SMEagle819

I read this post with interest, and read many intriguing ideas.

My council is requiring all new adult applications that are submitted must not only have the YPT certificte with it, but also the training completed for the position the adult is applying for. So, if you have someone who wants to be an ASM, they must have taken and completed IOLS and Fast Start before they even turn the paperwork in. I find it very interesting that these must be complete even before the adult leader is allowed to join, and not have that adult come in, see if they want to do it, before spending the money and time for training. Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-training, but I think this mandatory requirement before even being allowed to join is impacting our numbers here.

Speaking about long tenured adults, one of the committee members sat down at lst week's meeting and opened the conversaion up by saying, "Do you realize it as been 15 years since you became Scoutmaster?" I thought for a minute, and realized, that, yes, it has been 15 years; 15 years that have flown by. By the way, the committee member that told me this was the man that was Scoutmaster before I took the position, and he had been SM for 25 years! There are some of us that feel the obligation to stay around, and teach the scouts the skills necessary to be outdoors and a good citizen.

Thanks for all of the responses.

Yes, we are trying to change the culture of the troop, so we are having some pains. I will get with the SPL next meeting to discuss the ideas.

Received an angry email from a parent, and am having trouble coming up with a response.

The backstory:

This past weekend, the troop went camping. We had 13 boys go out Friday night, with 2 more joining us on Saturday afternoon (they went to a merit badge class during the day). On Sunday, parent of one the the scouts that came out Saturday shows up approximately 9 am. They were there to pick up little Jimmy. However, little Jimmy is the QM for the troop, and we were no where near being ready to leave. Also, we thought we would need assistance getting everyone home with the 2 late arrivals from Saturday. The adult leaders told the parent that we were not finished cleaning up and packing, but may need parent to stick around to help transport. Parent then says that he has an appointment at 11am, and needs to get home. He will take little Jimmy, and a couple of others early to help with driving. In the hustle and bustle of cleaning up, 2 additional scouts came by and said they were leaving with parent and little Jimmy. Now, mind you, I should have stopped what I was doing, thought a little bit, and said to them that no ones leaves until we are finished with clean up and pack up. But, I didn't, and they were gone. About 45 minutes later, another adult asks where one of the scouts that left is, and one of the nearby scouts said he left. Remeber, that little Jimmy is the troop QM, and now I realize that the 2 scouts that left were patrol leaders for the patrols that were there. This one of the ASMs to call the parent who left, and parents of the PLs who left to find out why they left, and if they will come assist when we return. I did not hear the answers to that question, but had a brief chat with the ASMs and decided to have a clean up night at Monday's meeting, rather than going to a local establishment for game night (which was listed on the calendar).

I did not send out any reminder emails before Monday's meeting about the change in plans. So, when it was found out that plans were changed, some of the scouts expressed their displeasure, but then went about the clean up task without further complaint.

Needless to say, the irate email I received was about the change of plans without notification. I would like some suggestions on a response, as I am having difficulty coming up with something "PC" to say. I do admit that I was wrong, and should have sent an email regarding change of plans, and yes that will be worked into my response as well.

Let me know what you think...

Here an interesting response to a question I sent to our DC. In our Council newsletter, sent electronically via email, there is a place for each district to have news and announcements. In my district's section, the was an announcment that if you did not pick up your planning packet at a large meeting in June, your UC has it. Considering we lost our last UC due to medical reasons, I haven't seen or heard from one in almost 2 years. The previous UC was good; he would come by almost every month, talking to the adlt leaders, and observing quietly in the back of the meeting hall. I can honestly say he was what I believe what a UC should be; a "friend to the unit."

Anyway, I sent an email to our DC, and actually received a quick response. Here it is:

Mr. SMEagle819,

Sorry to hear that you have not had contact with a Commissioner in 2 years. Mr. UC-4-YOUR-UNIT is your Commissioner at this time and his phone number is 555-1234. He picked up his assigned Units packets last week. Please give him a call and leave him your contact information to call you back to set up a time to get it to you. A phone call will be faster. He does not get a chance to look at e-mail every day. His e-mail address is UC-4-YOUR-UNIT@whatever.com. Let me know if you needed any additional help.

Thanks you for Supporting Scouting,

District Commissioner

I wonder if this new person will respond as quickly as the DC....

I'll keep the group updated.

Here is my "interpretation" (uh-oh, someone interpreting the forms for their own good) of the Tour Plan:

1. Only need 1 registered leader present at all times that has YPT training; this means you could have 1 trained leader, and a few parents who are not registered go on your trip. However, a parent can take YPT and not be registered as well.

2. Only need 1 person on the trip with the Weather training. Looking right at the form, it does not state "registered leader" for this training. Again, a parent who is not registered can take this.

3. Only have to be trained in Safe Swim/Safety Afloat if you are doing those activities on your trip.

I will give you an example: we just went on a short hiking trip with 16 scouts. However, only 3 adults could go; 2 parents, and me, trained SM. To the letter of the plan, we were covered because there was one registered adult with YPT and weather training, along with 2 other adults. The 2 parents do have scout volunteer experience; 1 was a CM until his youngest boy moved up in February, and the other parent was an ASM at his son's previous troop, but his job (due to travel) is unable to be a "full time" ASM with us. Both of these parents are not registered with the troop, but have some scouting experience. This is slightly differnet than your situation, but is sounds like your adult that went on your trip are registered with your troop. In my "interpretation" of the form, one does not need to have IOLS in order to be the leader or go on a trip with the Boy Scouts.

Thanks, UC. If only it was presented in that manner, meaning that in the training for recharter, and some notes, emails, flyers that come out around recharter time, if it isn't in, your unit will be dropped. I have no problem with getting the paperwork on time, and I have no problem with the people who volunteer extra time when the physical paperwork (the ones with the signatures) are turnedin. The only issue I have is the amount of time it takes to get the "paperwork" back (meaning memebrship cards and hard copy of the charter).

BTW, I just checked the Internet Advancement page since I had some to enetr. It shows updated now. However, our XO (Reverend of the COR) has been replaced by our COR. Now our XO & COR are the same person.....

Much like 5year, I "check" the status on the Internet Advancement website when I go in there to enter ranks, MBs, etc. It would show those that did not wish to stay involved if the recharter has been processed by the council.

What I understand about the process, if you have your paperwork in before the expiration date, the unit is OK, even if the recharter is not "complete" in the system. But, I do get asked every once in a while by the scouts (and some adults) where the new membership cards are.....and yes, many of them promptly go thru the wash!

My council has been using the internet rechartering for approximately 4 years. We turn the paperwork portion in in December; we are lucky to see membership cards and other info by April. I can only imagine it will be longer this year with the YPT requirement added for adults.

I get somewhat frustrated when the units are doing most of the work by using the internet recharter; how can it take so long for them to be processed?

I'm with you Abel....

We had a really active one the past couple of years; he would show up at meetings at least once a month, talk about upcoming events, pass on info not picked up at RT, etc. This was the first UC that I considered "a friend of the unit" since taking over as SM in 1997. Before him, we might get a visit once a year, never really knowing who that person was, and that was for Friends of Scouting. This put a bad taste in many of the leaders mouths about only seeing district people when they wanted money.

Unfortunately, our very active UC had to step aside due to medical reasons. I haven't seen or heard from the new one since the previous one stepped down in late October, 2010. To be honest, I really don't know who are new one is...maybe I need to go have a cup of coffee with the DC to find out what's happenin'.....

Saw a report on this morning's new about the GSA cookies. GSA is reducing the types of cookies to 6 kinds this year, all best sellers. The report also stated that the cookie sale is a $700 million profit for the GSA. While I realize this is put on by their national office, does anyone have any idea what the BSA popcorn brings in?

I agree that the BSA has priced themselves out of the market with the popcorn. Smaller, cheaper packages would se1l much better than the $15 boxes and $50 tins. We are not participating in the sale due to the expense and headache of paperwork, picking the product up, and the time of year it is sold (in the fall when all of the schools are doing fundraisers).

Well, I just turned in 3 "old" Tour Permits for our trips for the next 3 months, and nothing was said to me that the incorrect form was used. I followed something that was just struck down by the Supreme Court, "DA,DT".....

Part C can be found by following RichardB's link.

I'm wondering if National is reworking Part C to make them valid for 3 years (36 months) for those 40 and under, like the old version? I know that parents would appreciate it, as well as the scouters that fall in the 18-40 threshold. However, that doesn't apply to me anymore....

I really like the turn this discussion has taken...

Like HICO, I will let my experience speak for my dedication to scouting. I once wanted to take WB when I was younger (early '90s), but did not take the opportunity. Wish I would have taken it back then, being a young adult. Now, with many more years under my belt, and "management training" courses taken thru work, I don't think I would enjoy the WB21. Also, like some of the others, it seems like the course offered in my area is staffed/run by the "good old boy" network (even though I am now "old," but maybe not a good old boy?), with the people who have either taken it or staff it seem to be cliquish. Taking another week vacation for scouting would not sit well with the better half, either.

I enjoy what I am doing, and interacting with the kids. Not sure how much better taking WB would make scouting for me at the present time. However, I going to keep an open mind about it....

Eagle92,

Sorry, but I will still have an active registered Eagle Scout sit an an EBOR if he is available and in the "dead zone" range of 18-21. The way I have been doing it is having 3 committee members plus the young adult Eagle, thus creating a full board plus 1. This is why I do not agree with national that young adults can only be registered as ASMs.

Like Eagle92, I also grew up during the '80s, and can recall scouts sitting on BORs. Looking back in my Scout Handbook (yes, I still have it), the "Scoutmaster's Conference" was called "Personal Growth Agreement Conference."

Now that I am an SM, I still have older, "higher ranking" scouts sit in on BORs. Not all of the time, but most of the time. It gives the older, more expexperience scout a view from the other side, and lets them interact on a different level with the scouts that are being reviewed.

Also, I have had young adult (18 +) Eagle Scouts sit on an EBOR. Actually had one sit on a board back in August. He gave a different perspective to the adults sitting on the board, as he had earned his Eagle last September (this Eagle was 19 at the time he sat on the board). He asked some good questions, and was very supportive of the eagle candidate. IMHO, I believe that a young person 18 years or older should be eligible to be classified as a commitee member if they so desire.

Having the boys, especially those of higher rank and leadership positions, sit on BORs are definitely an asset to the process. We have "buy-ins" from the committee and CO to continue to operate this way, so I'm going to keep running with it.

It was presented at our District Roundtable this past Thursday. I was already aware of it from some other things I had read (can't remember where) and when I was messing around in MyScouting.org for training. I have updated our pin on the map, and like some other posters, many others have not been updated. I like the idea...it even has a function that can tell you how many requests for info you have had about your "pin," and if those requests have been followed up on.

I've been wondering about this ever since my council moved to ScoutNet rechartering...why does it take so long for this to get done when all of the info is already put into the main database for the BSA? My council started this about 5 years ago, and it seems to take much longer to come back than the old pencil and paper method. Don't get me wrong, I like the computerized version better; much cleaner and easier to read than all of the crossouts and adds.

I suspect this process to be even longer this year with the YPT requirement for the adults. Even though this can now be done on-line, and the date of completion put directly into ScoutNet, there is still a disconnect in this sytem. For example, we have just completed our recharter for next year. A report is generated when you are working on this that shows which adults do not have the YPT training complete. Only 4 of our 17 adults showed on this report; at the time the report was run, 10 adults had actually not completed this training. Needless to say, our Training Chair made sure everyone was up to date, and had certificates in hand in case the dates were not kept in the database, and the recharter was kicked back to us.

Question for the campfire: how many of you have done recharter, and seen similar "glitches?"

Thought about taking Woodbadge a couple of times. Once was when I was right out of college, and the troop I was working with wanted me to stay around, take Woodbadge, and one day take over for the Scoutmaster who had been there for 20 plus years. Couldn't find a job there, however, and moved back home. Hooked up with the troop I was in as a boy, signed up as an ASM, abnd started going to "general" training classes. Since I was young (and naive) at the time, I was offering to help with any committee out there on the district level. No wife or kids yet, so I had some time. I was never contacted. Tried to talk to people at Roundtables, saw the beads and neckers, and was more or less ignored. Thought about taking it then, but determined I did not want to become "one of them," my focus was on the boys (as many have stated here).

Few years later, took over as SM of the troop I grew up in. Replaced my SM, who had over 25 years service as SM. He's still around today; much better resource than some of the training I have attended. He passed on to me that the boys in the troop are primary; don't need all the glam and glitz of the knots and awards. The boys still look up to him, and he shares his knowledge freely with them. He is approaching 80, and any time I ask his advice on Woodbadge, he continuously says I don't need it. Right now, I believe him.

Lifetime member of NESA. Per advice from my dad, after I was out of college, and began working, the "automatic" 5 year membership was ending. I asked my dad's advice on joining NESA as a life member. He said: "If you plan on being involved for a long time, or even the rest of you life, join! It will be a benefit to you in the future." So I did, about 20 years ago.

My local council does not have an active chapter. They tried to start a homegrown one, but it seems to have fizzled.

Would love to see it more active, more than just a quarterly magazine. Do agree with most; needs someone on their board to step it up.

I agree wholeheartedly.

So, what happens if we miss the recharted date? Or, don't have everyone trained in YP before recharter? Troop, pack or crew does not get rechartered, and numbers decrease... oops wrong post.

End the end, it is us, the "end user" who suffers from missed deadlines by National, and if we miss one, again, we suffer.

TwoCubDad, been there, done that with the recruiting night. However, your group did better than ours; we had not one boy show up.

We have had luck with the word of mouth. Gained a couple of middle scholl aged boys via friends already in the troop. Also have had transfers from other troops to ours because we were a "better fit."

One thing that may work with the middle school was a lunchtime sign up. The DE (at that time) set it up for our troop to go in and try to recruit. We had about 20 boys express interest, and 4 came to a meeting and joined. One of them went on to earn his Eagle. Not great, but not bad either.

In my honest opinion, there needs to be something put in place that if a boy doesn't like his current troop, that transfer is a viable option. I don't think that is mentioned enough to both the scouts and parents.

We do not scale back for the summer. We continue the weekly meetings, and do summer camp early, and some trips in July and August. We take the week off after summer camp (since we've been together for a week, you do need a break from each other). We understand that people take vacations and such during the summer. However, we give the scouts opportunities during the summertime meetings that you don't get other times during the year: swimming at the local pool, fishing, going to a baseball game, etc. Depending on what the PLC wants to do, we may do a day hike around the city, as the council offers a patch for a trail that has been laid out across the city.

Yes, we have lots of ribbons...so many, that it snapped our troop flag pole at the junction point where one can take the pole apart for travelling purposes.

What we have come up with is putting them on our "award" wall in our scout cabin. The boys like looking though them to see who can find the oldest one (we are a 77 year old troop...have some oldies in there). The QM asked for volunteers to take some home and iron them (some had become wrinkled and/or crushed looking after being stored after the flagpole incident). Many of the readily agrred, and have had them ironed and brought them back. Soon, we will have them on the wall for all to see again.

This has been an issue my troop has dealt with in the past. We have recruited, sponsored the Weblos den at a camporee, held the crossover ceremony, and even designed and made their Arrow of Light plaques,. Somehow, one of the parents convinced all of the other parents (please note I'm using the word parents, not boys) to go to another troop. Our SPL at the time went to the next CS Committee Meeting to find out what happened. He had a list of questions, and not one person could even look this young man in the eye and give an answer. Later on, I heard the reason the group went elsewhere is that we camp too much! I tried to get help from the DE and our UC, but did not get any help, or even feedback, there.

Needless to say, we have used that as a learning tool. We explain to the parents that we go camping once per month (except December due to the holidays, and July because many families go on vacation, and our Summer Camp week is the last week of June), we are boy led (letting the parents know that the PLC plans the destinations, and an adult will assist with any paperwork and/or fees involved), and the scouts advance at their own pace.

Our recruiting efforts are getting better; gained 6 at crossover time this year, with a bigger crop next year. What has also helped is having an active COR, and re-establishing a relationship with the Pack sponsored by our CO. They are appreciative of the help our Den Chiefs provide, and some of the leaders that will cross next year sit in at our monthly Committee Meetings to get a feel for the troop. One piece of advice I can give is continue the positive attitude you have. Do not take it personally, and try to get an adult on the committee to becaome a Recruiting Chair.

Great topic. Thanks for sharing.