raisinemright

Brent,

Do you find the boys do OK with a smaller tent? I use my halfdome most of the time and while I really like it, it is very small. I wonder if the small size would prevent stuff from getting thrown all around, as some boys tend to do.

Since your tents are personally owned, how do you handle damage by a tentmate?

OK Scouters, I need your years of wisdom. Our troop needs to replace our fleet of tents. Chronic zipper problems have rendered ours nearly unuseable. Me and another ASM have been given the dubious honor of researching the options.

I'm a long time tent camper with more tents at home than people so I've got some idea what features are good and what are not, but given the great amount of stored wisom on this board, I yearn for your input.

Of course, cost is a big concern, but so is ease of set-up/take-down as well as reliability when subjected to normal scout abuse.

Have at it gang.

Actually, smoking at camp should be encouraged. It may give the boys some opportunities they never had. (sarcasm)

At SM outdoor training, someone was apparently sneaking a quick smoke and started a small grass fire. It was pretty funny watching 50 scout leaders tripping over each other to put out the fire.

Personally I don't smoke but to me the idea of 4-5 leaders sitting around a fire puffing on cigars after a great day sounds kind of nice.

I've never done Cub Scout resident camp (this year will be the first time) but day camp is best described as "three days of chasing the Little rascals around."

Success is best achieved when they fall asleep on the ride home. Real success is if you have several scouts and they all fall asleep on the way home.

Scout camps tens to be fairly tightly scheduled, but there is some specified downtime. Some activities are less intense that others too.

The key is to put yourself in the kids shoes, act like big kids and have fun.

I'm keeping this list.

I picked up some sort of fungus at a mountain man reenactor show. One spark gets is started and it's hard to put out. I haven't tried it on a fire yet, but I did smoke out my bedroom when I thought it was out and was still smoldering. (Luckily, my wife puts up with me.)

I like the idea of marking the car, but defacing the entire car with a saw cut is kind of extreme. Perhaps a braning iron could be made or bought that marks the car on the bottom as having passed inspection.

Our kids go to any number of different churches. Some of them just wear their uniform, other churches take a few minutes to recognize scouting and the accomplishments of the boys.

I think we're going to skip the patches this year though. Sometimes they are really good, but this year, they've gone with a many paths to God theme, which goes against the theology of most of our families.

We got back Saturday from our winter Experience in Michigan. Friday never crested zero F and was around -5F overnight. Saturday was actually quite pleasant topping out around 20F. 6 inches of fresh snow fell through the day.

The boys had a blast with no complaints. A couple had cold feet due to cotton socks (hmmmm, did they actually learn their lesson) and one had worn out insulation free gloves.

One of them thought he had polypro official scout socks, but they were the cotton ones.

I woke up around 4am and thought about doing a tent check but couldn't bring myself to get out of my warm bag so I didn't bother. I would have awakened up all the boys.

A couple of us leaders brought a bunch of extras like blankets, socks, gloves and fleeces. Little of it was needed.

We just had fun and spent the day mocking global warming.

It was so cold, one of my windshield wipers cracked off, one of our tent zippers snapped when I tried to adjust it and my 3 year old Rocky boots cracked and broke.

Our Klondike is tonight in Michigan. It's -5F last time I checked but is expected to warm up a bit with a low of around 0 by tonight. Teh Scouts are prepped and ready for anything. I've packed a few extra fleeces and blankets in case anyone needs some extra insulation but I think it's gonna be cold but fun.

I've prepared a scoutmaster minute at the end:

"We need the iron qualities that go with true manhood. We need the positive virtues of resolution, of courage, of indomitable will, of power to do without shirking the rough work that must always be done."

Theodore Roosevelt uttered these words about 100 years ago. I came across this quote earlier this week and thought of you guys.

We have survived this weekend in the bitter cold. Numb fingers putting up and taking down our gear, cold feet as we pulled the sleds, warm throats as we guzzled hot chocolate, ice growing on our facemasks, yet, we survived and thrived.

You young men have developed the iron qualities that go with true manhood, resolution, courage and indomitable will. No longer can you say those awful words I cant do that cause you just did this.

Congratulations. Together, you now have the memory of this tough weekend to go with you through your scouting life and your life as men.

Shakespeare perhaps said it best.

From this day to the ending of the world,

But we in it shall be remembered-

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers

Brothers, you have succeeded. Lets move on to our next challenge.

I would, but I'm only around one more year then my son ages out. We're working diligently on transerrring our responsibilities and knowledge to younger guys.

Nearly all the boys who have moved in to Boy Scouts are in our troop and he's the CC.

I've thought about gear and some sort of real nice plaque.

Our Cubmaster has been in place for 9 of the 10 years our pack has existed. His youngest son will be crossing over this March so he's gonna be gone.

I'd like for the pack to honor him with a special gift at B&G but haven't had any great ideas. We traditionally get a hiking staff for any leaders who age out, but given his years of dedication, I think something more substantial is in order. Somewhare in the $50-100 range would be good.

I would like to ask for some assistance from the years of wisdom on this board.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

While there are definite correlations to the prodigal son, I must disagreee with BW and PS. This isn't a boy scout who abandoned his POR so he could play basketball, it is a Den Leader who is responsible to lead and mentor a bunch of Cub Scouts.

If you study the prodigal son parable, you'll note that the son did receive gifts from his father upon his return including a coat, ring and a party complete witht eh reguisite fatted calf, however, you also note by it's ommission that he was not restored to the father's will. All the father had remaining would be going to his other son. The corollary here is the same as with the prodigal den leader.

Trust but verify should be used in this case. A heart to heart with her between the pack leadership is necessary to see why she is returning and to have reasonable assurance that she will remain.

You just got sucked in to the vortex.

I mad ethe mistake of suggesting a camp module to our DE. Guess what? I'm on the planning team.

After noticing that many of the cubs and lots of parents don't really know proper flag etiquette, like shutting up when the flag is being raised, I suggested that we do some scout skills stuff, flags, fire building and a little bit of the cool stuff.

Due to a scheduling conflict, my kid won't be going to day camp this year, but I'll be there.

I've taught my scouts and my kids that if someone ever tries any bad stuff with them like abuse or abduction, everything we ever taught them about fighting fair goes right out the window. Even if they just suspect a problem, their job is to punch, kick, scream, pull hair, gouge eyeballs, poke with a stick, bite(hard) and anything else they can do to get safe. If it was a mistake, the perpetrator of the mistake will learn the right way to get a kids attention and I'll take care of the repercussions later.

I knew a guy once who was intervening when his kid was getting beat up by the local bully. Apparently someone called the cops cause a female officer came up behind my friend and grabbed him from behind. In no time, she was on her back with his foot on her neck. Not long after that, he was enjoying the feel of handcuffs, till they got it straightened out.

I've been concerned about this. Our numbers are a little bit down since several families moved out of town over the summer, but we did add several new cubs so we're almost even. Popcorn was excellent this year, I think our 2nd best year ever. That gives us some breathing room.

I'm going to propose at our next committee meeting that we refund registration fees for any families who become unemployed upon request.

Being in Michigan, since it's been so dismal for so long, it's easy for us to imagine that the entire country is in the same condition, but it is not, although it's togh all over, like Lisabob said, we've been "blown Away" for at least the last five years (yes, that is a slam at our Governor) whereas large parts of the country just recently slid into this recession portion of the business cycle.

We tend to go a little over the top on Derby day.

We have a four lane track with computerized scoring, broadcast on a movie screen. We also have a camera on the track to broadcast the race as well as a stop action camera that shows the photo finish. The Cubmaster made a car with a cordless spy camera on it so we also run an in car camera on some races.

At the least, try to get an electronic finish line. When cars are closely matched, it's hard to determine a winner. We once had to run the final race about ten times before a clear winner was established cause they were so close.

Here are a few things we've found to work well.

Be very clear on the rules as the cars are being handed out.

We don't have a group building day, but we have a weigh-in and inspection the week before the race. Everyone comes over and we weight the car and have a variety of materials to add or subtract weight to get each car at 5 oz. (as a joke, I loaded an old car up with 9 oz. of lead last year and suprisinngly did not win.)

The cars are then quarantined until race day.

Have heavy competition for design prizes as well as fast cars. My kids for instance never really cared about speed, they have always been more interested in a cool design idea. One year I had three kids cars entered and all three won their design category. As I was passing out the prizes, I told the parents I didn't tally the votes and I didn't even cast a vote.

Have some snacks for sale. Hot pretzels, candy and chips go over very well.

We have a whole slew of prizes to raffle off. Some donated, some bought and some leftover popcorn. In between many of the races we'll pull a ticket or two. Each kid gets a couple tickets for just showing up. They can buy other for $.25 ea.

We also raffle off a BB gun (to the parents officially) and pocketknife every year. Tickets are $1.00 ea. Just enough to pay for the items.

That is a real highlight.

After the racing is over, the real action begins as the track is open for any family or grudge matches.

Make sure the event is fun.

Just got back yesterday from a winter trip. We had the Troop and a bunch of Webelo's so we did rent a cabin. A few boys slept outside. I brought my tent but never got around to setting it up.

The weather was teens and twenties but the guys spent a great deal of time outdoors. Me and my two boys (2c and W1) went to the camp Friday afternoon so my son could plot out an orienteering course for his MB.

On Saturday, about 30 boys and a few dad's honed their compass skills and were out for several hours. Since htey were moving along, no one complained except one of the dad's who wasn't really prep'd for the bitter cold. He's not the outdoor sort of guy but is a good sport and will do anything for his boys). We sent them out to scrounge firewood but a 2 hour snowball fight ensued instead. No big deal since we really didn't need the fire anyway. They also found a hill and went sledding for a few hours. The guys all learned how well layering and no cotton works and enjoyed the entire weekend. I literally did not hear one complaint all weekend. They were too busy having fun.

I made my first trash can turkey and the scouts made a few box ovens. Learned an important lesson too. Spontaneous combustion happens. When done cooking, leave the oven door open so the coals can cool. The boxes were too close to the cabin. God looked down on us as one boy went outside just as the box burst into flames, so he kicked it into the snow. Man, they were great heavy duty boxes too but all of them lit up.

Just thought of a couple other things.

Practice setting up camp with gloves on. Even doing it indoors helps.

Our troop bought a whole bunch of tents that suffer from an atrocious design and suffer chronic zipper problems. Make sure to take tents that don't have problems and check them beforehand.

A fire is not a great idea for warmth, but it does lift the spirits and presents a great gathering place.

As a leader, keep your spirits high and pass on the right attitude. Make sure your ASM's. SPL and PL's do the same, no matter the circumstances.

CA, you forgot to mention anything about cotton.

I helped run a municipal ski club for about 30 years. Every Friday night, we'd take about 100 kids about 50 miles to a local ski hill. One policy we developed that we would not break in any way shape or form was that parents could not pick their kids up at the ski hill without a written request turned in before we left the city. It was for the express reason of protecting against a non-custodial parent from possibly taking a kid while in our supervision.

We had one memorable argument where a father was picking up his kid to continue up north for a weekend trip. While we had no reason to distrust him, we told him that he could only pick her up back at the recreation center. It was 100 miles out of his way, but too bad.

I've gone out in winter a few times and had lots of fun and I think learned a bit.

I like to have a mylar emergency blanket. I wrap up in it inside my sleeping bag.

Wear a knit hat to bed

Always change clothes before bedding down.

My feet tend to get real cold so I bought some North Face down tent booties (down slippers) and am now nice and toasty.

Take a snow shovel

Jam water bottles down into the snow to prevent them from freezing

If you're using a dining fly, get sides for it. We got some last year and it stays very warm inside.

NO COTTON. Repeat 15 times.

A 0 degree bag isn't really necessary if it's not going to be massively cold. A 15-30 degree bag can be made warmer by using a sheet as a liner.

Take an insulated mug for coffeee/hot chocolate.

Use a foam or insulated core sleeping mat. I've heard it's more important to insulate from below that to warm from above as the earth acts as a huge heat sink. The other day, I rolled off my mat a little bit. My knee was hanging over the edge but not touching the ground. I could actually feel the difference.

If the ground is really frozen, a cordless drill and a 1/2 to 3/4" long drill bit might help for making pilot holes for tent stakes.

Resist the urge to overdress. Remove layers before you begin to sweat.

Have fun. The challenge is worth it.

ASM411,

Keep an eye on your state firewood rules. Since the Emerald Ash Borer seems to be everywhere, Michigan just removed the firewood restrictions in the lower peninsula. They don't encourage it but it's no longer illegal to transport firewood.

Maybe Ohio will follow.

That could actually be a difficult task for some boys. $2.00 in 1911 is worth about $50.00 today. However, wages were far lower. In 1914, Ford introduced $5.00 a day wages which was double to previous rate of $2.40 a day.

So in essence, for a first class Scout to earn $2.00, it was the same as earning a full day's pay for a grown man. For someone earning $50,000 a year now, it would be the equivalent of $200.

That is quite an accomplishment for a young lad of 13.

I've been hearing that most newer public pools feature zero entry which means the concrete comes up tot eh edge like a beach. These pools are rarely over four feet deep which means that most kids never, ever go in water over their heads. If they do fall off a pier or a boat, it's all over.

My wife and I firmly believe that one of the highlights of scouting is the necessity to learn to swim. My son refused to learn to swim until he finally came to the realization that he would go no further than Tenderfoot unless he did learn. He finally allowed me to toss him in over his head and he quickly overcame his fear.

Last summer, we were camping with some friends who are also in the patrol. Their son needed his lifesaving component for 2nd class. I decided to trhow some realism in it by falling out of the boat in the lake. For added realism, it was a windy day and the boat quickly drifted away from me while he tried to figure out how to use the electric motor on the boat. His dad was there and wisely did absolutely nothing while I slowly drowned. It was kind of fun and he learned better how to deal with the stuff in a stressful situation. I'm not a real strong swimmer and should have probably had a PFD with me, but since the other kids were circling me whith kayaks so they could watch the "rescue" the danger was pretty slim.

In looking at the requirements, I'm not sure any otf them are really dated but all do reinforce the timeless values we try to instill.