Marty_Doyle

Director of Finance for an academic(medical college) physician group of over 650 doctors in all specialties in New York City, in the same institution for over 22 years.

Before that managed a restaurant, worked in retail sales, bartender, waiter, house painter.

One thing our Council does is split the training into two sessions on a week night some months and hold them together opn a Saturday in other months.

The split sessions - one night NLE, and the following week another night CSLST - makes it easier to get trained in the next position one graduates to. New Leader Essentials is "eternal", but one is supposed to go to separate training for Tiger, Cub , Webelos, etc Leader position as you move up.

Getting adults or leaders to go at noon on a Saturday is not as appealing (fdor the second half of the training covering CSLST).

And in both the Den Leader anbd Webelos Den Leader sessions I attended, the training was mixed with other leader training, since there was only three or four attendees. Cubmaster specific training next month will probably be the same.

The DE has told the training staff they have to train even if only one pupil shows.

One of the responses to this will be that the overwhelming majority of Boys Scouts currently come up from Cub Scouts (I think I heard 90% at University of Scouting), and that a less than stellar percentage of Cub Scouts (less than 50%) move on to Boy Scouts. (Not to even address the first year retention issue). So, the feeling at the district/council/national level is "We already have these boys in the start of the program (Cub Scouts), let's work on them to stay in Scouting."

There is logic in this.

But, there is the "coolness" aspect that is not being emphasized enough, and which is blurred somewhat by the changes in the Webelos program.

The real answer is "Program". If the Boy Scout troop has it, and the Cub Scouts can see it, they will move up and stay.

But, most second year Webelos have been in Scouting five years already, and you have to sell them on Scouting with some "beef" to get them to think about another five to six years.

Our den of seven first year Webelos Scouts wear their complete uniform (includung most with socks and pants!) to every den meeting, every pack meeting and every outing, with pride. Partially because the current Cubmaster inspects uniforms at the start of every pack meeting, and announces the "winners" of best uniformed den after inspection (we are five for five). Partially because both lden leaders are correctly uniformed. And mainly, because to a certain degree, the boys who do not want to be Scouts have self-selected out by this time. Most of the boys still in our den are "over-achiveres", like competeing internally for activity badges and patches, want to go camping and hiking, and say they want to go on to Boy Scouting. (And also all compete in the city's baseball, basketball, and soccer leagues. And most are altar boys/acolytes at their house of worship. And some take music lessons. Et cetera)

No advertising is necessary for these guys.

But, in the four years my son has been in Cub Scouting, there have been 13 or so boys who have dropped out of Cub Scouts for various reasons. Those boys will probably never think about Boy Scouts. Not to mention the twenty or so boys in my son's grade who have never been in Cub Scouts at all.

As Cubmaster, I need to try and capture more of these boys and keep them connected until it's time to connect with Boy Scouts. But my son isn't going into Boy Scouts because of any advertising. He's going because he has bought into the idea and ideals of Scouting (even though he doesn't really know it), along with a bunch of his closest buddies. And, if for some reason, in the next year, one or two of the alpha males in my den decides that Boy Scouts are nerdy, ubcool, ad whatever politically correct perjorative teenaged term you want, then it is possible that all of them will not move up.

The only thing that can really combat this is one on one interactions with Boy Scout troops. That's what hooks the ten and eleven year olds. Boy led troops, patrols with cool names, real camping (without parents), cooking over a fire, long hikes in the real woods, mountain climbing, rapelling, white water rafting, Eagle Scouts, sleepover camp without mom and day, Klondike Derbies, campfires, axes, knives, rope bridges. All that Rockwell/Baden-Powell stuff. That's the "beef".

And if your local Troops can't show it, any advertising won't help.

And, if the boy ios hooked by this, he will not be embarassed to be seen in uniform, because he knows it is cool. Especially when his three or four cl;osest frinds are there, mentally and ohysically, with him. Evertyone else is wrong. (A typical eleven or twelve year old boy's mindset).

In spit of the fact that this thread was about info on the Crime Prevention Award.....

All of the seven Webelos in our den earned the US Heritage award last November. We worked on it in conjunction with the Citizen activity badge.

We only got the boys the patch (at $3 a piece), which we treated as a temporary patch. I think it used to say that on the website.

The boys all loved the patch, which is actually well done. The most difficult part of the award was figuring out the original thirteen colonies (which my son got from his commerative state quarter display)and writing a short story. Nine year olds pretty much all dislike having to write stuff.

Congratualtions!!!

I'll try and hide my envy. I do not start Wood Badge until August.

Again, well done!

Marty

In our city, at each elementary school, the children recite the Pledge of Allegiance at the start of each school day. And each school has added a couple of sentences at the end of the "official" pledge (which in White Plains includes "under God") about diversity, respect, tolerance, et cetera. We must be PC. Each school's addendum is slightly different. There are five elementary schools, but only three packs, so each Pack has boys from every school. So, of course, at every Pack meeting (and probably every den meeting), there is this confusion at the end of the Pledge as the parents and leaders finish and the boys continue with differing endings. Everyone continues to stand at attention, saluting or with their hands over their hearts. No one seems to know how to stop the boys. I bite my tongue....

My son insists that his school's version is the real Pledge.

One doesn't really have to have seen the badly acted, preachy, low-budget/independant, message movie to realize that this is not a Vespers appropriate tune.

The lyrics talk about anger, greed, jealousy, hate, war, massacre and, I guess, disappointment when the treasure is revealed to be "only" a message about "peace on earth". Where are the Scouting values and ideals in there?

Billyjack the movie? Everytime Billy gets angry, he resorts to violence, ultimately murdering the "bad guy", for which he is arrested (and driven away to the song "One Tin Soldier"). Again, not very Scout-like.

Of course, back in the early seventies, I loved it, especially when it compared Hitler to Nixon's cabinet.

But that was probably as much to annoy my Republican father as anything else. I wonder what tortures my Cub Scout son will put me through?

On another list, I heard a rumor that the Crime Prevention Patch had been discontinued a year ago. (of course, these things are all overheard by someone's friend). Anyone else hear this?

We have had our WEBELOS den complete Citizen and Family Member ABs "out of sequence", had a talk by a NYPD detective on Internet safety and are making 30 mousepads with internet safety rules for the local school (the PTA is our CO). I may need to switch, or find an alternate special patch....

One Hour -

Which fume are you excluding - Aclohol, gasoline or perfume?

Thanks for all the great advice and words of encouragement. I will let you know how things turn out.....

Thank you, Imascouter, for re-posting this as a separate thread.

I guess that the following information might expand the discussion.

Since I posed the first question, about changing a pack's culture and improving pack meetings to incorporate awards and fun, I have learned the following:

* I am assuming the Cubmaster (CM) position since the current CM is moving up to Scouts with his son. It turns out that the only Assistant Cubmaster (ACM) and Committee Chairperson (CC) are also leaving.

* The COR has no relationship with our CO (the school PTA), but that is okay since he never attends committee meetings.

* The balance of the pack committee is the current CM's wife (who is moving on too) and a retired former Cubmaster, who has never attended meetings either. So essentailly, there is no more committee.

* None of the other den leaders are trained beyond YP.

* Some of the other den leaders do not want to change anything, because the current way is the only way they know.

* The CM and ACM are moving up in April/May and the committee chair is already gone, so could I plan the activities for the pack for June, July and August?

* The pack has not earned a quality unit award in three years, mainly due to the training issue.

* We haven't been involved in any district fundraisers in over three years (I can't wait to see the financials).

* We haven't been involved in any district events for most of the past three years (the district training people keep asking me what pack I'm from).

* No one is BALOO trained except me, but that is okay, since our pack doesn't file Tour Permits.

* No one has filled out medical forms in over two years. Our parents were suprised when we asked them to fill 'em out.

* Whatever paperwork requirements exist, the CM and CC got by with the bare minimum because it was just them doing everything.

I have already taken or am signed up for YP, New Leader Essentials, Postition Specific for both Webelos Leader and Cubmaster, BALOO, Webelos Outdoor, and University of Scouting. I attend all district roundtables (all of which the current CM suggested).

I am contemplating Wood Badge this summer. I have bought pretty much every publication related to Cub Scouts (and some Boy Scout material)that the Council Scout Shop has. I'm on two list serves for Cub Scouts, and visit this site, Cybercubber and USScoutingProject regularly.

I essentially get to start completely over with this pack.

The two co-presidents of the PTA have sons in my den. And they are looking for a suitable COR for me.

I have a couple of parents of boys in my den who will volunteer for pretty much anything to help the pack.

My short term problems:

What happens next year, if I use the then senior Webelos parents to fill the gaps, when our sons move up?

How do I change things fairly drastically without alienating other volunteer leaders, parents and boys?

How do I recruit more adults to work with the pack?

How do I do this without alientating supporters of the current CM, who for all of his faults, held everything together for two years?

Any and all advice greatly appreciated. I feel that I have to start doing things now, because iit will be June before I realize it.

I am currently a Webelos den leader, and have volunteered to be Cubmaster next year. This is one of the problems in our pack. To date, we have had four pack meetings, and there is no "real" meeting in January (PWD)or February (B&G).

So far, only six Scouts (out of 55 scouts in the pack)have gotten an award - Bobcat. No other Scouts have been given awards, except our den of Webelos I. They have gotten loops, patches, pins and Activity Badges, at almost every meeting. The current CM doesn't like to give out awards because they take up too much time.

Pack meetings are usually: uniform inspection, announcements, guest speaker,and then game.

No skits, no songs, and only rarely awards.

The other Webelos den leader and I make it a point to give out something to the boys at each pack meeting, and put on a skit related to the monthly theme when we do it (one month, we dressed as cowboys and gave out huge sheriff badges with the awards taped on, the next month we dressed as Eskimos and had their awards on oversized snowflakes - being a Cub Scout leader means being unafraid to look silly). But we are a distinct minority.

Shouldn't Wolves, Bears and Tigers be earning something during the early month's?

How does one change a pack's "culture"? Any thoughts?

As a new Cubmaster,looking for reasons to get leaders to wear uniforms, and then hopefully Scouts, I think I have found my "speech". Any objection to borrowing with attribution?

What do you think you forgot?

Very impressive.

Check on EBAY, under Boy Scout spoof patches. There is a vender, Ric Hall, who uses the name OLDTIMES40, who sells a 3 1/2 inch round patch that sounds like what you are looking for, usually for around $3.50.