nivipi

Eagle54

As Bob said, Axes and Saws are tools that have they own uses.

Personally speaking, we don't use bow saws because we have realised we really don't need them, we prefer to use hand saws like the ones used to cut pumpkins, those are more portable and we feel more comfortable with them. Regarding personal protection equipment we use only gloves, those cheap white ones, to avoid blistering, more than equipment is important a safe actitude towards your work, concentration, looking around, etc.

Regarding axes, again the most important is a safe actitude, being aware of the power of the tool. There are two kinds of axe, hand axe and a lumberjack or "big" axe, both used in diferent situations.

One note about lumberjack axes, even while the cutting is not done through the user strength but by the weight of the axe head it does requiere a minimun of strength , otherwise is quite dangerous because you cannot control de downfall, that's why I shouldn't recommend someone to young using them, maybe a strong 13yo and up, also using a lumberjacks axe when tired is a no no. Again the only protections we use are wool work gloves to avoid blistering.

As a final note technic is very important to avoid injuries of your lower back.

Hope it helps

Lets see, from april 2003 - jan 2004 (our current scout year)

"passing" group camp in tents at the beginig of the year 2 nights - 3 days

Winter group camp in cabins 2 nights - 3 days

Spring troop camp 1 night - 2 days (usually adventure camp, yerbaloca (3400 masl) this year)

Group birthday camp in tents and usually 2 nights - 3 days (cancelled this year)

Summer troop raid 4 nights - 5 days (prior to summer camp)

Summer group camp 15 nights - 15 days (the troop arrives to base camp at the end of it's first raid)

So we have about 24 nights - 31 days

(This message has been edited by nivipi)

I probably didn't express myself correctly.

First there were no girls present, when I mentioned the girls I was thinking in a GS patrol and how they could face the same situation.

Second it was not Mountain Climbing, is kind of dificult for me to explain but is like this, during a game that involved running and started in a relatively plain area on scout "scaped" from another towards a mountain and while that zone was off limits he was to involved into the game and didn't realize it and then he fell down the side of the mountain, it was not an abrupt fall but more like rolling down the side hitting himself with the boulders that fell with him ... kinda dificult to explain as I said before.

But that's not really the point, accidents can happen everywere, even if we plan ahead and consider safety with boys accidents are always a posibility. For example recently a boy under my care broke a leg while playing soccer, he was running tried to dribble and fell with his leg under his body... there was no foul play, nor there was a hole or irregularity on the field, how can you prevent that?

I don't think the question is should we do patrol activities, you are right, they should be done according to the BSA , the WOSM and practically every scout asociation, the question is wich activities should be unsupervised and to wich extend.

Of course I won't argue about the BSA ground rules, because I'm sure they are good, and even if they weren't is no my position to question them.

and the duty of adults.

This comes from a another thread were the issue of wether there should or should not be activities (like campings or night outs) were the boys (and girls of course) should be unsupervised and in wich conditions.

My point is what is the limit on the responsability we should allow the kids to take, "allowing the kids to take responsability" may sound weird so I'll elaborate; when I was a scout we had a very serious accident, a boy fell from the side of a very steep mountain and sustained heavy injuries, he was with another boy that seeing that entered into shock because he felt responsible and was traumatized, next arrived to other boys, one went to fetch the SM and the other remained there, the one who remain there was APL and had the first aid badge (on my troop badges were not merit badges but rather speciality awards (I checked www.meritbadges.com to compare), the first aid badge was the most demanding one of all, actually I tried but fail repeatedly to get it ) but this boy froze, was simply overwhelmed and scared, and I think that was the normal response to that, he was not a coward or anything, he was only fifteen and incredibly scared because he was supposed to know what to do and solve the situation, he did know, but as he said later he had his mind blank. Fortunatly the SM arrived with acouple of us ( I was the same age as the APL at the time), and we transported the boy to a truck, to finish the story he was taken to a medical outpost in the construction of a nearby hidroelectric plant, was diagnosed with a punctured lung (the blood on the head and other parts were not life threatening, just lacerations) and was transported first by helicopter and then by plane to a hospital were he could be operated, he fully recovered in about a month.

My point is, had we the boys not had a SM as backup we would have had a tragedy.

That's why even tho I admit the benefits of unsupervised activities I accept that it should be the SM the one to have the last word on this, there are times were leadership and skills are simply not enough. And even tho the scout parents know and accept unsupervised activities I still feel that we are morally responsible for the boys safety at all times, specially while we are not present.

Nivipi

Mr White (may I call you Bob?)

I'm from Chile, and actually I've noticed that here boy scout programme has a lot of things from your girls scouts ! (hope they boys on my troop don't ever read that or I'm dead meat )

As I said I agree with you and on this and many (but not all) of the things I've read on your post, in particular I think that solitary experiences (patrol or personal , (but I'd prefer as a leader at least two persons) are really worth it, including the potential risk, my troop did it for years and we never got any accident (at least not alone, we did have some but always there was a SM present ... very by the book )

But , and I'm going to open a new thread about that, I have another escenario to consider..

When I was a boy during summer camp we used to go away for one or two nights alone in patrols, and a requierment to the two last ranks (Eagle and Condor) was camping alone (during a summer camp usually) for two and three nights respectively, we had great.

But now as a SM (technically ASM but in our group there is no distinction between them) we don't allow them to go camping alone, personally I think it would be a good idea that they did, but the rest of the staff disagrees , and they do have some good points, we are responsible for them in front of their parents, if an accident should happen and we are not present, what do we tell the parents ? it could severely damage the image of the scout group not only our troop, but the 7 units of the group.

Another point worthy of note is that while our group does a lot of camping it's not really very focused on skills like knots, first aid, etc. While we some of it we really only do the basics, because we focus on other things like art for example, so the younger don't know much of camping right now (because they have just arrived)

Greetings

Victory? Victory is static, once achieved it's gone, only a memory... sometimes material for history books.

Development of character, that's something that doesn't start at age 11 and certainly doesn't stop when drinking and voting becomes legal for you.

The core of scouting is that, development of character, it's not program , not even method but development of character.

So, there is no posible Victory to accomplish, winning in a competition is of course a victory, but not The Victory just an accomplisment, just a candle compared with the sun to wich we aspire.

That said, of course there are a lot of victories, every girl or boy who becomes a bit more trustworthy, loyal, generous, courteous and happy, lover of nature, obedient, optimist, servant of mankinf, values work and prepares him or herself for true love is a victory for a troop, for his scout leaders, and of course for the rest of the scouts, in his troop and worldwide, a victory that is more valuable the more challenging the task

Thanks AdvanceOn

are this standard medical forms ?

Could someone please post a link to them , because we do our own medical forms ourselves and sometimes I think they could be improved, thanks

This might be longer than the rest, but still it only takes a minute to read

[iF]

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you

But make allowance for their doubting too,

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or being hated, don't give way to hating,

And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,

If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,

And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breath a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,

Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;

If all men count with you, but none too much,

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

--Rudyard Kipling

My brothers have it in their rooms and I know it almost by heart , is veery beautifull and inspirational

SPL

I was a member of a co-ed scout unit that is (i think) similar to venturing, you'll find that the girls knowledge or lack of it of camping skills is not really a problem, if they know to good, if they don't they will learn without much effort, learning to light a fire with wet wood might be challenging but it only takes you to be willing. Our unit was heavly focused on comunity service , tho camping was still important, and they were very helpfull in both. At the end I advice you to accept all girls that are interested and of an appropiate age level for yor unit, you won't be disapointed.

Nivipi

Hello

What's the usual profile of a SL at your group ?

Here there are two usual profiles, in the first most of the leaders are between 18-25 ( I belong to that group) , are usually studing and "retire" scouting before finishing their studies, almost all of us are volunteers (i.e. recive no money whatsoever, except in some cases were bus fare is paid ) and anoter group where the leaders tend to be older, sometimes parents of the scouts but most of the times members of comunity organizatuions like churches or schools, I think that still most of them are voluntary but less than in the first group, my knowledge of this second type of SL is very limited because I don't personally know many of them.

Salu2

Nivipi

Thanks

packsaddle, most (95%) groups here are co-ed, it's not mandatory to be co-ed but it's the prefered choice.

The usual scout group structure is like this

boys girls

manada de lobatos 7-11 bandada de golondrinas

tropa de scouts 11-15 compaia de guias

and the Ruta is a mixed unit with boys and girls aged 15-17, not all Rutas are co-ed, but it's quite comon that way.

Personally I like it this way, it's good for both girls and boys and it dosn't cause much trouble to the leaders.

At an organizational level there is one comon organization for both guides and scouts .

Salu2

nivipi

Hello guys

I'm a Scout Leader from Chile and found this site while looking for some cooking recipies and thought it would be iteresting to know how scouting is done in other parts of the world

I tried looking if this site is particular to a region or country but couldn't find a faq about the sites purpose, so if I'm intruding or anything I hope you excuse me

nivipi

PS No one knows some good recipies for cooking with coals ?