Newbie Den Leader

In our Pack, the Dens support themselves by collecting monthly dues ($5). Each den gives 20% of dues collected back to the Pack. In our scenario, the dens typically have more money in their accounts than Pack. This way, the dens are not dependent on the Pack to "subsidize" the cost of their den activities. When we do fundraisers, it's for the Pack so we will have money for Pack events.

That said, we have nothing in Pack rules that would prohibit a Den from doing their own fundraiser.

Back to the original post -

William Cronk sounds like a fine choice.

QUOTE FROM jkhny:

This is pretty sad considering they had MORE in Scouting in 1952 - when the numbers were a far more accurate count and the age group served was far smaller.

Do you have proof that the numbers were more accurate on a national scale than they are today? In 1952, counts were likely done manually. Yes, there were more members in 1952 but families were also larger as 3 to 5 children per family was commonplace. Today, the 2.3 kids per family average does not help increase the pool for potential recruits for boy scouts.

Also and sadly, The BSA does not have the public support and popularity it once had because public opinion has changed on manymoral issues while the BSA has held it's ground. In 1952, belief in God and disapproval of homosexuality were common in the public square and the BSA was not challenged on these issues.

I would rather the BSA hold it's ground on moral issues and be smaller instead of pandering to public opinion for the sake of getting more members.

In my world (Pack and District level), I don't hear the leaders talk about national council or membership numbers. Usually, the conversations are geared toward making our units better or how to be a better leader. I conur with funscout. Leaders in my district generally leave when their sons leave, not because of national or council politics.

Fundraisers (popcorn)are not popular activities, but they do provide needed funds for our Pack. Without some kind of fund raising, we would have to raise our monthly dues to provide a quality Pack program.

QUOTE:

"Newbie, go now and recruit a buddy to go the following year.

The crux of the original post was about arrogance. Tell the Scoutmaster never to mistake arrogance for enthusiasm.

Newbie, go to Wood Badge and prove to your friend that at least one person who took the training isn't arrogant.

To bad eveybody on this forum didn't live near to each other. It would be one vote for arrogance and many votes against."

ux2bnowl,

The Cubmaster and myself will be taking WB course together within the next year.

I'm not in a position to tell this Scoutmaster that he is wrong. He has 7+ years experience as an adult leader and I only have one year. I listen to him because he's fine gentlemen with lots of Scout spirit and well respected in our district. He actively volunteers and supports district events. The best I can do is listen to his view and also hear others that give a favorable view about WB.

Sue M,

You express the ideal situation, but I think Cub Scout Packs suffer primarily because they cannot find adults willing to be registered leaders in the first place. If adults make that commitment, then we can begin to encourage them to sign-up for basic leader courses (NLE, leader specific) and then possibly BALOO and OLS after that. University of Scouting is also very helpful. Classroom training aside, our Pack gets excited when an adult simply makes a commitment, puts on the uniform, and is engaged in weekly den/pack meetings.

Packs also suffer because of adult leaders who do not deliver a fun and interesting program for the boys. You dont need WB to take cub scouts on outings and plan fun den meetings.

--NDL

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and also SR540Beaver for his story. It's obvious from most of your posts that that an attitude of servant-leadership is present. Thanks to all of you.

Is it time for me to take WB? Not for a while, but that day will come. I'm still a rookie leader and I plan to take BALOO and OLS this year to help me be a better Cub Scout Leader.

I remind myself that it's "about the boys" and not about me.

Wood Badge?

Im contemplating taking this someday and Ive read many favorable comments concerning it. I spoke with an experienced Scoutmaster yesterday who said he had no desire to take Wood Badge until the program is changed. He believes that Wood Badge fosters a spirit of elitism and the leaders who take the course come out worse leaders than before they took it. His concern was not critical about the advanced skills that are taught but more on how the course shapes personal attitudes that creates a spirit of superiority and arrogance. Im not saying this fellow is right or wrong, but only stating his different perspective.

What say ye Wood Badgers? Is there any truth to his remarks?

I stand gladly corrected.

Still, when one thinks of the boy scout uniform they usually don't picture an activity t-shirt. Hmmmm....now that I think about it, some scouts can't even picture what their uniform is supposed to look like.

scottteng,

I'm not sure who you are responding to but I'll emphasize it again. The BB Gun Belt Loop requires that the Cub Scout "explain the rules for Safe BB gun shooting you have learned to your leader or adult partner". This requirement is not done at my district's day camp and therefore it is not yet completed. However, it can be completed at home or at a Den Meeting. As a volunteer den leader at my Day Camp, I will sign-off that the boys have shot BB guns under the instruction of a certified range officer, but I do not sign-off that they have completed their BB Gun Belt Loop.

I'm glad you gave up a Saturday to be a trained to be a BB Gun instructor. Not many are willing or have the time to do that.

There is only one boy scout uniform. When the Scoutmaster tells the boys to be in "uniform" without any further explanation, they know what they should wear. No will show up in an activity t-shirt.

Greg,

Talk to the camp officials and let them know that they are not quite accurate on earning the belt loops as you have explained. This appears to be plain-ol miscommunication that has been passed on to the other volunteers who have not taken the time or initiative to look at the actual requirements.

In Cub Scouts, there is a lot of giving away of awards. Sometimes it happens by an honest mistake or sometimes its done by creatively re-interpreting the requirements. Sometimes I feel that much of the latter occurs rather than the former. In either case, its up to informed parents to give back the award or belt loop to the Cubmaster when junior has not actually earned it.

Youre doing a good job and keep up the good work. Belt loops are EASY to earn, but still need to be earned.

--Jeff

"ive found that theres quite a number of troops that have their JASM's, SPL, ASPL'S and so fourth have insignia on their shoulder loops."

That's a creative idea and I bet it looks pretty neat. I never see those in our Council.

It's not in the Uniform Guide, but...

This site will give you some information. Alot of interesting BSA history with some information about uniform changes, but probably not the amount your looking for. Give it a try.

http://www.threefirescouncil.org/History/index.htm

The neckerchief is the traditional identifying mark of the scout uniform. IMHO, the uniform looks incomplete without it.

Adult leaders tend to avoid neckerchiefs because other adult leaders avoid them, just like they avoid wearing the scout pants.

QUOTE: Our problem is that we have no committee..I've heard of Packs with Committees, Trainers, and Advancement chairs, but I've never actually seen one.

Believe,

We have had the same problem and getting a Pack to function by the BSA organization model is difficult to maintain. I often hear advice from training classes instructing leaders NOT TO DO more than one position in a Pack. Well, thats nice advice from the Ivory Towers, but not real world advice.

QUOTE: I have taken all the training online that I can. Sent in all my forms to Council and have yet to receive a Trained strip.

Believe,

Funny, I had the same problem. I spoke to my DE and asked him if he could give me a Trained strip since I had completed all of the requirements. He mailed the strip to me within a few days. Talk to your DE and ask him to help you.

funscout,

Congratulations on having an ethusiastic Tiger Den Leader. What a blessing! We lost our Tiger Den this year because no one would step up to be a Den Leader. The few Tiger recruits we had either dropped out or transferred to other Packs.

I would not hold the reins on this guy, but let him take off. As suggested in earlier posts, remind him not to frustrate the parents if he is planning alot of scheduled meetings and activities during the summer. And, remind him not to take it personally if Tigers do not show up during the summer. But hey, if the families are lovin' this guy, then let him take off running. I'm convinced that the success of a Pack is dependent on the ability of the Den Leaders to deliver a fun and active den program.

--Jeff

In my day (1970's), they offered both collared and v-neck. I'm not sure why they don't today.

I always wear my neckerchief. It completes the uniform.

I don't know on the top of my head, but I have a gut feeling that your service project would cover several requirements. Take a close look at the handbooks and don't forget the arrow point electives. Your project invloves citizenship, doing something outdoors, a visit to an important site, and it possibly has religious or cermonial significance. A veteran's cemetery is definitely a memorial site of historical significance.

For Bear: http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/bear.html

For Wolf: http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/wolf.html

Electives:

http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/wolfarrow.html

http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/beararrow.html

I concur with the other the posts. The A&S belt loops and pins may be earned at anytime from Tigers to Webelos; there is no time limit that they must be completed while earning a rank. I find no wording in the Leader Manual that says otherwise.

Eagle-pete,

Good opening post. The instructor makes the difference! Even if its a canned scripted curriculum from National, a prepared, enthusiastic instructor is priceless.

As for my experience, the NLE course was very good but the den leader position specific course was poor. The difference? The NLE instructor was prepared, knowledgable and could answer questions. The leader specific instructor was not prepared and just kind of left it as an open Q&A time. If it was not for the great advice and ideas I received from my Cubmaster, I would have been left in a frustrated position. The best advice I ever received for running a den meeting was this one: Keep It Simple, Make It Fun.

Roundtables? In our district, these are pretty much relegated to information about upcoming district and council events (deadlines, paperwork, Q&A, etc.). There is no training other than a handout that covers the theme for cub scouts (this is good, but this information is also available online). The most I get out of roundtable is connecting with other leaders and getting acquainted (this is also good because we are not an island and need fellowship and encouragement). In all, attendance at our roundtable suffers because so much training information is now available on scout websites including district and council websites. If we did not have the requirement to attend a minimum number of roundtables to earn our knots, I suspect attendance would be worse.

John-in-KC states:

"If something unfortunate happens ...

- Your plan places the property owner at risk of a negligence suit.

- Your plan places the principal leader at risk of a negligence suit.

- Should your "grouping" include divorced partners, your plan places the other parent at risk of a negligence suit.

Overall, this is A BAD IDEA ..."

John,

Yes, it's a bad idea when you invite folks you do not know. It's a great idea when you want to take your son camping. BTW, I would not camp on anyone's property without their permission.

My camp would be a "personal" campout and not under the guise as a Cub event. A Scout is trustworthy and obedient. The Holy Scriptures also teach me not bear "false witness". I would never go knowingly or willingly go against G2SS. If I could not follow G2SS, then I would would resign my position as an adult leader.

Lawsuits? The BSA would not be involved if someone gets hurt. It's my campout and the BSA is out of the picture.

One way around all of this is simply go on a winter campout with your son by yourselves. You could privately invite another dad and his scout son to come along as friends. No invitations or announcements of your campout should be made at Pack or Den meetings. This would not be a "cub scout campout" or a "Pack outing", just a campout with your son and some friends. Keep all of your official scout gear at home and do not wear your uniforms or any part of them (class A or B).

No tour permits, no medical forms, and no rules broken. Have a good time.

Akela,

True. We're not there and we don't know this Scout. However, Lisabob did ask us in the opening post, "Any thoughts?".

I'm confident that Lisabob can sift through the advice that is useful and throw out the advice that is totally useless for this situation (mine included).

Dont send him back to Cub Scouts because he will regress rather than progress. He has to get out of the cradle and stay out. Encourage him to stay with the Boy Scouts but take it slow at first. He will mature in Boy Scouts but it will take him a little more time than the other boys. Go slow and dont require him to attend every single campout or outing. Do encourage him to be at every Troop meeting to stay informed and active with the Troop program. There is a huge difference between Scouts who are 11 and 14.

That said, there will be a point where he will need to tough it out if he is going to learn how to Be Prepared. Boy Scouts are not for everyone and some boys do not assimilate well to an intensive camping and outdoors program.

I can relate to this young man because I was just like him. I stayed in the Boy Scouts for 4 years with wonderful memories. I started out scared to death of bugs, snakes, and the dark. Before I left I was a Senior Patrol Leader and in the Order of the Arrow.

Parents take turns and usually we give the boys something every den meeting. No food at Pack meetings, unless we are having Blue & Gold or end-of-year Crossover.

Snacks a bad habit? That depends on what we're eating. I have cut down dramatically on my refined sugar intake. Personally, I feel much better, have longer lasting energy, and have lost weight. I can't help but think that our Cubs would benefit if they cut down on sugar. The entire American culture is becoming obese because we have forgotten to eat the right foods. Sugary sodas and the "juice drinks" are okay on occassion, but are bad news when they become a staple of our diet. I used to drink two Cokes a day and then I finally realized why I was feeling tired and lousy. It was the SUGAR overload - 10 teaspoons per Coke. I began replacing the Cokes with water or unsweetened Iced Tea and began feeling better right away. I'm not a health nut. I just made a simple adjustment in my diet and it made a dramatic difference.