SCOUTER-Terry

The responses against Obama are spooky, almost Pavlovian recitations of really, really tired talking points, half truths and outright lies.

The "socialism" thing is a complete canard... as Beaver said, who doesn't support a progressive tax system (where higher earners pay more)? The screams of "redistribution of wealth" may hold a shred of legitimacy if McCain was for a flat tax, but he's not. Is there ANYONE on this board who doesn't support "spreading the wealth around"? Really? Think everyone should pay the same share of road construction, eliminate all social safety nets for poor, elderly or kids? How about funding the military... should we just split the bill equally amongst us?

Obama cuts taxes for 95% of the country (there must be a LOT of wealthy people on this board screaming about how their taxes are going up). As for the highest wage earners, the tax rate is going back to where it was under Clinton, not any higher. The 90's were pretty successful, and revenues to the government were up (largely because high wage earners benefited from a booming economy).

The most likely Supreme Court retirees are Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. All liberal(ish) seats. How exactly will Obama's replacements swing the court so wildly liberal?

The "he lacks experience" argument holds absolutely no credence, if you accept Palin as ready to be President. The Presidency is about the "capital you bring to the job"... it's exhaustive, and there's no opportunity to personally grow or develop more intellectual heft once the job starts. Obama seems to have the intellectual capital today to make reasoned decisions, he executed a miraculous campaign (lest anyone though a black may with a Muslim sounding name would come out of obscurity, beat the vaunted Clinton-machine, and be 24 hours from becoming President?), and seems to take this challenge seriously.

Trying to taint Obama by association (especially Ayres, which is an absurdly tenuous association) is, in my opinion, grasping at straws.

(This message has been edited by scouter-terry)

Editor's Note: These are my thoughts. Just because I'm the site owner, don't hesitate to disagree. ;-) The Republican Party and conservatism shifted radically away from me over the last decade, and John McCain is not the man I believed him to be.

Obama is honest, thoughtful and charismatic. He may also become the most inspirational leader of my lifetime. When America is adrift domestically and abroad, Obama has the best chance of changing our course.

Will someday I develop buyer's remorse? Possibly. Am I aware we're electing a President, not a a savior? Yes, no human could live up to the expectations that are set for Obama, and the task before any President right now is monumental.

Do I like the prospects of a dominant, single party rule in Washington? Nope. Nor do I have much respect for the current Democratic leadership in Congress.

But change must come, now. And I can think of at least ten reasons:

1. More of the same is unthinkable Republicans veered horribly, perhaps irrevocably, off track. The ideals of Goldwater, Buckley and Reagan are long abandoned: less, but good, government... rugged individualism... private liberty for all people... calm, reasoned approach to policy instead of petulance... fiscal conservatism.

This administration instead amassed the largest debt in history and passed along a near impossible burden to future generations of Americans. The crony-laden incompetence of Katrina (and the shame of seeing black, poor Americans suffering through some third-world-like disaster recovery) exposed Republicans as unable -- or unworthy -- to govern.

Today's Republican leadership is little more than jargon and a wistful embrace of ideals they have abandoned time and again. Maverick McCain voted 90% of the time with Bush, and the Republican Party needs to be made accountable.

2. A prudent execution of foreign policy The last eight years has seen a devastating collapse in America's reputation abroad, despite a world united with America after September 11. We've squandered our moral authority with belligerent and ineffective foreign policy and hypocrisy laid bare for the world to see. We institutionalized and sanctioned torture.

We weren't prepared to wage war against a stateless terrorism, and we've done relatively little to adapt. We're closing in on a trillion dollars for an Iraq war where "success" is now defined as getting the sh*t back to shoe level, and we've underfunded the battle in Afghanistan where terrorist networks have reassembled. A Republican administration (which was either lying or incompetent) declared "major combat operations over" in 2003, and set a budget of $60 billion to fund a war. At this rate, assassinating Saddam and bribing every Iraqi $125,000 would have been cheaper and more prudent than a neocon-led strategy.

Obama was right about the Iraq war, and more than 18 months ago called for a refocused effort in Afghanistan. He has realists advising him, and he won't abdicate leadership to a military without clear goals.

3. Thoughtful and powerful oratory matters Words matter. Words can inspire, and rouse others to greatness. Words can break barriers and divisions between people. Words can define how we look at ourselves, and how the world sees us. The American presidency is about leadership not management... Reagan was a great communicator, and through a simple narrative made America a shining city on the hill, reckoned with an evil empire, and challenged the world to freedom.

No politician -- no person -- has delivered a speech that so stirred me, so surprised me, as Barack Obama's speech four years ago at the national convention. I've been a "decided voter" since that night.

Big speeches, impassioned and inspired words, can change the world. Barack Obama has the potential to bring out the greatness of America, and mark the start a new period of American leadership.

4a. Obama is more American Instead of embracing the Constitution, the Republican administration has brought us the unitary executive theory, seizing power in the name of "protecting America" from harm. Obama understands the President first swears an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution, and the moment we compromise the Constitution in the name of fear, instability or expediency we destroy that which makes America.

4b. Obama is more American (part deux) This is a black man born to a single mom, raised by white grandparents, without a single head start in life. He is the very personification of the one thing that has made America unique among the world. No matter who you are, or where you start in life in this country, we all are raised to believe we can become anything, achieve anything. The ability to transcend, to move beyond where we are in life, is something Obama will spawn again for America, both figuratively and literally.

5. McCain was once an honorable man I was a big McCain supporter in 2000, even helped organize for his campaign. He's a hero, and demonstrated great character as a POW. His "maverick" tendencies in the Senate made me think he really did value his country over politics. But the man who said "I won't take the low road to the highest office in the land" has been exposed as a fraud... willing to say anything to gain the Presidency. Now he campaigns to peoples' worst tendencies... their fear, bigotry and jealousy.

Today the words that come from McCain seem made up, like he doesn't really believe them himself.

6. President Palin, and the simple unseriousness of Republicans Picking Palin was impetuous, pandering and dangerous, and disqualifies McCain. Her selection simply wasn't a serious decision, it certainly wasn't putting America first, and was more cynicism from the Republican party.

The triangle of doom that grips the party -- religious fundamentalist from one angle, neocons from the second, and anti-government types from the third -- have little in common but belligerence, and are tearing the soul of the party.

There isn't much room today in the Republican party for realists, pragmatists or libertarians. Today the party is dominated by zealots and cynics and many, many unserious people.

A lot of good people will vote Republican in this election, based on an ideal view of what they thought the party once stood for... or an imagined view of what it should be. But many simply aren't paying attention to the facts of the day.

7. Obama is a conservative I find him personally more conservative, reserved and pragmatic than John McCain. His calm, cool temperament is in stark contrast to McCain's erratic, hot-headedness as he's jumped from policy to policy on the economy and picking the next American fight overseas. Obama's tax policy is responsible. His economic policies are pro-business, especially small business. His family, faith and personal story are more traditional than McCain's.

The next President will inherit a colossal mess, and my guess is any liberal tendencies Obama does have will be constrained by the reality of an economy on the ropes, unfinished military action abroad, and crumbling infrastructure at home.

Defending America from the threats of extremism abroad and at home was once the role of conservatism. Today, the "conservative party" is more likely to be extremists.

8. More technology, more efficiency and more support for business Obama understands innovation, entrepreneurship and technology are at the heart of American competitiveness. Hes announced policies to eliminate the capital gains tax on investments made into startups, help small businesses create new jobs and afford healthcare, double the federal funding for science and technology research and fund a national network of public-private business incubators. He also plans to appoint a cabinet-level position of Chief Technology Officer for the United States, which could result in greater efficiency, reduced costs and a leaner, more effective government bureaucracy. He understands America could lead the world in energy technology, and that drill, baby, drill is a pedantic response to sending $700b a year to buy oil from regimes aligned against us, or against freedom.

9. A progressive agenda I've always been a political junkie, campaigning in junior high for Reagan, proudly wearing a "Bush/Quayle" t-shirt to school, and buying into the "compassionate conservatism" that GWB promised in 2000. Fundamentally, I still believe the American people, American business and American communities are best capable of propelling our country forward.

But I'm a progressive, and I understand that certain things fall to the government to do when the country cannot, or will not. We must make an investment into the infrastructure of America, the roads and bridges, power and communication grids, and water systems. We must solve spiraling health care costs that kill small businesses and leave sick people without care. We have to fix the crisis with secondary education that ranks near the bottom of all competitive nations.

Obama represents a realistic progressive agenda. He seems likely to set achievable goals, inspire people toward success, and be honest about the challenges we face.

10. Beyond the nonsense Obama represents a chance to move beyond the nonsense that has plagued America. Hes a new generation, untarnished by the cultural wars the Baby Boomers have fought for a lifetime. He is atonement for Americas original sin of slavery and racism, and moves beyond identity politics. His non-fundamentalist Christianity represents the best of faith without arrogance. Hes curious about the world around him, has a questioning intellect and is not dogmatic in his beliefs. He seems open to the possibility that hes wrong about something, but unafraid to tell you what he really believes. He speaks to Americans as adults, appealing to our best nature, and not our worst.

-- Terry Howerton

(This message has been edited by scouter-terry)

Outside the studio, after the endorsement, with even more clarity:

The Republican party radically shifted away from me and its core principles over the past decade, and Powell articulates the same concerns I have about it slouching further toward a dangerously unserious and unAmerican politic.

-- TERRY HOWERTON

For the record, we have not provided any email addresses to any third party. More than two years ago (before GaHillBilly registered) we did make our lists available for very rare mailings from specific advertisers. And I would certainly do so again (though frankly don't have the time to bother) if I thought a good advertiser had a good product that would be of interests. Though if we ever DID resume renting our registration list, it would be under similar terms we followed years ago.

Whatever "message" you received GAHillBilly was not a result of us providing your address to anyone. As for the McCafee report... it shows after registering for free web hosting on our site, it received an average of 1.1 messages a month (including the "Welcome to free web hosting" message we sent to confirm account creation.

If you think there's a security flaw, I'm happy to listen. But if all you want to do is rant about a random spam message ending up in your mailbox, I'd offer you a job filtering one of the 1,500 such messages I received every day, and assure you that SCOUTER had nothing to do with sending you a message. ;-)

TERRY HOWERTON

Eisley - you're letting your imagination get the better of you... I don't think the facts support your belief.

Obama opted out of public financing because nearly 2 million small donors are expected to back him. He's the first to do so since the 1970s, but also the first to ever amass so many individual supporters. How much more democratic could that be? Check it out: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php

Barack Obama Total Raised: $339,216,317.Obama's percentage of funds raised from small donors: 47%Total Obama fundraising from small donors: $157.7M to $160.8M.John McCain total money raised: $145,466,201

Get that? Obama has raised more money from small donors than McCain has raised in TOTAL. And when you poke around through the 151,868 donors who gave MORE than $200 to Obama, you'll find a lot of people like me... small, recurring donations over time. Obama total raised from political action committees? $1,570. McCain total from PACs? $1.2m McCain and the RNC have also raised a similar amount from registered lobbyists, while Obama has refused any donations from lobbyists. When he became the presumptive nominee and took over the DNC, one of the first things he did there was restructure to prevent donations from PACs and lobbyists to the DNC (donating to the parties has been one of the traditional back doors for big money donors to buy influence and bypass the campaign finance laws).

Obama has also all but squashed out of existence the left-leaning 527 organizations... those "beyond the campaign finance law" private groups that raise unlimited funds and influence the campaign (often beyond the control of the candidate). You will hear MUCH less from the likes of Moveon.org, because the money just isn't flowing to them (Obama relocated most of the DNC operation out of DC and to Chicago within days of becoming the presumptive nominee and put a strangle hold on both of these back doors).

The current public financing program is flawed... by capping the amount that McCain will have to spend directly (BTW, Obama could double that with just a $100 from all his small donors), people looking to donate to McCain (particularly the big money folks) are left with no way to do so except through organizations beyond the official campaign... it's ironic that McCain's own campaign finance reform resulted in the creation of 527s like the Swift Boaters (much to his chagrin at the time), and now he finds himself likely in cahoots.

Obama refuses PAC and lobbyist money, McCain does not. Obama shut down back door donations to the DNC, McCain has not. Obama aggressively discourages donations to 527 orgs, McCain has not. Deciding to opt out of public financing was a tactical move, and I can't really see where he had much choice.

What's stunning is actually just how much less influence big money donations have had this year on both campaigns... in any other year, against any other candidate, McCain's fund raising efforts would seem admirable. Really, the amount he's accepted from PACs, etc is small by comparison to previous campaigns. But there's just no credible argument that Obama is "worse"... quite the contrary is true.

BTW, more "campaign democratization" stats that may mean something (or nothing):

Current Facebook Supporters

Obama: 1,195,443

McCain: 177,896

YouTube Views (kinda supports the media's contention that the public is simply more interested in Obama stories)

Obama: 56,484,127

McCain: 4,765,456

TERRY HOWERTON

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(This message has been edited by scouter-terry)

The guidelines that FScouter posted at top were things I wrote for the forum many years ago. They seem pretty durable, and I'm inclined to not elaborate much beyond that.

Likewise, the moderators (all of whom should be thanked for their volunteer effort... trust me, they keep a lot of junk cleaned up that you mostly never see) were chosen specifically because they represented a diverse group of opinions, styles, age, Scouting experience, politics and moderation style. When I asked those folks to serve, it was simply to cut the "noise" (in nearly every case "noise" is SPAM, junk postings, nonsense or personal insults).

I've never met any of the moderators, and to my knowledge most of them have never met each other. This group has been in place now for quite a long time, and in retrospect we ended up with a pretty good balance. They work hard to keep this little corner of cyberspace healthy, happy, and wise.

Here are my current thoughts, after reading this thread:

1) If a moderator deletes or edits a post, I think it's helpful if they sign their name with a brief explanation of why/what was edited. However, I'm not going to require this of the moderators, and will leave it to each of them to decide if and when it's appropriate to sign their name.

2) If a moderator deletes or edits one post from a user, a good practice might be to leave it to a different moderator to edit a second post from the user. There's no easy way for these guys to collaborate in real time... but successive edits between one moderator and one user could be avoided (though certainly not prohibited).

3) Moderation should be VERY light, especially in the Politics Forum. People who say foolish or unScoutlike things do more to reveal their character to the group than any squelching/deleting can reveal. So if you're a moderator, and you see a post or thread that is "borderline", I'd say leave it alone (or admonish the user publicly).

4) Contrary to point #3 above, we also want to be aware that FAR MORE people read these forums each day than post, and the audience includes many young people. The kind of consistent insults, low-brow commentary, or "agitation just for agitation's sake" offered by posters who have been banned (and now being put forth by Gold Winger, for example) should be squelched for the benefit of the readers.

Finally, the opinions of the regulars that post in this forum are very important, and the collective wisdom of the group usually results in a pretty good standard around here. I deeply respect the suggestions of long-time posters who have a history of contributing good content or provocative thought... moderators simply reflect the balance of personalities of the whole forum, and they understand that they were not selected so much as arbiters, but as representatives.

(Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.)

TERRY HOWERTON

Heh, no joke intended.

I admonished others, and now you.

TERRY HOWERTON

Gold Winger - if you feel it necessary to trash talk and broadly label people, take it somewhere other than this board.

TERRY HOWERTON

In 1991, I was 19 years old and William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt was 91. He used to get a kick out of the symmetry of those numbers, and the fact that we spent nearly every day of that year together as unlikely friends.

I had come to know Bill Hillcourt not unlike thousands of others he met each year... I waited in line at the 1989 National Jamboree to have a couple of books signed for my Scoutmaster back home. I really didn't know or think much about who Bill was, I just knew the recipients of those books would appreciate that I had gotten his signature on one of more than 30 books Bill had written on Scouting and the outdoors.

We had a brief conversation that hot summer day of the Jamboree, but it resonated. The following year in organizing for the 75th anniversary NOAC, I reached out to Bill and asked him to write a memoir of his friend Urner Goodman for the event publicity material. The friendship took hold, as we swapped drafts and edits over several months.

Soon Bill invited me along to travel with him as he toured the country visiting Scouting events each weekend, speaking to thousands who were enchanted by his passion and zeal for the Movement of Scouting.

We spent the summer of 1991 in Seoul as honored guests of the World Jamboree. It was there, when we stepped off the plane and were greeted by Korean Scouts who clamored for Bill's attention that I first began to appreciate the worldwide impact Hillcourt had on Scouting.

Later that year, I left my home and moved across the country to live with Bill in New York, helping him publish new editions of his Baden-Powell biography. As a young man Bill had a special relationship with Baden-Powell, who was in the twilight of his life. He admired and learned much from his friend. Bill and I conducted interviews for hours each day, talking about the history of Scouting and the history of the world, all from a firsthand perspective.

In retrospect, I missed so much of an opportunity to learn more from him, and I was so unprepared of the opportunity or responsibility, but it was an amazing gift nonetheless.

We spent most of 1992 traveling and writing and talking. Late that summer, Bill left for an around the world trip for Scouting (I stayed behind to coordinate a book release that was coming off the press, and was to meet up with him in his native Denmark in a few weeks). His trip began in Japan, where a new translation of one of his Scouting books was being released, and on to Moscow. This was just after the fall of the Soviet Union, and Bill had been asked to come to Russia and help draft Scoutmaster training materials for an emerging program that had been hidden for decades in the shadows. He went on to Sweden, where he spent some time with his friends at the Silva Compass Company... Bill and his friend Bjorn Kjellstrom had collaborated many decades before to make orienteering and the liquid filled compass a sport.

He was to leave Sweden, and meet up with me in Denmark, where we planned to spend a few weeks, away from the crowds and the busy travel schedule, focused on Bill's own autobiography.

On November 9, 1992, fifteen years ago today, Bill Hillcourt shockingly, surprisingly passed away.

It's a good thing, I think, to die at 92 years old and have it be a surprise to everyone you knew. He was as mentally awake and physically strong as could be, all the way to his final day. I was a kid, chasing him around the globe, and often I couldn't keep up.

Bill Hillcourt was my friend. That's a funny thing about him... when he died, I wrote to notify a few thousand people listed in his address book. Many of these people were just contacts that had coordinated some weekend Scouting event that he might have attended, probably only meeting Bill once or twice.

But the boxes of reply cards and letters I received told a much different story... for years I encountered thousands of people who would tell of what a special relationship they had with Bill. It didn't matter if you were a young Scout waiting in line for a signature, or if you were some Scouter coordinating an event somewhere for Bill to visit. It didn't matter if he had stayed in your home one night, or you had swapped letters to discuss Scouting. Bill had an amazing gift for making people he encountered feel special, for letting people know how important the relationship was to him.

Bill didn't always agree with the direction BSA followed, and throughout a nearly 75 year career, he was brought in several times to "right the ship" of Scouting when others drove it off course. I'm sure he'd find plenty about today's organization that could and should be better. But I also know that the Movement of Scouting, which Bill believed thrived in the spirit of the Patrol, the challenge of the outdoors, and the mentoring of leadership, would continue to make him proud.

I learned so much from Bill Hillcourt... there's so much more I could have learned, and our time together was fleeting. He had incredible confidence in me, but even higher expectations. Bill showed me, through his trust, that expectations are what raise a child. I will spend my life, often falling short, but always reaching for the expectations and example he set.

This site is dedicated to Bill Hillcourt. I encourage you to read more about his impact on Scouting and the world at http://www.scouter.com/features/0290.asp

TERRY HOWERTON

One cool thing about electronic Forums is that no matter how much nonsense someone wants to type, no trees or baby seals must die for the privilege. So, feel free to flame on with nonsense... but don't hijack other discussions, and don't be unScoutlike.

Ed/Merlyn -- you both do a disservice to your respective perspectives... people tend to align not so much WITH arguments, but AGAINST people with which they can not relate.

Ed, we've been through these silly battles with you before... the last time you were suspended from the Forums for meaninglessly antagonizing Bob White (who quickly joined in the game, just like Merlyn). I suspect you CAN learn (contrary to Merlyn's opinion), and that you choose not to accept facts that you find disagreeable. That's you're right to be obtuse, but how about a little more than a "burp" in explaining your opinion? To do less is really unScoutlike. I'm tempted to suspend you again for a cooling off period from the banter.

Merlyn, the "Scoutlike" way to handle a person who is either deliberately misstating the truth or "unable to learn" would be to have endless patience... point out the facts again to counter their argument, or explain it differently to help them (and others) learn (whichever the case may be). Or decide you can't help them, and focus your attention on others that you can help (i.e. ignore him). The unScoutlike thing to do would be to run out of patience for Ed, yet continue to engage with him in rhetoric.

Who do you expect to align with your point of view? Ed? Probably not going to happen. More likely you'll win over people who can't relate to Ed, but only if they ultimately can relate to you.

We all get carried away from time to time, and need a little time to reset. I'm going to assume Ed got carried away and is being intentionally obtuse because he enjoys poking a stick at Merlyn. I'm going to assume Merlyn got carried away and is poking the stick back at Ed because he's out of endless patience, and is too stubborn to disengage from the debate.

Can we reset, or do we need a cooling off period?

TERRY HOWERTON

test 2

TERRY HOWERTON

test

TERRY HOWERTON

Swat!

Got it!

TERRY HOWERTON

The storm should be mostly over, now. I think I've mentioned before, it's a little like herding cats, to thwart off these sorts of attacks.

At this time, I believe all symptoms of the problem have been eliminated.

TERRY HOWERTON

I believe this problem has been fixed (around 7pm CST). Those are NOT a part of this site, and should not be trusted. It's a result of a virus that was embedded into posts.

TERRY HOWERTON

Test

TERRY HOWERTON

Thanks for the heads up... the site is constantly under "hack attacks", though usually those are thwarted without trouble. Some of the code for SCOUTER now is more than 10 years old, so there's a couple of chinks in the armor.

This current problem is a result of a SQL injection virus, which embeds scripts within the posts. I've located the infection, and removed.

If you notice other issues, just bring them to our attention.

And it's always a good policy (here or anywhere on the Net) to not click something that looks suspicious to you!

Thanks.

TERRY HOWERTON

The core components of SCOUTER.com went live all the way back in 1995... nearly twelve years of service! (That dates pretty much to the dark ages of the Internet :-)).

I don't spend nearly enough time maintaining the site these days (and I'm very grateful to the volunteers who help)... but did manage a couple of tweaks over the past few days that SEEMS to have significantly improved the speed of the site. Anyone noticing a difference in speed and reduction in "time outs"?

TERRY HOWERTON

I agree with and support every word in SR540Beaver's post above.

TERRY HOWERTON

May I suggest a simple (maybe) exercise for the Forum members?

1. Consider if the last word you had on a debate might already be your best last words on the subject for a while.

2. Consider asking a member of your PLC to read the he last ten contributions you made to the Forum. Regardless of whether you actually follow through on this, does even considering it give you any apprehension?

3. Name the (usual) characteristics of three members of the Forum that you really appreciate having in your community.

TERRY HOWERTON

Ads rotate throughout the site and are automatically served by outside ad serving companies. They are contextually matched based on the content of the site. We have some control over that (for example, explicit advertisers can be blocked), but generally the ads that are shown are driven by what the members of this site are discussing.

Unless you see some explicit ad that is inappropriate, I suggest you just not click on an ad that doesn't interest you.

TERRY HOWERTON

Sorry guys! I had no idea the site was down (my monitoring alerts got lost in the shuffle of a busy day). We finally upgraded the database server last week (you should have noticed speed improvements on the site), and apparently something went a little wacky with that machine yesterday.

TERRY HOWERTON

Folks, I appreciate your patience. We took one of the three servers that power this site out of commission a few weeks ago (hardware failure), and I just haven't had a chance to replace it. Since it's a database server, it's pretty important to the overall scheme of things. :-)

Stand by, I'll try to make it a priority this week to get to the new servers.

TERRY HOWERTON

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I have asked both BobWhite and EdMori to step away from the Forums and refrain from making any additional posts until after November 1.

This suspension is to bring some much needed perspective to both, and hopefully allow each to disengage from the pointless, personal banter and focus their attention exclusively on making a positive contribution to the Forums.

Consider this a time for reflection for both, and a much needed breather for the rest of us who have grown so weary of the tone.

TERRY HOWERTON

I encourage Scouters everywhere to join with the community and support the efforts of the American Red Cross in disaster relief. The devastation along the Gulf Coast is unlike any natural catastrophe this country has seen. The failures of leadership at nearly every level to prevent or prepare for the disaster, and to deal with the aftermath, have been evident, and the fragile nature of society is on display for the world to see.

The emergency workers, volunteers and military folks now helping on the ground are doing amazing work under unprecedented conditions.

The efforts of the Red Cross represent the best of the American people uniting to help each other. I have made a donation, and encourage you to do the same.

Click Here to Make a Donation Now

Perhaps you can also add a link to your website or emails to encourage others to support relief efforts? SCOUTER.com has created a link for you to use to help collectively show support in this cause:

https://www.redcross.org/donate/redir.asp?OID=SCOUTER&DID=09042005

A simple image (as displayed above) can also be obtained from http://www.scouter.com/assets/images/redcross.jpg

TERRY HOWERTON

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)