Rooster7

Does anyone from the Atlanta area, for example, have information that the Scouting professionals there are, instead, doing a stellar, or at least, nominally successful, job?

Thats an interesting approach. Sort of sounds like guilty until proven innocent. Does anyone have any information on Prairie_Scouter to indicate hes a good person or at least, someone that should not be held in contempt? Otherwise, what everybody has been saying about him must be true.

Great suggestion CalicoPenn! Let's find more creative ways to hurt the BSA. Is that why you post here? By the way, I love those father & son Scouting storiesthe fond memories you must have.

Does anyone on this board understand the time, effort, and money involved to bid on a large government contract? Is not one of the reasons for a noncompetitive bid, time efficiency? For your edification:

Halliburton Contract Originally Awarded In Competitive Bidding Process

[H]alliburton Is In Iraq Primarily Because In 2001 It Won A Competitive Bidding Process To Administer The Logistics Civil Augmentation Program, A Multiyear Contract To Supply The Army. (Max Boot, Op-Ed, Dont Blame Halliburton, Los Angeles Times, 4/22/04)

Halliburton Received No-Bid Contracts During Clinton Administration For Work In Bosnia And Kosovo. Halliburton has also gotten some no-bid jobs in Iraq, just as it did in Bosnia and Kosovo in the 1990s, and for the same reason: Not a lot of other firms have similar expertise in supplying the U.S. military, and with a war on theres no time to stage a lengthy bidding process. (Max Boot, Op-Ed, Dont Blame Halliburton, Los Angeles Times, 4/22/04)

Brent,

Pleasewhy allow facts to get in the way? Dont be such a wet blanket! Next youll be telling us that the broadcast and print media is guilty of biased reporting, if not to justify their political posturing, then to pander to the hopeless ideologues who subsidize them.

SR540Beaver,

Here's the problem with your comparison -

John Spencer who? Is Spencer a household name? How many times has he been elected to office? How many folks would recognize his name if he was brought up in conversation? So, you find this conservative who's a desperate want-a-be, and he makes a few comments that you think are harsh (which by the way, I can't dispute not knowing much about the race in New York).

On the other hand, Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, and Dean are leaders of their party. They are not only recognizable, but the party faithful lift them up as models. Even Jimmy Carter, given his recent comments at Coretta Scott King's funeral, deserves little respect. The leadership of the Democratic Party is full of them. You had to do some research to find Spencer.

Lisa,

First, I meant what I said to you as a compliment. You did present a good logical argument.

As to my quip about other liberals, I was focused on those in the movement that speak for the Democratic Party - Kennedy, Dean, Pelosi, and the like. In general, I like all people despite their party affiliation. However, I do feel that those who speak for the left are out in left field. You are welcome to feel the same way about conservatives, but I would argue that there is much more evidence to support my claim.

Lisa,

Thanks for a well reasoned reply. That's something that I have found to be rare coming from your side of the political spectrum. And frankly, your argument is so well presented and unemotional, I cannot offer a rebuttal at this time. Most in your party like to stoop to claims of racism, imperalism, capitalism, and the like. I find your response to be refreshing, if not enlightening.

For the record, my disdain for what the Olympics has become, goes beyond last nights music selection. Also for the record, my disdain is not directed at those who embrace these games, as if the Olympics represent some sort of pinnacle of human bonding. My disdain is for the idea, which is promoted shamelessly throughout Europe, and more recently the United States, that peace on earth and the resolution of all the worlds problems are within the grasp of mans good nature. The fact is - the best that man has to offer cannot change the hearts of other men and make the world a better place to live. While we ought to strive for world peace, we need to start by recognizing first and foremost that Gods hand is required. We need to stop our self idolatry.

Eamonn,

You may worship God thinking Lennons lyrics are harmless. Perhaps you even find these words to be noble:

Imagine there's no heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today...

As for me, I find them to be offensivenot to be taken lightly. I implore every God-fearing man and woman to understand the implication of his words. Hes implying that our faith in God is the cause of the worlds evils.

Lastly, why or how you linked my opinion on the Olympics and how they reflect humanism - to my conservative political views is baffling to me. My opinion is based on what I have observed, and if they are rooted in anything, its my faith in God and who he is, not my politics. So, lets flip this around a little if you could break out of your flaming liberal the sky is pink world, perhaps you could you grasp the idea that God is ALMIGHTY GOD, and he is not to be ignored or taken lightly.

And all I am saying is: No God No Peace. Know God Know Peace.

With each passing year, more countries either trample or ignore principle in favor of self-serving politics. This fact alone has caused my fond memories of the Olympics to fade. I enjoyed the Olympics better when the worlds countries knew they were accountable to God, and acted accordingly. While the world's history has been riddled with wars and other cataclysmic events, the Olympics have become a godless celebration of individual human achievement. Furthermore, if/when the games attempt to speak to world unity, it too is celebrated as a potential reality which can only be brought about through human effort (i.e. We are the world, Give peace a chance, Imagine there's no heavenImagine all of the people, etc.) Our capacity to celebrate ourselves is boundless. Instead, we should be on our knees before God, praying for humble hearts.

Beavah,

Again - I'd like to congratulate you on another well constructed post, which eloquently and intelligently addresses conservative thought. You've quickly made my short list of favorite folks on this forum. Of course, now that I have identified you as such, you will no doubt become the focus of liberal scorn, which abounds on this board as of late. Your mission - ignore the babble and press on. Good Luck.

SR540Beaver,

Wars and hurricane spending aside

I cant tell you how ridiculous of a disclaimer that isits beyond comprehension. Perhaps on par with, Other than that, how did you like the play Mr. Lincoln? You might not agree as to why we are there, but you can't ignore the fact that we are there. Its impact on the budget is huge.

GB,

This Everlasting War on Terror will drain our economy and send us into the history books to follow the great empires of the Soviet Union, the Romans, the Greeks and the British Empire.

Id rather see us go broke fighting the good fight, than to hide behind our borders only to squeeze out a few more years of prosperity and to forsake our children to a future saturated in blood, because we were too cowardly and selfish to deal with this menace today. The latter is the history book of choice in which your name will be written, not mine.

As President, Bush represents the entire country. For that, I am thankful. For the most part, I appreciate his thoughts and the direction he is leading us. Whether or not every action he takes reflects the conservative movement needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. He is an individual as much as anyone else and has on occasion veered off course from his base.

SR540Beaver,

You are comparing apples and oranges. Regardless, would you prefer Bush to only fight wars which are economically viable? Was the United States economically irresponsible because we chose to get involved in WWII?

GB,

If its hypersensitive to ask someone to back up an accusation with fact, then I guess Im guilty as charged. But, perhaps youre on the defensive - because you cannot justify your slander against conservatives. And since when do the actions of the current president or any one president represent the ideology of an entire political/social movement. While I admire Bush, I dont think every deed or word of his, in or out of office, necessarily reflects the thoughts those who support him. Nevertheless, lets look at the current budget and how it conforms to big government

Bush just submitted a budget that swells the size of government to record levels. He funds this with the greatest deficit spending in history. He has created more government agencies staffed by more government employees than any other president.

Gee, do you think the fact that were fighting a worldwide war against terrorism has something to do with the inflated budget? Or, perhaps the fact that the United States was confronted with its worst natural disaster (a.k.a. Katrina) and our federal government is attempting to provide assistance for the recovery effort, contributed a tiny bit to the deficit? These are not attempts to expand government, so to better society. They are exactly the kinds of issues which the federal government should be addressing.

From the Chicago Tribune (February 6, 2006):

Bush's own priorities are reflected in a proposed Defense Department budget 7 percent higher than this year's - $439 billion, without counting the additional costs of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That is 48 percent more than the yearly defense spending that Bush inherited in 2001.

At the same time, Bush is calling on Congress to restrain the spiraling cost of Medicare and other entitlement programs that absorb an increasing share of the national budget, proposing $36 billion in cuts in Medicare's growth over the next five years, largely by limiting payments to doctors and hospitals.

The president is also calling on Congress to make his tax cuts permanent, and the White House acknowledges that the costs of war and of the recovery from Hurricane Katrina will contribute to setting a new record budget deficit of $423 billion for 2006.

Again, this is not NOT about big government. Its about fighting a war and providing relief from a catastrophic disaster. Anyone who isnt trying to recreate reality to make political points can see the difference.

GernBlansten,

Okay, so now youve made an accusation against the current conservative movement. Fine, so now lets see how you substantiate that claim. Explain to us how the conservative movement is guilty of this charge. Otherwise, your words are just another slur.

johndaigler,

Beavah's retort to Lisabob was a well thought out response. It was intelligent and addressed the issues point by point as defined by Lisa. On the other hand, your response ignores all reason, makes a baseless emotional plea, and then accuses Beavah of some how lowering the bar of debate. Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y? To add insult to injury you propose that my compliment of his post is proof of the same. Unbelievable.

I don't know if you're overly sensitive or not. However, you're definitely not responding with reason, to reason.

Beavah,

As Mr. Smithers says, "Excellent!" That was a very astute evaluation. As a certified Red C, I must say - Bravo...and Amen.

Yeah...when he sings "start me up", I can't get the image of a defibulator out of my mind.

What's truly sad...while we mock their inane behavior and politics, SF is not embarrassed they celebrate their deeds as if they are the light on the hill...a beacon of hope. I am reminded of an old Andy Griffin show - the episode where Barney Fife moves around in choir practice searching for the member singing off key as he screeches his way through the hymn.

Even more likely - they would create legislation giving the invaders health care and drivers licenses, while denouncing the imperialistic attitude of the current administration.

And how dare anybody question their appreciation for the military men and women who defend this country...Certainly, SF had these folks in their hearts and minds when they decided a Navy ship wound stain their landscape.

GB,

I can tell that youre a liberal. Not because you found a story that might make the RNC look bad, but because of the masterfully way in which you twist reality to fit your needs. Does anyone else outside of GB, seriously believe those band aides were intended to be used as a symbol to mock Purple Heart recipients? Who was mocked John Kerry or American veterans who deservingly received a Purple Heart? Conversely, can there be any mistake as to who was being booed as they stood on stage to present the flag a stage which Democratic representatives offered up to the BSA. Clearly the BSA, and some of their young Scouts, were exploited and abused by the DNC for political purposes. These two events cannot be compared with a straight face...not unless you swallow the Kool-Aid of liberal politics - no such thing as a lie too big - which has become the staple of the DNC.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

GernBlansten

But I think scouting is a great opportunity for our young men to appreciate and respect people from all races, colors and creeds. I think segregating your troop by your faith confounds that goal.

The implication of your post is this. The BSA should promote diversity above all else, and not allow churches to use the program to promote their faith and values. I dont see diversity as being paramount to all other values. Also, I think coupling this argument with race and color is a red herring. To my knowledge, no troop is segregated based on race. Even if true, they must be in an extreme minority and should not be associated with churches that wish to use the program as a vehicle to reach their youth.

Some folks forget that the BSA partnership with the chartering organization is exactly that - a partnership. That is to say, the BSA has as much a responsibility to help the CO promote its values, as the CO has to promote the values and goals of the BSA. That said - I see no conflict. If you prefer a CO that has no values to promote, fine - then find one, but don't complain when they take no interest in your activities.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

GB,

No problem. Just don't let any dandruff fall onto the forest floor?

And we have millions of acres of parks. We don't need LNT as much as we need some law enforcement for the real abusers.