SPL1Warwick

Beavah, i think that a great story and i think it was haddled very well. i think thats what needs to be done!

nolesrule, i get what your saying and to a degree i agree but if i was the SM or CC or on his EBOR then he would have to work his Butt off to earn that eagle rank because that is somthing that i also wear on my uniform and i am proud of it. It makes me proud to hear about the good that eagle scouts are doing in the world. But on the other hand it makes me sickening to know that there are scouts out there that are just wearing the pin and not realizing what it really means. I get that kids make mistakes and this is a mistake that he needs to learn from and i beleive that scouting will set him on the right track. But he should not get his eagle untill he proves that he was in the wrong and that he will make up for it and make a difference so that no other scout makes the same mistakes.

Eagle, and i get that and he has every right to a fair trial as outlined in our legal government but we are not talking about somthing that the legal system has control over. Does he deserve his rank of eagle? And people are saying that a judge needs to find him guilty in order for actions to take place in the BSA. I will bet my life that that judge finds him guilty because they have solid evidence......the police report that states him blood alcholo level! Why does it need to go through our legal system in order for this crime that THIS KID DID COMMIT to be taken seriously!?

Everyone is talking about this young man being innocent or guilty and that nothing should be done untill he is proven guilty..... "Innocent untill Proven Guilty" Yeah i get it but cmon, He was driving under the influence. He was pulled over and his blood alchohol level was taken and it was above the legal limit.. (which in the state of Rhode Island is .002) He is guilty if he has more in alcohol in his system then that. I dont get why it needs to go to a judge in order for him to be known as a drunk driver or an intoxicated at that! He was drinking and then he was driving and THAT IS ILLEGAL MY FRIENDS no madder what you guys say! He had a choice and he made the wrong one and he could've KILLED someone because of it. Weather or not the judge finds him guilty (Which the judge should and will) doesnt make it okay for the BSA unit to give him a slap on the wrist and tell hims its okay because its NOT! I am 16-years old and i went through Drivers-ed and the one thing them slam into your head is DONT DRINK and DRIVE! and there 5,000 different media ways that he knew that it was wrong and he did it anyway! So in my eyes, BSA shouldnt allow him his eagle untill further notice or until he proves that he learned that what he did was wrong....Which it was......Found guilty or innocent!

PS Proud Eagle

Disiplining a child in a violent manor is never okay, take it from somone that was abuse as a child. And calling child services on an ABUSIVE Parent is not unjustified.......their a a good citizen for standing up for a child that can not!

Okay, one of the requirments to be signed off prior to the EBOR is "Live the Scout Oath and Law in Your Daily Life"...Or somthing to that effect. And To be honest getting a DUI is not completing that requirment therefore the SM can withhold that advancement until he proves that he has learned from his mistake. But thats just me... the SM needs to step in before it gets to the eagle board because no madder who you speak to wether or not how far up in the chain of command they are... the all will agree that there is NOTHING SCOUT LIKE ABOUT GETTING A DUI! Personally this scout should be de-ranked to Tenderfoot but i know we cant do that so thats not an option. Im not saying that this scout should never get the rank of eagle. Not at all. People make mistakes, but he needs to learn from it. Maybe make him, if he hasnt done his eagle project yet, do it regarding drinking or driving or maybe just a service project in general. Bottom line is, this is somthing that his youth and adult leaders NEED to step in and mentor him in realizing and making good with his mistakes. Hope this helps!

SPL1Warwick

Abel.... i am SPL, i am an eagle scout and yes he did get approval before he started, but i dont think it dawned on anyone who signed off. Idk maybe you guys are right its the EBOR to decide but at the same time they are asking for SM approval. We'll see what happens!

Now thats an Eagle Project! But yes i tottally agree, it depends on the project and it depends on their role.

Eagle732, i agree that the SM should be allowed to be able to have a say which now that i think back all four signatures must be obtained at the end saying that they planned and carryied out the project. And i think everyone has the wrong idea, he thought that he was going to have more scouts show up....thats why it was approved. but it didnt turn out like that. He had his mom (CC) his dad (SM) one scout and a personal friend. They baked bread, they measured mixed baked and packaged the bread. I personally think that this is not acceptable...soley on the thought that he only provided leadership to 2 people. Considering that the adults were just there for health and safety. But i wasnt there i dont doubt that the adults steped in and took over. I dont doubt it at all.... but i wasnt there. Thats another question..... Should adult leaders be able to participate in an eagle project?

I completely understand that it is not my place to judge the quality of an eagle project. I just wanted the imput of others. and no his paper work has not been completed yet nor is he close to a board because he has a couple of more merit badges to do. I just feel as though he is doing the least amount of work possible for an eagle project. I wasnt there the day of the project cause i was camping with my troop so i cant tell you how his leadership was like but i can tell you from troop leadership, he doesnt take inititive. But i guess you guys are right, that only 2 others scouts are fine for an eagle project but it just doesnt seem that you are demonstrating leadership with just 2 people.

well doesnt tht defeat the purpose of an eagle project. A "Leadership Project", to show leadership, and i only imagine that they should be scouts. but the project was to bake bread for the homeless around thanksgiving time. and yes i beleive there were adults there, but i beleive that the adults should not help in an project because they have a tendency of stepping up and leading it expessially because this was the SM son.

Total there was 3 youth there. The eagle canidate, one scout and a friend. So he was only leading 2 people. There reason the rest of the troop wasnt there was because we were camping which the canidate knew ahead of time that we were camping that weekend. His original plan was that he would have some kids just stay back from camping. and only one stayed back. As far as his efforts to get people involved, because we were camping there wasnt much effort. but the thing is.... he knew that we were camping and why did he have to have it the same weekend. Our camping trip was scheduled first so he knew about it. Keep in mind that this scout threw this entire project in about 3 weeks from start to finish. Let me know what you think!

Would you count an eagle project an eagle project if a eagle canidate only lead ONE scout in his eagle project? Can anyone find any Offical liturature saying that there should be more or if that enough! Thanks for the Help

SPL1Warwick

'77, i tottally disagree. If a SM becomes a SM for the right reasons, then that scoutmaster would want anything that the scouts beleive that would enrich their scouting experience. In my opinion a SM is there to make sure that the scouts program is not unhealthy nor unsafe, and because Ramen noodles are not unsafe nor unhealthy (For a lunch on one campout once a month) then the SM has no place in placing a ban in territory that he is oversteping his boundries on

SPL1Warwick

Gary Miller.... I cant agree more with you! It is not the job of the adult leaders to ban items. It is infact the youth. Im sure BSA has wanted to ban ipods and laptops and pop tarts but they relize that this is a YOUTH LEAD ORGANIZATION. Take that for what its worth. Contrary to popular beleif, the adult does not have the power to tell scouts what they can and cant do...(Within health and safety concerns). I dont see why the adults care, let them have fun and they will make mistakes and they will learn from them! I PROMISE!

PS i love poptarts the cinnimon and sugar ones are the best

Make sure failure is painful.... isnt that a lil harsh?

How do i get youth leaders to "take charge", and do somthing with their Leadership position? My PL looks to me for answers on little things, that he can answer himself. I need him and other youth leaders to relize that they need to think for themselves somtimes, how do i get them to think for themselves?

SPL1Warwick

Thanks everyone for great advice, i am having a PLC tomorrow and will be addressing the issue politly to my SM. Wish me Luck!!!!

great advice ASM! I am having a PLC tomorrow and i will hint on the topic though my SM is not going to be there. but i will sit down with him

Good Advice! I will talk to him and let him know and maybe give him the hypothetical situation that you gave me. I never intended to go and talk to anyone but my SM unless he forced the adult lead troop. As a SPL it is partically my job to make sure that the boys lead boys under the GUIDENCE of adults. If my SM wants to give me advice then i am all for that but when he jumps in and starts yelling out commands to the scouts of my troop then i think that defeats the purpose of a boy lead patrol. Again, i never attended to go to district or commitee unless nessaserry. I want a possitive experience from scouting and i want all the boys to learn leadership that i learned. And one of the best leadership qualities i have picked up is never backing down on an issue that i feel passionate about. I want my troop to get to a boy lead troop and that is where we are going to get. I get that leadership trait from my mother

Okay, i will have a meeting with the SM and ASM's. I will talk to them about my vision with the troop and ask them their. I will propose what i think the troop should be ran like and when they should and shouldnt step in. If we are still disagreeing what do i do then?

Scoutnut- really so the attitude of a scoutmaster should not be brought up to the district or the commitee.... cause i am POSSITIVE that that behavior is UNEXCEPTABLE in the Boy Scouts of America. I disagree, the SM being totally inaproppriate at summercamp is my job. In the SPL handbook it reads "Adults are respossible to to provide leadership to a BOY RUN TROOP. Rely on the SM to coach you from the sidelines and to give you plenty of space to step before the troop and to provide the active leadership the scouts expect from you" pg 12. Again this is not a one time thing, the uniform inspection was just an example. I do have the right to bring forth a complaint to district or my unit commitee.... Dont tell me otherwise! Now i dont want it to get that far, i am not the SPL that will just sit back and allow a SM to run a troop through me. Yes the adult is there to guide. Where is the guidence in telling boys what to do and jumping in and doing a scouts job. Where is it written that i cant go to district or to my unit commitee?

Moosetracker,....

This uniform thing was just an example, not the only thing. Please dont pay attention to the uniform part of the story but to the adult steping on the youth leaders toes. If the sm keeps doing this the scouts will go to the SM with questions. that is my problem not the uniform... heck when he calls a uniform inspection thats less for me to do..... Moosetracker how did you know i was an eagle scout?

Eagle92,.... my SM is trained as far as i know. My troop is 1 patrol, 10 boys. A small troop so somtimes the "Patrol Method" doesnt go smoothly but thats the learning experience right...? With the adults steping in every little thing that starts to go wrong doesnt allow for me or other youth leaders to learn from their mistakes. So my question is...... What should i do when the scoutmaster or any other youth leader is overstepping his or her boundries....? I mean on the spot, should i give them a look, or pull them off to the side and talk to the? I need somthing that will allow them to relize that their actions are not complying with a boy lead patrol and that they need to take a step back and allow the boys to run the show. What should i do? Any SPL points of views out there?

If another situation pops up where he is overstepping his boundries how should i go about letting him know that he needs to take a step back?

I didnt know that Eagle92, thank you maybe my patrols can do more things without adults

I understand your point of view to an extent, but wether or not the scouts uniforms were messed up, was it appropriate for the sm to call a unifrom inspection, without talking to his youth leaders?