AZMike

I hate to be the spoilsport here and suggest people define the terms they are using, but "PC" is pretty ambiguous. Many here are using it to refer to a social policy that one does not categorize or call people in terms they do not prefer (which I always thought of as "courtesy" or "good manners" or "being a gentleman.") How can one argue with not being needlessly rude or insulting?

"Politically incorrect," on the other hand, was a term I first saw and heard used in the feverish political tracts and speeches of the far Left student movements (like the SDS, SLA, Weather Underground, etc.) of the 1960s, when it was used in a non-ironic manner to castigate those who failed to follow the Marxist/Maoist/Stalinist/Trotskyite/whichever party line. One who aped the "politically correct" line was one who followed such teachings slavishly, and incorporated them into their worldview. This is the actual origin of the term.

When we describe someone as "politically correct" nowadays, I don't think of it as someone who observes common courtesy when referring to someone's ethnic, religious, sexual, or national characteristics. "PC" to me means someone who has adopted the current political orthodoxy wholeheartedly, to the exclusion of common sense.

When the staff of Bryn Mawr, an historically female college, announced recently that they will now admit men who "identify" as women, despite having male genitalia and a Y chromosome, you know you are dealing with people who are indeed "politically correct."

If you have ever used the terms "Cisgender," "Transwoman," "Sky Fairy," "siblinghood" in place of "sisterhood," "homophobic" in anything other than quotation marks, or used a non-gender specific noun (such as "it" or "ir" to describe an actual human being, or declared that "the Vagina Monologues" discriminates against "transwomen or other women who don't have vaginas," you are very probably Politically Correct.

Growing old makes you a stranger in your own country.

 

As for the eyes, I find them... "Fascinating!" (yeah, I know it's the wrong character). The trucks on the other hand...for me not so much fear, more like 'horror'.

But on the other hand, that character (Spock) was originally made-up with greenish skin tone to emphasize his alien-ness. As Nimoy's character became ever more popular, they gradually toned down the green and turned-up his on-camera time.

FYI for Pogophiles, here is a later Walt Kelly government-sponsored comics on the Job Corps, from the LBJ era: http://randomactsofgeekery.blogspot.com/2014/11/government-comics.html

So if the precepts of humanism include (per the 2003 Humanist Manifesto):

• placing the human being as the central value and concern
  
• affirming the equality of all people and striving for truly equality of opportunity for all
  
• valuing personal and cultural diversity and condemning all forms of discrimination
  
• encouraging the development of knowledge beyond limitations accepted as "truths"
  
• affirming the freedom of ideas and beliefs
  
• rejecting all forms of violence, including economic, racial, religious, sexual and other forms of violence.
  

And these are (ahem) religious precepts, we should stop teaching these concepts in school....

Sounds like the U.S. Navy and the Bureau of Prisons aren't on board with the "Humanism is a Religion" claim: http://www.religionnews.com/2014/11/06/navy-faces-suit-denying-humanist-chaplains/

Honestly' date=' a lot of my frustration comes from the consistent reminder of how I'm not good enough of a person to be involved in scouting because I do not believe in god(s) by those that want to push for the traditional foundation BP laid out.[/quote']

 

I like girls and think they are pretty great people. But I don't think they should be Boy Scouts. I don't think you're "not good enough of a person," you just don't fit the membership standards as established, anymore than a girl does. That's not a slam on you.

 

GSUSA ties to Planned Parenthood? That's just right-wing paranoia. The GSUSA have no ties to Planned Parenthood. Of course that hasn't stopped various right-wing wackos from starting boycotts over it and right-wing bloviators like http://www.breitbart.com complaining about it.

So...comments?

Oh, snap!

Sounds like the traditional merit badges are being de-emphasized as well: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/us/girl-scouts-debate-their-place-in-a-changing-world.html?_r=0

Sounds like the GSUSA is being pulled not in two ways, but three. The AHG may fill one of those niches.

From what I read in the media accounts of the contentious recent GSA convention, you have a movement to make the GSUSA more of a left-wing social justice / empowering of girls movement at the possible cost of the mission to bring girls into the outdoors; a movement that wants to restore the outdoors mission; and a conservative movement which is focusing on the current leadership's ties to Planned Parenthood and similar organizations: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/20/Girl-Scout-Membership-Plummets-Nearly-12-in-Past-Two-Years-And-Now-A-Split

The GSUSA is experiencing a significant leadership drop, per Time Magazine: "for the second straight year, both youth and adult membership in the Girl Scouts has dropped dramatically. Over the past year, the total youth members and adult volunteers declined by six percent, from 2,994,844 to 2,813,997. The past two years have seen total membership down 11.6 percent, and since 2003, when membership peaked at more than 3.8 million, total membership has plummeted 27 percent."

We might see the balkanization of the GSUSA in the future. It's possible that an organization that is flush with new recruits on its membership rolls can be more forgiving of doctrinal diversity, whereas a sense that membership is slipping may cause the leadership to enforce whatever the perceived orthodoxy is, leading to a greater splintering of the organization. I have the sense, however non-PC it may be, that women in volunteer organizations may be more likely to vote with their feet than men are. The different structure of the GSUSA (from what I understand of it) may contribute to that, and some AHG units could benefit. Hard to say.

AZMike' date=' I must be missing the "in flagrante delicto" part? Unless you are using it to mean something other than what I think it means.[/quote']

 

It's used colloquially to mean something like "caught red-handed" or "caught in the act," and often used to describe being caught in the act of cheating on one's spouse, as in the satirical cartoon at the bottom:

 

 

I've always been a fan of Walt Kelly's brilliant, long running comic strip "Pogo" (from a poster's avatar, I know we have at least one other fan here, too.) If there were a Mount Rushmore for comic strip creators, Walt Kelly would be right up there in granite with George Herriman, Charles Schulz, and Bill Watterston.

Back in 1961, the U.S. government (or "gub'mint," as Pogo himself might say) commissioned Kelly to create a guide for parents who were concerned about the effect of television on their kids. What Kelly created is both insightful, droll, whimsical, and charming. (As government work-product, it's also non-copyrighted.) I just found this today and thought I'd share. It's hard to imagine the government commissioning anything like this nowadays, sadly, especially the panel where an armed Albert the Alligator, playing the part of a husband, catches Pogo, playing the part of a mom, in flagrante delicto. Nowadays, that would probably be decried as support of domestic violence and handgun use by the left, and by the right as a depiction of same-sex marriage, instead of the goofy slapstick fun that it obviously is.

Some good points here: enjoy and discuss.

http://randomactsofgeekery.blogspot.com/2014/10/government-comics.html

We have more media sources than just today to worry about today - this Christian Science Monitor article http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2014/1020/How-much-film-violence-for-kids-Parents-losing-their-compass-study-says got a lot of attention recently. I'd say this is still a relevant topic.

The BSA isn't and never was intended to be for all boys. It's an organization that requires a religious adherence as one of its membership requirements. Boys who aren't religious, like girls, can still be good people but aren't eligible for membership. They can be members of other youth groups or start their own, but this is the way the BSA was set up. I wouldn't join an atheist organization and demand they accommodate me by allowing me to start the meeting with a Christian prayer.

Man, you brought this thread back from the dead after 4 years...

Just ran across this today, I don't think it's been posted yet. An interview with Robert Gates and a look at grassroots level Scouters.

http://www.esquire.com/features/boy-scouts-1014

Just found this on the web - I don't know how many issues there were: http://randomactsofgeekery.blogspot.com/2014/09/comic-reading-library-little-scouts-2.html#more

There's a best-selling horror novel titled "The Troop" by Nick Cutler about a Canadian Scoutmaster who takes a troop of Scouts camping on a remote island only to find they're not alone...here's the description from Amazon:

“The Troop scared the hell out of me, and I couldn’t put it down. This is old-school horror at its best.†â€â€Stephen King

Once every year, Scoutmaster Tim Riggs leads a troop of boys into the Canadian wilderness for a weekend camping tripâ€â€a tradition as comforting and reliable as a good ghost story around a roaring bonfire. The boys are a tight-knit crew. There’s Kent, one of the most popular kids in school; Ephraim and Max, also well liked and easygoing; then there’s Newt the nerd and Shelley the odd duck. For the most part, they all get along and are happy to be thereâ€â€which makes Scoutmaster Tim’s job a little easier. But for some reason, he can’t shake the feeling that something strange is in the air this year. Something waiting in the darkness. Something wicked…

It comes to them in the night. An unexpected intruder, stumbling upon their campsite like a wild animal. He is shockingly thin, disturbingly pale, and voraciously hungryâ€â€a man in unspeakable torment who exposes Tim and the boys to something far more frightening than any ghost story. Within his body is a bioengineered nightmare, a horror that spreads faster than fear. One by one, the boys will do things no person could ever imagine.

And so it begins. An agonizing weekend in the wilderness. A harrowing struggle for survival. No possible escape from the elements, the infected…or one another.

Part Lord of the Flies, part 28 Days Laterâ€â€and all-consumingâ€â€this tightly written, edge-of-your-seat thriller takes you deep into the heart of darkness, where fear feeds on sanity…and terror hungers for more."

I've only read the reviews, but I kept thinking...don't they have two-in-depth YST in Canada???

 

Oh yes! Books of dreams.

 

It's a long wait after you order your Randall knife due to demand. As a result, existing knives sell on the secondary market for a significant premium over retail.

 

Almost as good were the old Army Navy stores, perfumed by the odor of U.S.G.I anti-mildew treatment on everything canvas. One troop in our distirct used old Japanese bayonets, purchased at $.10 each from the Santa Ana Army Navy, as tent pegs. (I wish I had bought a garbage can or two of them, but we all "knew" Japanese steel was junk.)

Oh, yeah. Here in Arizona we had a department store chain called "Yellow Front" that sold work clothing, hardware, athletic gear, camping and hunting gear, firearms, and military surplus. There were big cases of (probably) Korean War-era c-ration cans that you could buy for 25 cents, big boxes of random miltary insignia and unit patches, mess kits, gas masks, and that Proustian military canvass smell you recall. It was a great place for kids to spend their allowance.

Other catalogs I recall from times past:

STEPHENSON WARMLITE, a mail order business run by an aerospace engineer that designed some of the first ultralight backpacking tents and sleeping bags...and I had to stop receiving the catalog because he used nude models in the catalog. (my mom wasn't happy when she opened my mail and skimmed through it, and told me I shouldn't receive "that" catalog again.)

L.L. BEAN - still around of course, but still a catalog I looked forward to receiving each season back when it was more backpacker/hunting/fishing.

BERETTA - Like Orvis, had very high-end gentlemen's clothing for hunting and fishing (the sort you would wear if invited to a grouse hunt in Spain). They are still around, but I think web-based instead of catalog. They have an awesome store in New York that is worth a trip: http://thetrad.blogspot.com/2014/08/...york-city.html

INDIAN RIDGE TRADERS KNIFE BLADES - great knifemaking supplies.

NEW ENGLAND DIVERS - Now out of business, I think.

BANANA REPUBLIC - still around as a hipster clothier catering to the young and too-skinny, but when it opened, it marketed travel/outdoors/"adventure" type clothing, as well as some authentic military surplus. I used to enjoy reading their catalogs in the mid-1980s. Times have changed.

The thread I started on outdoor supplier scout discounts got me started thinking about some of the mail-order outdoor suppliers that have gone out of business, but whose catalogs I pored over as a youth. Anyone else remember any of these, or recall any others?

THE SMILEY CORPORATION - based around San Francisco (I think), they sold real old-timey stuff to prospectors, mule-packers, and others - the sort of people who planned to stay in the outdoors a good long while. Stuff you couldn't find easily anywhere else, like packable wood-burning stoves.

HOLUBAR MOUNTAINEERING - pioneered lightweight down sleeping bags made out of nylon, based out of Boulder, CO. Very customer friendly return policies in their stores (similar to REI). Later purchased by North Face.

HERTER'S - went bankrupt in 1981, but sold a line of outdoors, fishing, and hunting products, and a memorably whacky catalog. The founder sold his self-published books through the catalog, including his 656-page "How to Get Out of the Rat Race and Live On $10 a Month" (on outdoor and survival skills, "The Professional Guide's Manual," and lots more. Here's a NY TImes article remembering his somewhat unhinged books and catalog empire: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/bo...s-t.html?_r=2&

RANDALL KNIVES - I first read about them in the book "We Seven" about the Mercury Project astronauts. One of the chapters detailed their survival preparations, and the special survival knife the commissioned Bo Randall to make. They're still in business, although the founder has passed away, but I used to love looking at their catalog and seeing the beauitiful hand-made knives I couldn't afford. (I finally bought one in the Army. It was a work of art.)

Moah, including some regional outlets:

I think that Mountain Sports in Arlington, TX also offers a 10% Scout Discount, but check first: http://www.mountainsports.com

Outdoor Trails in Lynchburg and Daleville, VA also offers a 10% discount to card-carrying Scouts and Scouters. Their president and founder is a long-term Scouter: http://www.outdoortrails.com/scouts.html

L.L. Bean offers discounts to Scouts under the following conditions: "We encourage young people to enjoy outdoor recreation. Accredited schools and troops affiliated with the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts will receive a discount for outdoor equipment that will remain the property of the schools or troops. Restrictions apply; please call 800-458-3058 for information." See http://www.llbean.com/customerService/aboutLLBean/charitable_giving.html

Emergency Essentials with stores in Utah offer a 10% discount on camping-related gear. You have to register with the store (here's how: http://www.myscoutstuff.org/resource...utdiscount.pdf). The "My Scout Stuff" blog notes that they have frequent sales on Mountain House freeze dried meals, and the discount would possibly apply to the sale price. http://beprepared.com/#default.

The Canyoneering USA on-line store offers a 20% discount on Imlay Canyon Gear products, and 15% on other brands to Scout leaders if the items are used 51% or more for youth group activities. Here's how to do it: http://www.store.canyoneeringusa.com...discounts.html. They have a really good selection of climbing, rafting, and camping gear.

Adventure16, which is a chain of southern California outdoor stores that I like to visit when in LA and San Diego, used to offer a discount to Scout leaders - I haven't checked in a while, but I suspect they still do. They started as an Explorer Post in La Mesa, CA which began making and supplying their own line of packs to raise funds to make 16mm films of their trips (hence their name), and grew into a regional chain of stores. Fun places to browse. http://www.adventure16.com

GENERAL NON-SCOUT-SPECIFIC DISCOUNTS AND TIPS:

This page lists current discounts and sales through different outdoor retailers (Moosejaw, GearX, and Mountain Plus). If you bookmark it, you can check back on updated sale items: http://www.backpacking-tips.com/disc...king-gear.html

If there are specific items you are looking for, enter them in your shipping cart on Amazon, and mark them as "Save for Later" rather than keeping them in your "buy now" list. If you bookmark your shopping cart, everytime it comes up it will tell you if the seller has increased or discounted the price (sometimes a matter of pennies day to day, sometimes pretty hefty price drops). Also good to check in around Black Friday and Cyber Monday, to see if anyone is selling the item at a big discount.

The site www.retailmenot.com is an aggregator for discounts and discount coupons for most of the bigbox retailers. Search them to see if they have any of your local sporting good / outdoor equipment retail chains. I always do this before doing any shopping (of any kind, as I am a frugal man, from a long line of cheap people) and often can print out a coupon to give me a discount off the highest-priced item. At the local "Big 5" discount sporting goods store, they had an advertised sale on 2-burner Camp Chef propane stoves at $80. I printed out a "$10 off a purchase over $50" coupon, and got the item at $70.

Signing up for customer loyalty clubs at your local outdoor retailers often gets you discount coupons in your email in-box. Some (like Sportsman's Warehouse, where I shop a lot) have a program where you earn a point for every $1 you spend, and when you get 500 points, you earn a $50 gift card. Cabela's, Dick's, etc. all have preferred customer programs. If you are an REI member, of course, you also get money back (usually in March) based on your purchases through the year. Save your coupon until Memorial Day, when REI has its biggest sales, and you can combine the two to get some serious discounting going on, there.

Not really a discount, but if you like to save your change (I have cups all over the house and in my car where I toss loose change as I get it), you can use the CoinStar machines in many grocery stores (you can search for kiosk locations by zip code here: https://www.coinstar.com/#about) If you just want the kiosk to count your coins and give you a voucher that you cash in at the checkout line, they charge a small fee, but if you want to cash it in for a credit at Amazon (where I buy a lot of outdoors stuff), there's no fee. I do this 4 or 5 times a year. The kiosks also let you cash in unused gift cards, so if you have a restaurant gift card you received and you don't plan to go to that restaurant, you can turn that into Amazon credit.

Say what you will, but that's the most distinguished mug shot I've ever seen.

Thought it might be worthwhile to start a list of businesses that offer discounts for outdoor equipment to Scouters.

Please feel free to add any other sources of which you are aware.

Also, please don't abuse these resources, many of which offer very hefty discounts out of appreciation for what Scouting does. Most of these businesses ask that you do not go to local retailers and use the discount price to try to get them to beat the price (which harms the relationship between suppliers and retailers), and obviously, do not purchase these items for resale, or for friends and extended family. Specific requirements for each site are listed on each on-line companies' website.

COLEMAN - Coleman offers discounts to Scouters through their Non-Profit Outdoor Recreation Center Program - see http://www.coleman.com/youth.

ALPS - ALPS manufactures quality camping gear through their Scout Direct program under its own name and under contract to suppliers such as Browning and Cedar Ridge. They offer a discount of 45% off their retail price to established scout troops. This is a very kind offer, and I've been using their Mystique 1.5 tent for years, use their tough and soft Browning XL air pad to sleep very comfortably when car camping, and after a particularly frigid night, bought their -20 bag and sleep like a big giant happy baby whenever it's cold. Once you get on their mailing list, they will also send you occasional offers of display items that were used by their salesmen that are even more heavily discounted. Go to http://www.scoutdirect.com/scout/program for info on how to sign up.

In 2008, the Insane Scouter blog listed a number of outdoor big box retailers that offer a discount to Boy Scout leaders upon display of a Scout Leader Identification Card at the check-out counter (usually 10%). http://insanescouter.org/p/4990/28/Discounts_to_Scouts.html Please be polite and courteous when asking if they still offer such a discount. I've received a discount at Sportsman's Warehouse, I'm not sure how many others continue to give a discount, but the listed ones include Bass Pro Shop, Gander Mountain, Cabela's, Next Adventure, Blueridge Mountain Sports, Eastern Mountain Sports, and REI.

Other retail businesses:

Great Outdoor Provision Company (North Carolina) offers discounts of 10 - 25%: http://greatoutdoorprovision.com/about-us/we-support/scouting-program/

Appalachian Outfitters (Ohio) offers a 10% discount, 15% if preparing for Philmont. http://www.appalachianoutfitters.com

Dick's Sporting Goods (nationwide) offer a 10% discount on camping gear if you show your Scout ID.

Some outdoor equipment discounts that are not offered to Scouters specifically, but which many of you will qualify for:

http://www.promotive.com aggregates several hundred businesses that offer hefty discounts (averaging about 45%) for camping gear, sports gear, sunglasses, knives, tents, boots, bicycling gear, police/military tactical gear, sports supplements, etc. You sign up as a member of different groups, which include military (active and veterans), government, corporate employees, members of organizations (not Scouts - maybe someone at BSA headquarters should make a request), etc. Check the site to see if you qualify for any groups (the more groups you are accepted for, the more businesses you can purchase from). If you are a military veteran, you can email them a redacted copy of your DD-214. If you are a government employee, providing them a government email that they will confirm will suffice. I bought a winter backpacking tent from Big Agnes for about 50% off through this service. Most of the businesses put limits on the number of items you can purchase a year to reduce potential abuse of the service.

OutdoorProLink does a similar service as Promotive with about 80 companies' prodeals: http://www.outdoorprolink.com for outdoor industry professionals. You can see if you fall in to one of their categories here: https://www.outdoorprolink.com/apply.aspx?

Mountain Hardwear produces quality jackets and outerwear, sleeping bags, tents, and packs. They offer a Pro-deal (about 40%) for "outdoor professionals," that includes government and military employees, teachers, resort employees, professional guides, resort employees, SAR, and outdoor supply company employees. See https://www.mountainhardwear.com/pro-signup to apply.

Keen Footwear's pro-deal specifically excludes large groups or those with a tax-exempt status, but if you are an outdoor industry professional, you can apply at https://pro.keenfootwear.com/pro/

Patagonia offers a pro-deal discount to a number of professional categories, see here: http://www.patagonia.com/us/patagonia.go?assetid=81361

Arc'teryx offers a pro-deal discount to the professional categories listed here: http://www.arcteryx.com/Pro-Purchase.aspx?EN. If you are an outdoor industry professional (not a retail employee), you can apply here: http://pro.arcteryx.com/Industry-Partners.asp

Hope all this is helpful.

I think it would be a real draw to offer Wilderness First Aid certification to the adult leaders during summer camp.

jblake47: "Then I don't spend any time worrying about what might happen because so far it never has."

A wise and prudent policy that should be the guideline for everyone involved in risk mitigation.

( j/k - in context, your statement makes sense.)