berkshirescouter

...BSA is paying fair market price for use of the facilities...

I was thinking, the BSA puts money into the facility too don't they?

 

If the Military's reason to do this is for its training and recruitment, then shouldn't BSA be charging for the use of the scouts?

 

I would also make a comment that if this was at a BSA facility say Pilmont the Military would pay to be involved, for the above reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a comment. NJ I agree with you, but especially on the point that the laws are to restrictive. I have a friend who married a women from SE Asia 2 years ago. They are still jumping trough hoops to legally enter the country. If she came in illegally she would be with him now. Either change the law or enforce the law.(This message has been edited by Its Trail Day)(This message has been edited by Its Trail Day)

There is some interesting history on how cities have used this power. As I understand it The area where the World Trade Center stood, was cleared using this power. The building was owned by the Port Authority but leased to a developer.

 

My father-in-law had a business in Rochester NY. The city used this power to buy his building and tear it down for an Industrial Park. He had 20 employees. Too small for the park. They forced him to move buy a new building with a mortgage. His business went under 10 years later, maybe because of the move maybe not, however the Park was never built and now 20 people are out of work.

The moral of the story is If they build they may still not come. This method does not always work.

 

Great news, but here is someting to think about.

A news report this morning (6/22/05) stated the boy saw the people looking for him a while ago, but he did not go to them because they were strangers. In our zeal to protect children from preditors we almost lost one to the wilderness.

Now for the $64 question. Have these questions been asked of members of other youth groups? Girl Scouts 4H Scouts Canada? Not to take away from BSAs good works but the comparison to be true, BSA should be compared with other groups not no group.

 

A study of this kind in Europe with scouting and others would also be interisting.

 

The Federalist Society's Civil Rights Practice Group and its San Diego Lawyer's Chapter present a panel discussion on:

"The Constitution and the Boy Scouts: Equal Access to Government Land and the First Amendment"

If you have about an hour and a half to listen to this it covers both sides (Balboa Park vs Boy Scouts) very well. The link is below.

 

 

http://www.vcnetcast.com/fed

 

I have one more.

 

When I first got involved in Scouting I wanted to know everything about everything. I chose the compass to look into first. Being an Engineer I went to the specifications of all of the producers. I discovered that the Tates Compass Company were the worst. Not repeatable had trouble finding north generally not a good compass. When I wrote the company and asked them why their product was so bad they said it did all their advertising said it did. After-all their slogan is:

 

 

HE WHO HAS-A-TATES IS LOST

 

I saw this quote today. It should make a good SM Minute.

 

Most often, the man who becomes leader is not the one that knows the way but the one who behaves as if he does.

 

I would sign it also. My thought was could you see the list every group would need. The Girl scouts discriminate against boys etc. The law would be a burden to everyone.

 

Paul

http://www.alternet.org/rights/22030/

Comments?

 

Did you know that all electronics works on the principal of captured smoke. If the device is smoking, you let the smoke out and it will not work again.

And Still more Engineer jokes.

 

YOU MIGHT BE AN ENGINEER IF...

------------------------------

The only jokes you receive are through e-mail

At Christmas, it goes without saying that you

will be the one to find the burnt-out bulb in

the string

 

Buying flowers for your girlfriend or spending

the money to upgrade your RAM is a moral dilemma

 

Everyone else on the Alaskan cruise is on deck

peering at the scenery, and you are still on a

personal tour of the engine room

 

In college you thought Spring Break was a metal

fatigue failure

 

The salespeople at Circuit City can't answer

any of your questions

 

You are always late to meetings

 

You are at an air show and know how fast the

skydivers are falling

 

You bought your wife a new CD ROM for her

birthday

 

You can quote scenes from any Monty Python

movie

 

You can type 70 words a minute but can't read

your own handwriting

 

You can't write unless the paper has both

horizontal and vertical lines.

 

You comment to your wife that her straight hair

is nice and parallel.

 

You forgot to get a haircut ... for 6 months

 

You go on the rides at Disneyland and sit

backwards in the chairs to see how they do

the special effects

 

You have Dilbert comics displayed anywhere in

your work area

 

You have ever saved the power cord from a

broken appliance

 

You have more friends on the Internet than in

real life

 

You have never bought any new underwear or

socks for yourself since you got married

 

You have used coat hangers and duct tape for

something other than hanging coats and taping ducts

 

You know what http:// actually stands for

 

You look forward to Christmas only to put

together the kids' toys

 

You own one or more white short-sleeve dress

shirts

 

You see a good design and still have to change

it

 

You spent more on your calculator than on your

wedding ring

 

You still own a slide rule and you know how to

work it

 

You think that when people around you yawn,

it's because they didn't get enough sleep

 

You wear black socks with white tennis shoes

(or vice versa)

 

You window shop at Radio Shack

 

You're in the back seat of your car, she's

looking wistfully at the moon, and you're

trying to locate a geosynchronous satellite

 

You know what the geosynchronous satellite

function is

 

Your checkbook always balances

 

Your laptop computer costs more than your car

 

Your wife hasn't the foggiest idea what you do

at work

 

Your wrist watch has more computing power than

a 300Mhz Pentium

 

You've already calculated how much you make per

second

 

You've ever tried to repair a $5 radio

 

 

Another Engineer joke

 

A Dead Engineer

 

An engineer dies and reports to the pearly gates.

St.. Peter checks his dossier and says, "Ah, you're an

engineer--you're in the wrong place."

 

So the engineer reports to the gates of hell and is

let in.

 

Pretty soon, the engineer gets dissatisfied with

the level of comfort in hell, and starts designing and

building improvements.

 

After a while, they've got air conditioning and

flush toilets and escalators, and the engineer is a

pretty popular guy.

 

One day God calls Satan up on the telephone and

says with a sneer, "So, how's it going down there in hell?"

 

Satan replies, "Hey, things are going great. We've got

air conditioning and flush toilets and escalators, and

there's no telling what this engineer is going to

come up with next."

 

God replies, "What??? You've got an engineer?

That's a mistake! He should never have gotten

down there;send him up here."

 

Satan says, "No way. I like having an engineer on

the staff,and I'm keeping him."

 

God says, "Send him back up here or I'll sue."

 

Satan laughs uproariously and answers, "Yeah,

right. And just where are YOU going to get a lawyer?"

 

 

Good question. I would make one change. Instead if changing the 12th point from Reverent to Thoughtful. I would make it Reverent 'or' Thoughtful. Either way I wound stay in the program.

Our CE has told me if he finds out a Scouter has asked a boy or an adult if they are gay he will pull that Scouters membership on the spot. In our Council it is don't ask don't tell.

Ed

 

Sorry to disagree but a cross exludes Judism and Islam among others. In this case I would have left the cross there and I'm Jewish.

 

Paul

Hi

Welcome to the forums. I too have an interest in astronomy. I use a manual Meade ETX scope, great for campouts. Read the merit badge requirments (see www.meritbadge.com) or the book. Require no more or no less. You can teach as deep as you want to go. Have fun. On cloudy nights get out the computer star software

I have read the news story and it is a major embarrassment for him, his family and BSA. However as we teach in Citizenship of the Nation you are 'Innocent until proven guilty.' Lets temper our comments until the legal system has run its course.

There are exceptions to the non discrimination rule. In New York State a community of ultra Orthodox Jews incorporated a school district in order to get state aid for their disabled kids. It is in the courts but if they win its religious discrimination to other groups if the loose they cannot get proper education for there disabled kids. NJ you may know more about this. I read about this several years ago and don't know where it stands now. My point is separation of Gov and religion cannot be absolute but is still needed in some form for minority protection.

The next step may be that the ACLU will imply that BSA does not represent society. They then will attack the value of the program as not being 'diverse', in an attempt to try to drop BSA member numbers. The counter to this should be for US industry to point out that any boy who is in the program as it is now produces better employees and leaders.

Here is a link to an interesting artical.

 

http://jewishworldreview.com/0305/charen031105.php3

To repeat, the school MUST allow the BSA or the UMYF

to meet at the school if it allows other groups to

meet there, but it can't sponsor the relgious group.

I think the First Amendment is just fine as it is.

 

The problem here is under budget cuts the schools may charge access to all groups not sponsored by them.

OK. Try this. Lets say planned parenthood made a presentation at a public school, they are secular. But a religious group with an opposing point of view could not. Is this viewpoint discrimination? Now add recruitment to the mix. Allow one, allow all or none. If none, is this in the public interest? Now the school sponsors a GLAD group. Secular, yes. Boy Scouts Cub Scouts religious, no. Is that viewpoint discrimination? Is it in the public interest?

My point of view is if the topic, group ect is in the public interest the state should sponsor it but be religious neutral. Deal with problems locally on a case by case basis.

 

No thats not what I am asking. One question comes to mind is for the purpose of the 1st amendment what is a religion? By allowing only secular ideas, are you removing non-secular points of view from the public area of discussion. Is that then discrimination? Is it in the public interest?

Do we as a society want/need/should review how this Amendment is interpreted? As it is now, there is zero tolerance of breaches of the separation of church and state. The unintended consequence is good programs are not allowed to participate, other programs with a secular bent are allowed. Some groups view these secular viewpoints as a type of religion and are troubled when only that point of view is allowed in the state controlled area of ideas.

 

What are the thoughts of everyone here?