TheGong

Will make an OA "Legend Belt" for anyone interested. Price is set at $50. See pictures. Comment or PM me for details

If you actually look deeply at the STEM Program you will see that it is about kids looking at the world around them and discovering what and how things work. This go's hand in hand with the outdoor program. Yes there are some aspects that are "inside" activities but by and by the STEM Program works best in an outdoor setting.

The Fees really depend on what you get at camp. I know when my lodge (Agaming Maangogwan) goes to camp Rotary in Clare MI we pay more money but what do we get?

1) Food cooked by the year round professional staff

2) A very large dinning hall with full basement

3) At least 2 cabins

Now we are at camp to do service for the camp, (remember the OA was started at a summer camp and one of our core principles is to promote and support the council camping program) but we get so much back from the camp that our cost may go up but we still get a discounted price.

So to go off another thread, the recent changes to the Venturing Program drastically changes the initial purpose and intent of the program.

It is my understanding (but I may be wrong) that the point of Venturing is freedom. The choice to do what you want, when you want, with whom you want (so long as it falls under the guide to safe scouting, YPT, ect). This model, although never very successful, was still the main factor for joining Venturing (it is why I joined and many others in my Crew).

With the changes to the program I see that the very essence of the program has been ripped out and now there is very little if any difference (aside from being co-ed and and older age range) than a Boy Scout Troop. So I ask why Venture anymore when we can just do Venture Patrols?

I like the thought of the contest where people write their own ceremony and submitted them and take the best elements of each. We would get an amalgam of a ceremony that in the end would hopefully be a meaningful and not so contrived ceremony.

So it looks like most lodges who do this have a year round necklace that people continually add to, but what we do is just a token like your ordeal arrow that you only where while doing your brotherhood.

So in 2012 when my lodge merged with 3 others we decided to create a brotherhood token much like the Ordeal Arrow. We thought that since the Ordeals have their arrows, and the Vigils have their cookies then why don't the brotherhoods have bars? Each Brotherhood candidate gets a set of two horizontal red bars that hang around their neck. I was just wondering if any other lodges do something like this?

lapeer county' date=' blue star district, its sad, really, my son initially wasn't sure about OA untill he talked to dan segersin, now hes sure that its all talk., on a side note, The boys only do what the adults allow them to do, so they do it right ( direct quote from a senior scout[/quote']

 

Well Blue Star district does not have a local chapter which is most likely why you have had difficulty with the OA.

I'm not sure what you mean by "all talk" can you clarify?

As far as youth doing only what adults allow them to do, so they do it right I can tell you from personal experience that as a youth I messed up a lot as an officer but quickly learned.

I suspect one designated writer and some tweaking of that version and it was a done deal' date=' take it or leave it. [/quote']

 

Wow you are right!

The author of the new script is also the author of the highly utilized ceremonies pamphlet "the Drum". If you are familiar with "The Drum" you will notice he used the same concepts in both. I do not like that he wrote it as I do not share the same views or concepts of the ceremonies as he does.

In my troop once you became an Eagle Scout you were allowed to be a JASM, but I broke the status quo in that instead I became the OA rep as I was just elected to serve as a Lodge Officer. Since turning 18 I have not seen any Eagles from my troop become a JASM.

I feel that it is for those who coach, preform, and live for the ceremonies but aren't the ceremonies for all members and should be easily understood for all members?

The beauty of our ceremonies is in their simplicity but also in the way that they can move you and you can understand them, but there are also some mystery's that keep us in debate. Why do we talk about Shakespeare to this day? Because he wrote good stories that can be grasped by everyone.

As far as the knife test goes I have seen someone faint because of the fake blood however if you are clear in the lines leading up to it and you continually explain that nothing bad will happen to the candidates during the brotherhood hike then there shouldn't be a problem.

The Gong - you could bring back another Principal/helper, but it is at times a logistical nightmare to try and get just the four together at one time for even a scheduled Ceremony.....to add one more to the list...

Well what I mean is that instead of calling the new person in the story his new name you could just pick an old one.

Although I would not have gone with the story route at all, Brotherhood is a continuation of the Ordeal, a commitment to the Order. Why tell a story about brotherhood when you goal during the ceremony is to test/have the candidates prove themselves as embodiment's of the W.W.W. For this story to work you have to be very familiar with the Legend and be able to follow a new offshoot of it. How many Vigil members can even give the main parts of the Legend???? Let alone Brotherhood Candidates.

I see where they are going with the adversary’s name and I understand and “get†the symbolism behind it, but what you end up with is a name that means absolutely nothing; it’s not a legitimate word.

In the first written version of the Ordeal there were at least 6 principles in the ceremony. Why not bring one of them back into the story?

So I think that the old ceremony needed to be changed and this new ceremony takes a completely opposite approach to how to explain brotherhood. I think there needs to be a middle ground somewhere. Keep some of the traditions such as how they great each other in the old ceremony, keep the old closing, and combine everything else from the new one.

So the New Brotherhood ceremony was released yesterday and after reading it, I mean devouring it, I can say that there are some items in it that are most definitely not to my liking. Am I alone? Be aware that Ordeal members can see this page.

Who likes the ceremony?

There is a new World Crest ring it is slightly different than the 2010 issue. Do to popular demand national has come out with the new ring, it does not signify anything special like the messengers of peace ring. She should not have included it in with the required patches as its extra and a pain in the butt to put on.

michigan agagamee something something

That's Agaming Maangogwan. There are 27 counties in the lodge many districts are 3, 4, 5 all the way up to 9 counties. There are often not enough units in some areas of the lodge to do elections.

In Agaming Maangogwan it is up to the youth leaders of every district to contact units about elections. Most will talk at the district round tables to initiate elections.

Call-outs are primarily done at summer camp and the only Agaming Maangogwan based call-out is done at Camp Rotary.

As one of the Lodge Program Advisers for Agaming Maangogwan I will do my best to encourage the youth leaders to rectify any problems, which district/city do you live in?

Why not do both? My venture crew is also a Sea Scout ship. We follow Venturing Advancement and then we also follow Sea Scout advancement. During some parts of the year we concentrate on Sea Scouts and some parts of the year we concentrate on Venturing. Since we are a very active crew most of what we did as Venturers counts towards Sea Scout Advancement. During our meetings we either split time between working on Sea Scout stuff and Venturing stuff or we alternate meetings. This seems to work out the best with peoples intrests.

I don't know where people get the notion that camps are being sold, since from the begining of the Area 2 project the board said that they would not sell any camp. These camps are not closed, they are resting and some of them have been taken off that resting list.

The four boy scout summer camps will each have 7 weeks of camp, each week is full. D-Bar-A has 3 sub camps that all run 7 weeks and are the only camps not currently at capacity.

We really do need more DEs the district to the norht of me has 9 counties and only 1 part time DE. My district has 5 counties and 1 full time DE and one part time DE that is shared with two other districts. My field service council covers 27 counties in some of the poorest sections in Michigan.

The Area 2 project is a blessing in disguise. Right now things are convuluted and inchoerent but the fact that we do not have to sell one of our camps (which we has LHAC were going to do within 10 years) is a Godsend.

I've always thought that venturing will not last another 10 years, (2022). It has no real structure to it that the youth can lash onto like boy scouts. Granted some crews like mine to a really good job and have good membership numbers and do many superactivites, but my experience is that the vast majority of crews, over 90%, struggle to stay afloat each year. One problem is that the older venturers are off in college and have jobs that make meetings and events difficult.

As far as the oath and code go, I always thought they were dumb and had no actual meaning to them. It seams to me that someone wrote them at 2:00am in 10 mins. In my crew there are a quite a few boy scouts who all can recite and explain the points of the scout oath and law and most have their eagle, which they cherish.

So the uniforms aren't in shops anymore, who cares, they were god aweful and poorly designed.

As far as advancement goes, it's too easy. Most boy scouts who join my crew get their outdoor bronze within 2-3 months, the girls maybe 4-6 months. The gold award most of our venturers get it just after their gold. Silver at most 6 months from their gold. Allthogether time 1 1/2 to 2 years.

Thank you guys so much, most of what you said I had planned on doing but there were some new ideas that I will deffinetly do. The troop is still a little small so the patrols might take some time but I really like Guy's comment the best,

"just make the changes all at once...our prior SM labored, for years, saying "we're working on that" (in terms of re-instituting patrol method), and that was part of the problem. If you're stuck halfway, you're not really there. So just do it."

Everything will be quick.

I'm about to start work with a troop that has been adult led for a few years (becuase of one pushy mom) and I was wondering if anyone else has done this and what did you do to help the process of Adult to youth led?

Okay BadenP you fail to see my point, the original question was asking for an opinion I gave my opinion. You take handbooks to literally, a venture crew is not a boy scout troop they are very different, but how you show leadership is very similar.

I am a crew president and I do ask my officers to wear the class A on the first of every month. In my crew the uniform is one of our methods.

But the question orginally asked was, if the president wears the class A then should the other officers? In my opinion yes they should but thats an opinion im not stating a fact.