starwolfmom

I've seen that recipe, too, except with a tortilla for the base instead of a napkin. That way, it's completely edible!

Elizabeth

jd--Sounds like you belonged to MY sons' pack! Except for the pinewood derby item, the list you made would describe our pack.

I wanted to attend our next committee meeting (all the den leaders and the CM, who is also the CC), but it's the same night as my big boy's Court of Honor, and he's getting Life that night.

Guess I'll shoot for the april committee meeting instead.

Elizabeth

I wish our pack used the program helps, but any observer to our program would think that there was no such thing.

Our pack meetings have no theme, and there are almost never any songs or skits done by dens at the pack meetings. It's kind of pitiful, really.

When my older boy was in this pack, I didn't know anything about the resources available to Scouters; once I joined his troop committee after he crossed over and began getting Scouting magazine, I saw the wealth of resources available, and it frustrates me that our pack doesn't care to take advantage of them.

Elizabeth

In our pack, the Web 2's get a shadow box with all of the badges, arrow points, belt loops and patches they have earned in their Cub Scouting career displayed. The bottom of the frame has two hooks which hold their arrow from their Arrow of Light ceremony.

My oldest son, now a Life Scout and freshman in high school, still has his shadow box on his bedroom wall. Just the other day, he and another boy from our pack (he and this boy are now SLP and ASPL of our troop) were reminiscing about their crossover and how both of them LOVE their shadow boxes.

Elizabeth

I'm sad for you, too. I'm in the Lansing, Michigan council (Chief Okemos Council), and I've never heard of Lost Lake. We usually go to the Northwoods Scout Reservation near Lupton, Michigan.

Elizabeth

The program for last night's B&G listed the pack's committee members. It consists of cubmaster, assistant cubmaster (who is the dad of a boy who crossed over last night), awards chair, popcorn kernel (the CM's father-in-law), treasurer (who is also the Bears den leader), Tiger cub coach, and the wolf, bear, Web 1, and Web 2 den leaders. (We only have one of each den)

There is no COR listed, although my son's den leader (and treasurer) told me that the Web 2's den leader was the COR. Since her group crossed over and she announced that she is done now, I wonder if she will continue to be the COR? There is no committee chair separate from the Cubmaster.

Another mom in our den is also interested in improving the program. I think we're going to attend the next committee meeting and offer to help.

On a related note about how this pack frustrates me, our next pack meeting is at a bowling alley on a Sunday morning at 10 a.m. (only time we could get because of league play). Excuse me? How about "duty to God"? My family goes to church and Sunday school on Sunday morning, and there is NO WAY that my son is going to go bowling instead of attending Mass. I know that we're chartered to a public elementary school and not a church, but many of the families in our pack are practicing members of their religion, and I can't imagine that bowling on Sunday morning is a good idea for them either.

I'm going to go and primal scream now, and then go sign up for cub-specific training (since I already have Boy Scout-specific training).

Elizabeth

johndaigler inquired if my pack has any of the following:

Pack trainer, Webelos-Scout liaison, activities chair, camping-outdoor activities chair.

No, no, no, and no. Our pack has never gone camping as a pack (not even when my now-Life Scout was a cubbie). The den leader of the Bears got her den (which my younger son has been in since Tigers) interested in Cub Scout Day Camp, but we have get to get anyone else interested in going. When our council had a Cub Scout Healthy Hike in the fall, more than 1,000 cubs participated, but not us. Scout day at the ballpark? No, unless you want to go as an individual, but where's the fun in that? I'll fall off my chair tonight if our Blue and Gold has a 75th anniversary theme. So far, the 75th anniversary of Cub Scouts has never been mentioned in our pack.

As for a Webelos-Scout liaison, I may fit that role, but only because I'm the membership coordinator for my older son's troop, and I've been trying to facilitate greater interaction between his troop and my younger son's pack. The second year Webelos haven't had anything to do with us (the Webelos 2 den leader blows off every invitation we've ever made to her), but I have hope because the Webelos 1 den has accepted every invitation--so we have them in our sights for NEXT year.

I plan to go to the next committee meeting (some time in March) and express my desire to help the pack "be all it can be." I know a couple of other parents have expressed quietly their disappointment with the pack--maybe I can get them to attend with me. I don't want to bash anybody--I just want my younger son to have a good experience.

Elizabeth

In several threads having to do with pack discord (notably the one about the do-nothing cubmaster) people have suggested going to the committee chair.

Well, in our pack the committee consists of the cubmaster and den leaders, and one or two other people. The CM is the committee chair, the Bears den leader is the treasurer, the WEbelos 2 leader is the COR.

I'm sure that this is not kosher, but I'm not Cub Scout trainer (I'm trained as a Boy Scout committee member).

We don't even publish when committee meetings are held. I had to get the information from my son's den leader, because I'd really like to approach the committee and ask some questions and make some suggestions about improving the pack.

What does one do in a situation like this?

Elizabeth

What anarchist's troop does sounds similar to what our troop does. Our Scoutmaster and several boys (always including the SPL and ASPL) wait on the other side of the bridge to receive the Webelo who is crossing over. He is then surrounded by the Boy Scouts, who take off his blue loops, put on the red loops, take off his plaid neckerchief and put on his new red neckerchief, and give him his book. The new Boy Scout then stands with the troop members until all of the Webelos have crossed and been transformed into their new accessories.

Elizabeth

Thanks, everyone, for your replies.

Someone asked how we keep order in our pack. Our (now former) Cubmaster was a start on time, end on time kind of guy who brooked no nonsense. At our blue-and-gold, once people were eating, he did the lower dens' awards. Things kept moving and by the time dinner was over, everyone had their awards except the second-year Webelos. Then all attention was turned to the AOL and crossover ceremony. Only after that was completed did we have the entertainment portion of the program. So . . . everyone stuck around, and everyone paid attention.

On Thursday, my younger son's pack will be having its first B&G under our new Cubmaster. I am almost dreading it, because I've seen this guy in action and so far this year, I haven't been real thrilled with his leadership. Older son won't be at his brother's B&G--he'll be at another pack, doing another OA ceremony crossover.

Elizabeth

Last Saturday, my oldest son participated in his first crossover as a member of a newly-formed OA ceremonies team. This was the team's first crossover, and they were missing two boys (down with the flu), so two of the boys were doing multiple parts.

I was so proud of the boys. They did their parts beautifully (for their first time) and imparted the right degree of solemnity to the pack's crossover at their Blue and Gold banquet.

My vent? The behavior of many of the Cub Scouts at this pack event. Sure, it was the end of the evening, but I know that in my younger son's pack, behavior such as I witnessed would not be permitted or tolerated. Boys wandered in and out of the cafeteria; others ran around the pillars; others played with the 75th anniversary balloons that decorated the tables. I felt so bad for the second-year Webelos who were crossing over--all eyes should have been on them as they crossed the bridge to Boy Scouting, but many of their pack-mates ignored them, and also made it difficult for those who wanted to watch the ceremony to pay attention. (Of course, I also felt bad for the ceremonies team, who were trying to project and speak their lines over the many distractions.)

I don't know that anything can be done--I don't know the cubmaster of this pack at all, and it will be a whole year until this occasion comes around again. But should I have said something to him about the actions of his Scouts? If they are this unruly at a solemn event like a crossover, what must they be like at other times?

Guess I don't really need an answer--I just wanted to share my experience, and maybe encourage other leaders to perhaps prep their boys in the proper way to act during Scouting ceremonies.

Elizabeth

These posts took me back several years to when my now-Life Scout was in third grade, working on his Bear badge. Always indolent by nature, he was not working on his achievements at home (despite my encouragement and offers of help), and his cohorts in the den were. It was the den leader's hope to give all of the boys their Bear badge at the B&G, but he wasn't going to force it down their throats.

Well, the big night came, and Matt had NOT completed all of his requirements. Seven little boys were called up to the stage and received their Bear badges, while one little boy sat with mom and dad and watched. Did he feel bad? You bet he did. Did he get off his duff and start working on achievements the next day? Absolutely! And at the March pack meeting, he got his Bear badge.

I am very glad that the den leader did not "hold back" those seven boys in order to have the entire den receive their badges at the same time. In the same way, your son should not be held back because his den mates are not as diligent as he is.

Elizabeth

In addition to being the mom of a Boy Scout and a Cub Scout, and a non-Scout with Asperger's Syndrome (high-functioning autism), I'm also a freelance writer. I've done a couple of short pieces for Boys' Life, and just got my first assignment from Scouting magazine--an article on how leaders and parents can work together to help boys with Asperger's Syndrome or autism spectrum disorders to have a successful experience in Scouting.

If you are the parent of a Scout with AS or autism (either Cub Scout or Boy Scout) or a leader who has worked with Scouts on the autism spectrum, and you feel you would like to share information with me on this subject (either for background, or as someone to be featured in the article) I'd love to hear from you, either on the forum or off-list (at JAYANDE@aol.com). My deadline is April 1, so I'd like to get my interviews completed by mid-March.

Thanks so much.

Elizabeth

I know that my older son (now a Life Scout) has kept all of his neckerchiefs from his Cub Scouting days as a visual reminder of his progress.

In fact, one day when I couldn't find his younger brother's Bear neckerchief, I asked if we could borrow Matt's old Bear neckerchief from his top dresser drawer (where he keeps all his Scout stuff), and he looked stricken--as if I'd asked to borrow the crown jewels. NO WAY was he going to let his irresponsible little brother wear his Bear neckerchief!

Eventually we found Greg's neckerchief, but I learned that you don't mess with Matt's stash of Scouting stuff--that's his personal timeline of his Scouting career and it means too much to him to share.

Elizabeth

My son, who is a Bear this year, made most of his own car, with just a little help from dad with the power tools.

When we got to the race, we saw lots of really spiffy looking cars--almost professional, really. But Greg's car got a lot of attention from the adults. "Did you make this?" "Are these the weights?" "Wow, that's some car." It was chunky and clunky compared to some of the other cars, painted in our school colors, and he loved it.

The car lost all of its races--by a large margin. Then came the "special" awards. Most Original, Best Paint Job, and "Judge's Choice." My son was the winner of this last award. He was elated! After the event, I went up to one of the leaders and asked, "What does Judge's Choice mean?" He replied, "It's the car that actually looks like a kid built it and not the dad."

I think that's the best prize of all.

Elizabeth

I have been less than happy with my younger son's pack this year, under a new Cubmaster who came in last March, after the CM for the previous 7 years left when his last son crossed over.

I've been trying to be charitable, trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, sure that I would get used to the new man's way of doing things.

Then . . . at last week's meeting (a Christmas caroling practice for tomorrow's pack meeting), he really got my goat. The man has a whistle--like a coach or referee would use--that he blasts to get the boys' attention!

EXCUUUSE ME! Whatever happened to the Scout sign? I'm certain our boys are so unruly that he has to resort to this ear-shattered solution to obtaining order!

Am I just overly sensitive, or do I have a valid gripe?

Elizabeth

P.S. I'm not the only disgruntled parent. At our last pack meeting (held at a laser tag emporium, despite my pointing out that it violated the GTSS) at least two other parents commented to me that "this isn't like my friend's son's pack is run," and "this isn't anything like the packs we had in West Virginia." One parent was miffed that our pack didn't participate in the district's Cub Scout Healthy Hike, or even mention that it was happening. I was appalled that the American flag was propped up in a corner during the meeting (there was no flag ceremony, so I don't know what it was even brought along).

Thanks, all. Glad to know she's not violating the letter of the law. I think it would still be a good idea to have more than one adult at the den meetings, but I won't get on her case about it.

Thanks. Elizabeth

Yesterday, my younger son had his first Bear den meeting after school. I work full-time, so the deal was that he would go to his den meeting (right there in the school) and when the den meeting was over, his leader would deliver him to the after-school child care program (in another part of the building). This was fine with me--one less meeting to get a kid to at night (I've got four kids, so we're go-go-going all the time).

When I picked my son up at 5:30, I asked how the den meeting went. Fine. Who was there? He named 5 or 6 boys. Who was there for adults? Mrs. Den Leader, he said. And who else? I prompted. Nobody else, just Mrs. Den Leader.

So--alarm bells are going off in my head. What about two-deep leadership? I know that the moms (and in at least one case, the dad) of some of the boys in the den are stay at home parents whom the den leader could have recruited to help out with the meeting. I'm wondering if someone bailed on her, or if she just didn't think it was important.

I trust this woman with my son. She's been his den leader since the boys were Tigers. But the point remains that she was violating well-established BSA procedures that are set up for the benefit of both boys and leaders.

Do I call her on it? Do I try and casually bring up the issue? This would be the second safe Scouting issue I will have brought up in a week. Maybe I should find out when the next committee meting is and bring up my concerns. I'm not sure if it's a matter of "don't know" or "dont' care" about the rules. I hate looking like I'm cracking the whip, but I'm a stickler for following the rules.

Any ideas for approaching this diplomatically?

Elizabeth

Our troop had been one of those that didn't meet officially in the summer. We had summer camp in late June, Governor's Honor Guard at Mackinac Island in July, nothing in August, then tried to gear back up in September.

This year, though, we decided to change that. While we didn't have weekly troop meetings, we had at least two activities planned in June, July, and August, in addition to our regular camping. And you know what? It's been our best year ever--the boys are active and enthusiastic, they've bonded closer together, and are really excited about Scouting. It was the best move we've ever made.

As for our pack, it's strictly a September-June affair. And the dens meet on whatever schedule they want. And almost no one does any of the extra summer activities offered by the council--more's the pity, because our den (the only one to attend day camp) has such a great time.

Elizabeth

She didn't call it a "tour permit," but I'm guessing that's what it was. She doesn't have it back signed yet. I think it was getting passed along up whatever channels they have there at the council office, but no one had contacted her to tell her 'no way' yet. and I don't know if it said "Laser Tag," or "Zap Zone" (the name of the place) on it. Maybe the guys at the council office don't know that Zap Zone is a laser tag joint?

Elizabeth

Well, I ended up talking to my son's den leader (who is also our pack treasurer and the cubmaster's right hand). I told her about the laser tag being against regs for safe scouting and let her know that I didn't want us to get into any trouble.

She didn't know that it was against the rules. In fact, she had submitted our game plan to the DE (or somebody at the council office) more than a week ago, and hadn't heard anything from him to the effect that we couldn't do it. She plans to give him a call today to check. (Of course, our council office is already under the watchful eye of national for not doing several things "by the books," so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they were lackadaisical about safe scouting regs).

Elizabeth

Thank you all for your quick response. I guess I'll be making an unpopular phone call to our Cubmaster this evening.

Elizabeth

Our November pack meeting is scheduled to be an evening of laser tag at a local laser tag emporium. The boys, of course, are thrilled at this idea.

However, in the back of my mind, I seem to recall that BSA doesn't allow for official troop/pack activities that involve "gun play," except in the case of supervised target shooting. I know that my older son's troop nixed the PLC's idea for a laser tag outing--saying that the boys could get together on their own, outside of Scouts, to play, but that it couldn't be a troop-sanctioned event.

Does anyone know chapter and verse on this issue? I don't want to be a party-pooper, but I don't want the pack to get in trouble for hosting an event that's "illegal" by BSA standards, either.

Thanks. Elizabeth

My son would LOVE this option. He practically lives in his convertible jeans, especially in a Michigan autumn, when he rides his bike to school in 40 degree weather and comes home in 70 degree weather.

And it would sure beat having to have both long and short Scout pants.

Count me in!

Elizabeth

Thanks for all the suggestions and empathy. When I did the flyers, I gave each Webelos leader enough flyers to give one to each of her boys--they obviously didn't share them with their kids. On the plus side, three Webelos 1's and their leader did attend the fall camporee and have lunch with our boys and I think they had fun.

I'll try the personal invitations for our next event (neither den has a den chief, but I'll send my son--our ASPL and a "graduate" of this pack).

As for the pack itself, they don't really do much "by the book," even under the cubmaster before this one. Program helps? Themes? Nope. Our "committee" is a joke. The committee chair is the Webelos 2 den leader, the treasurer is the Bear den leader, and the rest of the committee consists of the cubmaster, two assistant cubmasters, popcorn kernel (who is the cubmaster's FIL), and awards chairperson. I don't even KNOW who our COR is--and I've been part of this pack for 9 years.

My younger son is in the Bear den, and while I like his den leader very much, even she tries to get by with as little as possible. Weekly den meetings? Nope. She shoots for one den meeting, one activity, and the pack meeting each month. I'm almost scared to suggest that while this worked when our lads were Tigers, they need to meet more frequently now that they're older in order to accomplish all that they need to do to achieve rank.

The council is hosting a "cub Scout Healthy Hike" in a couple of weeks. I've read about it in the council newsletter, on the council web site, but have I heard about it from the pack? NO. I have a feeling we're not signed up for it. More's the pity--I think the kids would have a blast. Maybe just our den could do it--our den was the only one that participated in Cub Scout Day Camp the past two summers, too. It's just a shame that so many of our boys aren't getting the "full" Scout experience.

Elizabeth