t487scouter

Great advice Unc, I actually have been pretty demanding but it just isn't working with this group. I now have a few more parents to pick on since cross over and I am planning an informal parent/scout day at my house. My plan is to invite everyone over, let the boys just play and run around the yard cook some hotdogs and get the parents together and basically sign them up for positions and MB. In the past I haven't had a problem recruiting parents, I am also a den leader for a WEBELO group which the pack committee consists of mostly my parents.

As for the cabin fire story. Sorry but I don't believe it was to teach the scouts. I believe that your bag was too cozy to get out of, might as well have the boys do it and call it a learning experience! This is the same reason I keep rolled up socks in my bag in similar circumstances.........just in case one of the boys disn't wake up lol.

Dan, my retention rate is not a good indicator because the troop has only been active for a little over a year. I have all the boys I started with and just gained 10 more. The last month of meetings are as follows:

4-OA nomination/organized patrol box

3-knots

2-Visited a local sporting goods store (they lock the boys inside after closing, gave a snow clinic, then the boys get to run play with equipment, try on backpacks, etc)

1-wrapped fishing poles.

To everyone that wrote, thanks! All of your advice really helps me out.

To Fscouter, please pardon me for my ignorance and I understand what you are saying about identity but if for instance there are 2 scouts in one patrol and 8 in the others would it not be better for the boys to absorb into the other patrol(s)? This would especially make sense (to me anyway) if the boys weren't great friends. It would seem to me that they would have a better time with the rest of the boys rather than just be by themselves. I am afraid that this is going to eventually happen to me as more boys are put into Senior patrol positions. If I don't get any recruits in the same age bracket, at what point do I allow the patrol size diminish to before putting them into another patrol? If there are two or 3 boys in a patrol and two don't show to a meeting because of flu or sports is he to be by himself while the other boys do their patrol activities?

I have seen many troops that require X-amount of attendance to meetings and camps. I also know that BSA pushes 1st class by the 1st year, but is this right? In MHO, I look at it as boys we are trying to turn in to outstanding, well rounded, young men. Scouting teaches them more than any other program but there are lessons to learn and fun to be had with sports and other activities also. I would like them to attend every meeting and camp but understand when they have other commitments as well. Same with advancement. I offer all they need to advance but I don't push it. Some meetings are designed around advancement (knots, etc.) but it is not something I push. I figure if the boys are having a good time and they stay somewhat involved they are learning the whole time. I would rather the boys be great young men when they turn 18 and don't care if they have earned Eagle or not. Is my thinking off? Am I cheating the boys?

Torribug, I would be interested in hearing their response. I am not an accountant, I just assumed you could not do that. If I ever come across a fundraiser that made the troop millions I was just going to buy excess gear for the troop and have the quartermaster divy out as needed. It would be much better if the boys could buy their own!

I use individual accounts for my scouts but the money can only be used to pay for camps, dues, etc. I did not think it was legal for the boys to use this money, collected as a fundraser, to buy their own equipment. As we make money, are we fundraising as a non-profit? I assumed that because we were making money as a non-profit that equipment could be purchased for the troop but not personal gear, am I wrong?

Hi Anarchist, I really wasn't bashing on everyone, I was just frustrated after reading the "patrol size" post and should have just left it alone. I do find a lot of knowledge on this board and respect all that you and others do for the boys and to help people out. The comments I made were not for people posting in disagreement but rather not respecting each other. If you were to revisit the "patrol size" post I am sure you would agree with what I was talking about. My mistake was just taking a sampling of a few posts and they were the same, I went no further. Now that I have been reading the recent posts I am embarrassed I posted this and wish it would go away.

You wrote:

>>Like in your original post...I might point out that even thought you said you were the 'SM and the committee'...I would reply...'can't be... The BSA organizational book says so'...nothing personal, but not what you want to hear, I'll bet...Your CO is letting you down (?) who is the CO? In any case you are operating outside of BSA regs...Passionate or not about Scouting you are breaking the rules...I say this not to make you mad...though it may do that but to spur you on to solve the proble quickly...so is that wrong?

Would I be better off without a troop guide? This troop was started a year ago, the most experienced scout is one MB from star, is 15 Y/O, and is my SPL. With the other SP members, this leaves me with only 4 boys in the patrol. I have just recieved 9 boys at cross over for a new patrol. If I started a Troop guide position, this would take the one patrol to 3 boys and the only scout that is interested is only second class. Would I be better off not having a troop guide and just have the SP and occasionaly the ASM help them? What do troops do when a patrol is reduced to just a few scouts through position changes or dropping out? When they only number a few are they moved into another patrol?

What is the most effective way of using a Troop guide? Does the troop guide remain in his original patrol or does he become a member of the new patrol? Does he help the boys of the new patrol at each meeting or just when they require help? Does he camp with the new patrol as well?

Thanks,

Todd

Thanks for the words of encouragement. It seems I should have waited before posting the last message. I have read some of the recent posts and have not found the content that I mentioned. It is not that I was offended or running, unfortunately I have very little time in the day. I thought this was a great place to post questions and read other posts to learn and thought it sad to have to wade through each post to find some worthwhile information. I do believe that everyone is and should be entitled to their opinion and we can learn from each other even in disagreement. It was the slamming of people that I didn't like and again I just happened to stumble on a few old posts and assumed the majority of the forum was like this. Sorry for my assumption!

Pack561, what is a port-a-pit chicken sale?

I have been sitting here trying to decide if I should write this or not. I am writing it in hopes that another person can use this forum as a great tool and will stay and learn. I have been involved in scouting for 7 years, I am on my 2 group of WEBELOS as well as Scoutmaster for a new troop I started last year. This new troop was composed of my first group of WEBELOS that had crossed over, became bored and dropped out of Scouting. My son was also talking about quitting when I asked if he would give it a try in a new troop, my troop was born. I have very little experience with a troop but poured through the books (training in my area has been very tough to come by.) My troop is less than ideal, I am having trouble with the boys advancing, I am the committee with the exception of a treasurer, my last parent meeting consisted of myself and my wife. As you can see I have problems but I will not give up, I somehow managed to double in size last week and it seems I now have parents willing to help. Like all that use this forum, I am passionate about scouting. I feel that scouting offers more than any other program around. When I first stumbled on this forum you have no idea how glad I was. Even after digesting the first few posts I gained a lot of knowledge, and then it happened, I read on. I remember telling a person in our committee a few years ago, if there is going to be a problem with the pack, the source will more than likely be the parents, not the boys. It seems, in my eyes anyway, that adults have pretty much screwed up this forum.......again, in my eyes. Tonight I picked two posts, one on tobacco and the other on patrol size. After reading through these my stomach churned with the personal attacks and the thought that everyone else is wrong and my way is the only way. What made it worse was the fact it never ended, there were continual digs on the other people posting. One person in particular was defended by another saying he is never wrong, he is always right in his posts, he knows everything. Does it matter? If someone is abrasive as this do you really want to listen to them, not wanting to post because you fear an attack? How can I truly listen to advice by somone who has apparently never followed the scout law or scout oath? It is fine to disagree but not to belittle others because their opinion differs. Again, sorry to post this but it is in hopes these few people won't run off another who seeks advice and wants to be part of a group of people sharing something they love. Now, can someone point me to a forum I can learn and adults act as they should?

Studdman, thanks for the additional thoughts. I am in Wa as well, just north of Vancouver. We have had xmas tree recycling fundraisers every year, what used to yield 2500 now pulls in about 500. I thought the flag service was a great idea, I just don't know why it failed. I bought flags at Home Depot for the few accounts we have. I do have a phone number that would sell 3x5, American made flags for about $3.50 if they were bought in bulk (100) I can try to find it if you are interested. I used EMT, I was afraid of the plastic bowing. I use 3/4" for the base and 1/2" for the flag pole. To install the bases I sharpened a piece of 3/4 EMT and welded a handle across the top. I can then push it into soft soil or hammer it into hard soil. Made the mistake of putting the 1st few into grass, even with careful measuring and marking the sidewalk they are too difficult to find. Thought about buying a metal detector if we could get more accounts. I got this idea from a SM in TX. He told me that he sends some boys out the day before the holiday and they place those little yard flags (2x2" plastic flags on a wire) that they use for marking utilities and invisible dog fences in their holders so they spend less time placing the flags. Also, using EMT you can use connectors for the metal pipe. I figured if I ever get any parents that are interested in helping out they may not have a truck to haul the flags. I could cut the poles into 2 5' pieces so they could haul them in their cars.(This message has been edited by t487scouter)

Could be the area I live in but this didn't work for us. We knocked on 500 doors, handed out fliers and now have 4 accounts. For 140/year, it is not worth it to us to put up and take down the flags for the 7 holidays. I am now wondering if I should canvas the area again and hope to get more accounts and make it worthwhile or just quit at the end of this year. Problem is I have not found any other fundraiser that has worked. I just started this troop and have put in more than 2k of my own money in camping gear etc. I have been racking my brain trying to think of something that doesn't compete with school/sports like candy and popcorn and nothing yet works. We even made bird houses out of cedar with license plate roofs, everyone though they were great yet only sold about 20. I am actually thinking about having the boys make picnic tables and try to sell them. I have found that projects which the boys get to make something really gets them motivated, I just need to find the right thing!