries are a larger expense than the FOS goal.

I feel badly for basementdweller. Those costs are outragous compared to my Council. Our Wood Badge and NYLT run about $175. We don't add in all the swag/crap (patches, jackets, etc) that only drive the cost up. Our IOLS and basic leader training might cost $15-20 to cover food and the copies/printing that we distribute.

National does review camps and if they are self-supporting. I could check next week when I'm in Dallas and see if I can get a percentage of which ones generate revenue, break even or lose money. I know it costs my Council $100K annually to keep our facilities open (lights, water, ranger, etc). I bet the biggest chunk is the Council Service Center.

Costs to be involved in Scouting are skyrocketing. I find it laughable that one talking point is diversity and yet the costs prohibit many from joining. No matter how hard they try, it will always be priced as a group for middle-class or upper-class folks. Kind of difficult to diversify when only certain people can afford it.

It was hilarious that they conveniently omitted "Professional staff salaries" from the list of things FOS pays for.

While West Central Florida is still short a DE for months now, it seems that the "powers above" will not provide candidtaes to interview. Guess their goal of merging out the Council becomes easier when they can use the lack of professionals against the Council in it's performance.

I don't have any need or desire to own a firearm. I've been hunting and to the range, but I'm happy to say the desire to own one has never struck me. I am becoming concerned about a more paranoid society that thinks arming everyone is a way to be secure. Seems our priorities lie in the wrong place.

We had our annual Council business meeting last night and I noticed that the deputy region director was listed as a guest. He was there to notify us that they are already planning on giving us a conditional or transitional charter for 2013. We haven't even closed out 2012 yet and they're threatening us simply so they can merge my Council to suit their needs. Unless the Region Director changes, we'll be merged in a few years. I just hope to be able to manage it so it's the best option for the kids in my Council.

The deputy region director slipped in his comments and showed his true colors when he stated "we have to get past the volunteers to make this work". It's the volunteers that make Scouting work. Merging Councils to sell camps and hire more professionals doesn't grow the "business".

It started back in early 2000's when merging Councils gained traction. Lodges started to "cherry pick" numbers of older superseded/merged Lodges probably just to try to add some weird value/importance to their patch. It became obvious to me when a Lodge picked #219, the old Calusa Lodge. It makes no sense other than the associated value of a Calusa lodge flap on why someone would choose that number.

National won't prevent a Lodge from using the old chronologically issued number, but a member better know their Council number if they need to register for NLS, NLATS or NOAC.

West Central Florida recently went from 4 to 3 Districts. The realignment took place January 1, 2012. On a Council level, program pretty much remained the same. The Districts seemed to have some pains keeping things organized, but that could be more about the leadership that was chosen rather than new boundaries. I do know that the Districts had major shifts in FOS leadership and we struggled mightly with fundraising.

Jeffrey, we did have the colored tabs that were strung on the garters for our socks in the 70s that indicated what program we were participating in....

Sure the numbers are important to some. It was important to me except I realize how much grief it could cause people in some situations. Might as well take the opportunity to educate the members.

We've pulled the old number from patches and just go with the name. I'd rather develop an identity/pride in a name rather than a number.

You can use the old number, but the Lodges have new numbers: the Council number. My Lodge, Timuquan, was chartered in 1946 as Timuquan Lodge 340. I did my Ordeal in 1977 and have been active in the Lodge ever since including many times in various youth leadership and adult adviser positions. I was appointed Lodge Adviser to Timuquan in 2011. I thought that it was doing the membership a disservice to continue using the old number. If someone was to try to register for NOAC or NLS, they need to know that the Lodge number is 089 and 340. They would be unable to register as someone from Lodge #340 since it is now in National's system as #089.

A number is that, just a number.

Lodge numbers did go away when the merging frenzy started years ago. All Lodges use their Council number now and that eliminates duplication or cherry-picking. If you register for a National OA event, they only use the Council number and the old chronoloigcally issued lodge numbers have been stripped. Somefolks still hopelessly cling to the old numbers.

As a Lodge Advisor, I would encourage my Lodge Chief to have a separate uniform for Exectuive Board meetings that did not have unit numerals and use the Executive Board patch and silver loops. For a youth, that gives him a little "standing" with the old farts on the Executive Board.

Amen, Eamonn! At the 2010 National Jamboree I had some old guy yelling at me because I parked to deliver his ice where he didn't want me to park. He kept yelling and even decided to throw in "I have more power because I wear gold loops". Little did he now that I also wore gold loops at that time. He was a silly, grumpy old man.

I think there are a couple of issues:

Parents nowadays don't camp. Why would they want their kid involved in something that they don't have any knowledge?

I think Scouting has focused marketing on the wrong part of the organization. Kids don't join Scouting because it teaches values. Kids join becaause they want to go camping, hiking, scuba diving, etc. The values marketing needs to be subliminal so the parents understand, but the outdoor adventure needs to be theit primary marketing if they want kids to join. It's easier to get a kid interested and have them drag the parent along than it is to get a parent interested and them force the kid to get involved.

WasE61, funny thing about that liability issue: the BSA carries the primary coverage for the liability and the charter organization is secondary. Besides, in civil cases, the individual can sue whoever they want. First rule of lawsuits :"Don't sue people that don't have money"

I started a thread about this a couple of months ago because my Council was the first to find out. In Florida, the UMC added a paragraph to the end of the Charter agreement and then copied the form. It was sent out to the Methodist churches with instructions to not sign the Charter unless the BSA agreed to the added paragraph. Since the document is a National document and not a local Council document, we sent it on to Irving to be resolved. Until we sent it to the National office, they were unaware of this. Apparently the National BSA lawyers and the UMC Men's Group lawyers have been discussing the issue.

The issue was over the liability issue if lawsuits are filed over sexual abuse. Guess they didn't realize that the defendent can choose who to sue regardless of an agreement between the charter partners.

Plenty of good ideas so far. My Lodge will do a James West and send the certificate to the family.

ON a more light-hearted note, I have told people that I don't want anything named after me because it would mean that I was dead.

jgood, West Central Florida Council has one DE slot open and wil probably have another open soon. I'm not sure what experience they are looking for in a recruit. Council is headquartered in Seminole, FL.

"review was conducted for each camps program strengths that evaluated facility conditions, location to population centers, attendance and financial sustainability."

This is a new addition to the National Camp Accreditation Program. I received the new standards and they came with an email trail that suggests the camp visitation will evaluate program, facilities, attendance and finance. It is suggesting that the Area/Region level people can effectively shut down a summer camp program. The next step is a suggestion to sell the property.

There seems to be a thinly disguised effort by "those above" to reduce properties and increase cash in the bank. Not sure why they are heading this way since we know that they aren't going to make more land.