Sylvar

Having been in a similar position long ago when I was trying to keep my troop alive I want to share a little story.

I didn't even have a son in scouting at the time, I just didn't want to see my old troop fold. After I got my Eagle I stayed involved in many ways. At some point there was a leadership crisis and the troop was on the verge of collapse. I was under 21 and so had to recruit other adults to join and contribute. First route was just as Beavah suggested, scale back and implore the parents to participate. That helped, but didn't fully solve the problem. We had the bodies present to make everything legal, but I was working myself to death along with being a full time college student. We didn't have a UC, but I took the problem my old scoutmaster (he had turned the troop over to someone capable several years earlier who then turned it over to someone not so capable who quit..thus the problem) and he suggested talking to the DE and explain the problem...he also let me know that he had heard that another local troop was also having trouble. Talked to the DE and he put me in touch with the other trouble troop. Ultimately we came to an agreement to merge. Those boys and their leaders moved into our troop and I handed over the official SM title to the leader of the other troop...that was fine with me since I wasn't really allowed to be SM anyway.

Troop did fine for many years after that. I have since moved from the area and am now watching my son progress in scouting. Good luck to you. You have the will, I have no doubt you will find a way to succeed.(This message has been edited by sylvar)

"Our Cub Summer Adventure Camp Weekend costs $108 per Scout and $83 per adult (early bird prices were $88/$63). "

For a weekend? Wow...you live in a more affluent area than I do. There was a minor uprising here 2 years ago when the price for Cub daycamp (thats FIVE days) went from $40 to $50.

Oh, for what its worth... I've taken my family of 6 camping for the weekend for under $50 not counting gas money. Its not that hard really. Of course camping in some areas cost more than others (just like everything else).

True and the original Jurys award reflects that. They found her to be 20% responsible for the injury and reduced the award accordingly. What this boils down to is what does a reasonable person expect to happen in that situation....A reasonable person expects to get burned ..A reasonable person does not expect their skin to be removed. The coffee was held at a temp in excess of 180 degrees. A household hot water heater only goes to 145 for a reason. Temps above that cause severe burns. I happen to deal with a lot of hot water on the farm. At 145 degrees I can perfectly scald a chicken. At 155 degrees the skin cooks quickly and tissue damage can occur in 15 seconds. Every 3 degrees beyond 155 causes exponentially more damage.

Read the link. Imagine thats your Grandmother/Mother/Wife. I am not arguing this to change your mind so much as to make sure folks understand that particular story since it is sited so often as a frivolous lawsuitthere are plenty of lawsuits that match that description to a T (how about the guy that wanted 50 million for a pair pants that the Dry Cleaner lost?) Go after themmock and ridicule to your hearts content and Ill be right there by your side.but leave this poor lady alone.

Ok Ed, I can't let that one slide. I apologize to all for the thread jacking that is about to occur.

The woman in question did not sue McDonalds for millions of dollars trying to get rich. All she wanted was for McDonalds to pay for the SKIN GRAFTS required to repair the damage to her legs. Why? Because the coffee was held at temp that could cause a full thickness burn in 2 seconds to save money. I could go into the details of this case further, but its already been done in great detail here: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

Without a doubt McDonalds was negligent in that case. Get the facts before you pass judgement.

RangerT,

I have side with John here...Again we are talking about semantics. You called it a worship service and he is merely responding to that very narrow point. If you have an interfaith troop the "service" is not a "worship service"... It simply cannot be. Its got nothing to do with BSA, or PLC decisions. These are matters of faith that are out of their control. If a denomination/religion REQUIRES certain rituals/affirmations as part of WORSHIP then those must be met before you can call it such. Really, I am not trying to ruffle feathers here, but the point John is making is a specific one not a broad one. He isn't saying he can't sit in fellowship, discuss matters of faith or enjoy an outing with scouters of other faiths.....he is saying he can't WORSHIP with them.

Thank you gentlemen for your explanation. I concur with your assessment that individual worship is the best option in that circumstance. However I think coming to together as a group and discussing the importance of the 12th point in our lives is acceptable.

I guess what I am getting at is this: How much of this is semantics?

Lets look at it : "Interfaith Worship Service"....Its an oxymoron isn't it? There isn't a Religion that I can think of that has worship criteria in its doctrine that would count an "Interfaith Worship Service" as cutting the mustard....and I think you agree with me on that (please correct me if I am wrong). It isnt really a Worship service for anyone is it? I think a gathering that isnt a worship, but instead an opportunity remind the scouts about the reasons reverence is one of the scout laws would be completely acceptable.

Your thoughts?

Thanks again for your patience and explanation

Thanks John,

You answered the second question clearly. I am still unclear on your position on the first. Let me try to restate (and narrow) that question in a clearer fashion: In an multifaith troop would it be your position that NO services should be held?

I just wanted to also say that I fully understand your position on your personal faith and that an interfaith service is in opposition to those beliefs.

Narraticong and John,

Please help me understand your position. Are you suggesting that you would prefer that there were NO services at all during scout outings or that should be Christian ONLY sevices?

Thanks

We did this as a Bear Den. We did a neighborhood trash pick up. I think the spirit of that req is pretty wide. Doing a service project of almost anykind would meet it.

On a side note, I did't have to wait 3 months to get the awards, but it was 4 weeks...but that was 2 years ago.

Sylvar

John,

I know the MBC doesn't HAVE to accept any prior work if they choose not too...But let spin your scenario a little. Say you were on staff at this event and you knew what happened there. And say the req is a "Participate in...." type req which was fulfilled.....Would you accept that?

I understand the scenario you are trying to short circuit and agree...Any Req that is a "Describe how to/Why" or "Show how to" are easily repeated and are no burden on the Scout if he truly learned the material. MBC has every right...and should question the boys on those types of reqs.

Yours in Scouting

I think you are at the same point I was when I was told that the new boys could not use the things they had done at the camporee because they weren't already working with a MBC.....I don't get it either.

Thats a slippery slope isn't it? Whats to stop a kid from sandbagging? I don't think I'd ever explain it quite like that, however I understand your point.

"The counselor suggests that the Scout bring the merit badge pamphlet, the Application for Merit Badge, and any work that he has started or accomplished, and that he prepare by reading over the requirements."

THANK YOU SIR! That is exactly what I was looking for.

I agree completely. Its between the MBC and the scout, not the SM. The targets hypothesis was just me building off of the example given by another poster.

There were two primary points the SM and I disagreed on (this wasn't an arguement mind you, just a discussion about some finer points of advancement).

1) How long a completed req was good for.

He claimed it was 6 - 12 months, I did not think that was the case. I have found documentation (in the same document that you are referencing) that a completed req is good until a scout turns 18.

2) Whether or not a scout had to contact a MBC before starting a Merit Badge. He said a MBC would not accept work started beforehand, again I did not believe that to be the case.

Thanks again!

Yours in Scouting

John and Scott,

I think we are mostly in agreement. I agree that the reqs should be specific and verifiable. No qualms with that what so ever. I do think that the ultimate question of if work should be accepted or not falls to the MBC not the SM. To use scottteng's example, if a scout has his 5 targets and the SM knows they were fairly shot (not altered) I don't think he has a right to keep the scout from submitting them to the MBC.

Thanks guys. I think I have my answers.

Thanks for the links John. To your point about not wanting to have to accept a wholesale list....shouldn't that be your choice and not the SM?

fgoodwin, to your point - No one. The camporee was greared towards a particular setof MBs and any boy who had participated in an earlier event knew that certain topics would be covered and used for MB completion.

Yes, I am in a council that uses blue cards. I have been making every effort to get training. When we moved up I told the SM that I was willing to help out where ever he needed it. He asked me to be a Merit Badge Counselor. The training isn't scheduled any where but I found the Training Materials online as well as the instructors materials. Both were quite informative and answered several of the questions I had.

Can you point me to the documentation that spells out that protocol? It seems odd to me that a scout would be denied a req he had completed at a district scouting event. Why even publish the reqs covered after the fact if that were a hard rule. Of course that is what is at issue, gray areas. SM sees things in black and white with no room for interpretation....and some things in scouting are that way. However, there are things in scouting that are gray and in my mind the you don't penalize the scouts for that.

I think the main reason I am taking a stance on this rather than just sayin "well, thats how that Troop works" is that I don't see a focus on advancement. Most of the boys that crossed over last year are still wearing their Scout Rank...now I don't know if this is because they haven't earned tenderfoot or if they haven't been handed their ranks yet, but after a year any active scout (and I know these boys went to summer camp) should be beating down the door of first class.

What about the first half... Do they have to have started the MB (Meaning formally contacted a MBC) before an event for the activities to count? Is there any documentation out there in this regard? I am not going to be able to change his mind without clear documentation. I read through all the MBC training material before I posted the question here and saw nothing that nswered this question.

I bring that point up mostly because I remember my days as a scout. On more than one occasion being introduced to some topic at a scouting event and becoming interested in it. I would check to see what I had already done at the event and take the steps needed to complete the MB....a course of action which the current SM clearly does not approve of.

Thanks Again!

Hi All, I haven't posted here in a long time, but I figure this would be a good place to have this question answered.

My Den just crossed over to the local troop and we went to our first camporee with them. I was curious to see what the dynamic would be. I am a life long scouter, but I don't want to go into this troop stepping on toes. I offered my services to the ScoutMaster (who I knew from his time in the Pack)as Advancment Chair and apparently opened a can of worms. He seems to hold several beliefs about the merit badge program that I disagree with...Some of which I can now prove are mistaken, but others I can't find any clear-cut information on.

How are Merit Badge Reqs fulfilled at Camporees handled? We were handed a list of the reqs the boys had completed at the camporee, but he said they can't actually use them unless they had previously started the merit badges and their counselors were present to recognize the work....in other words the boy who just crossed over could not use the activites at the camporee to fulfill merit badge reqs.

I have similar question in regards to thing that take place on troop outings. For example- Does the MBC have to be present on the 30 mile hike needed for Backpacking MB for it to count? I have a hard time believing that to be the case.

Yours in Scouting

The DE in this case has managed to PO everyone on the District Committee. My feeling is that the relationship between He (the DE) and the rest of the committee has broken down to the point that he wants to move EVERYONE out and start over. Sadly, I do not think he understands that he lacks the political capital to do this successfully.

The DE in my district has decided he wants to replace the District Chairman. Does he really have the power to do that? The current DC is doing a good job I think, but he and the DE don't see eye to eye. The DE has asked me to sit on the commitee that will be selecting/interviewing a replacement. I don't feel completely comfortable with that and probably will not accept.

Any thoughts out there?

We just did our centerpieces. Here is what we did.

I printed the 75th logo and the logo with the mascots with the cake twice for each boy. I had them glue those back to back to make a flag. each flag was taped to an 18" X 1/4 dowel rod. Then I had each of them decorate the bottom of a Chinet brand paper bowl (very sturdy brand). I then hot glued the bowl to a paper plate. then we poked 2 holes in the top of the bowl (actually I did this to all the bowls beforehand). Then the flags were stuck into the holes and crossed in the middle. they were tied together with a short piece of blue or gold ribbon. They came out great!

Sylvar

I have several slides. My favorite is the first one I ever made. I made an arrowhead slide from a ham bone when I was 12. I still have that one.

Sylvar

Todd,

It is my understanding that Venturing Crews get to pick their uniform. Salute away!

Sylvar

OK. I am ready to dive into this one. Not fully armed, but we will see what develops. I collect Scout paper goods. That means MB books, fieldbooks, Hand books and so forth. This discussion made me pour over some of those and see what I could find.

The first reference I can find to an "Activity Uniform" in a Hand book is in the Tenth edition. In that edition every other scout pictured is in an "Official Activity Uniform". In that edition it is defined as follows : "The activites Uniform consists of a knit shirt (red for Boy Scouts, maroon for Venture Crews, tan for varsity Teams), Khaki shorts, and short white socks"

I have only just realized that the only copy of the Ninth edition that I own was mine when I was a scout. As such, it has been beaten to blue blazes and is missing the uniform section. However, one can infer much from the pictures used. Aside from those scout pictured in the water, all were in what would be concidered "Class A". In the Seventh and Eigth editions it plainly states that the khaki shirt is the proper attire for ALL scout activites. Cut and dried.

That said...My opinion is that,Yes there is an "Activity Uniform" that is something other than the Khaki Shirt and Olive pants. And as a uniform, scouts wearing it are allowed to salute.

Now, custom Troop T shirts....Those are not addressed and I think can rightfully be concidered Non-Uniform attire.

I haven't got an eleventh edition handy....Anybody care to tell me what it says?

Sylvar

My gut says no on this one. Seems that if that counted, then you could go watch the third graders play kick ball at recess and count it.

But you may hear different opinoin from others.

Sylvar