ScoutMomTex

Not super happy with the way expenses are handled in our Troop..I suspect there is a large balance as well.  More transparency would be good, and if movie is to be saved for big purchases, I think everyone should know that. We do a BIG fundraiser every year, and from what I can tell, Scouts still pay out of pocket for most everything other than equipment.  I think after selling $210 in tickets for our fundraiser, they get $1 from every $6 ticket put into their account for camping.  Similar ratio for silent auction items they donate.  I'd have to see the financials to make a better judgment, but on the face of it, I'd have to guess they have quite a big balance

It's very possible to be "unfair" to both sides in a given dispute. I suspect that people are calling "unfair" because this most recent decision was sprung on them without warning and after they were promised that it wouldn't happen.

Yes, and after Packs and Troops were organized based upon that promise.  Now, less than a month before the program begins after summer break, and recruiting starts very shortly, functional units are being disrupted and potentially divided by the new rules.  

Moving forward, for new members starting out now, one knows what one is signing up for;..but existing packs and troops who are now being told if they want to follow their religious convictions, they can find a pack that is more aligned...whole packs and troops can be completely divided, when previously their only concern was the new Cub Scouting program.  Well, now it's how many of our den leaders will stay, and how do we move forward?  Should dens stay together with their friends and remain a unit (regardless of their opinion on the leadership change), or should the group be divided on this issue? 

A little transparency would have gone a long way.

The method by which BSA made the change, and the stealth in which it did it, has done a disservice to many BSA families.

Historically, in my area at least, Packs and to a lesser extent, Troops, have been organized by geography, not denomination. You go to XYZ Elementary..your Pack is down the road at ABC Church.  You don't attend ABC Church or agree with all of it's beliefs?  Fine, no problem, this is still your Pack.

Now BSA is saying that members have the choice to affiliate with a unit aligned with their own family's beliefs.

But, the parents whose children are existing members (and possibly leaders) of packs chartered by the more liberal churches, along with all those civic organizations, have been thrown under the bus if their views are more conservative (or if only a portion of their unit's members are more conservative), as their well-functioning units have been divided.

The way it was handled is so disruptive and unfair to the existing membership base, much of which could have been avoided with more transparency and more notice.

I don't think you are overthinking things.

I have many concerns as well, ours is a Pack primarily for boys from a particular elementary school, which happens to be chartered by a church that would be less likely to prohibit homosexual leaders. The parents are not members of the charter org.

I see any changes to policy would be a problem for many of the parents in the pack, including leadership. It could be very divisive if the charter organization does not feel comfortable prohibiting.

I'd like to know when this February meeting is?

I'd like to be concentrating on my pack's Blue & Gold, not THIS. I don't appreciate it being dropped on us like this, even though it's not a done deal yet. The last policy in July seemed to make it clear that this was off the table for several years.

This will be end up being very divisive for our pack, and we will lose a lot of families, although I think they would move to other CO's who would maintain the status quo.

I'd like to know when this February meeting is?

I'd like to be concentrating on my pack's Blue & Gold, not THIS. I don't appreciate it being dropped on us like this, even though it's not a done deal yet. The last policy in July seemed to make it clear that this was off the table for several years.

This will be end up being very divisive for our pack, and we will lose a lot of families, although I think they would move to other CO's who would maintain the status quo.

"Umm, where are there "toy anythings" at a scout function? Really, I can see a hard "No Toys" rule for Cub Scouts, or at camp "No toys out of your tent", for those with security issues. Don't they have enough distractions with the sticks, rocks, and other great outdoor stuff? "

We actually think it's necessary to ban all toys at a weekend campout? I'm totally behind the necessary ban of toy guns and the like, and can understand the necessity. Also, a pack-wide ban on electronics for the Scouts at a campout. But we feel the necessity to ban toys? I think that's a good way to show the parents in our pack that the leaders have gone completely overboard in their need to control. There are way to many rules put out by BSA already, I don't think we need to go out of our way to ban toys...as a leader, I would have a terrible time thinking I needed to tell parents their kids couldn't have toys at a weekend long family campout.

That said, do I see tons of toys at our campouts? No, but sport equipment, frisbees, maybe board games (while the parents are cooking or weather is not great or the kids just need some quiet time). And if the odd boy has an action figure in his pocket, who cares?

Well, I think my Webelos 1 have settled on a Patrol name...Thunderbirds. 2nd choice was Komodo Dragons, but I think Thunderbirds has a much nicer ring!

Any ideas on a good den yell?

Well, my son is not a Boy Scout yet, so my opinion is not from experience.

I'd not be a fan of the boys eating Pop Tarts for breakfast, but I also don't see anything wrong with a convenient breakfast if it a little more healthy, especially on the day they are going home. Oatmeal or grits (we're from the South), a banana, and some oj should be fine, if that's what the patrol prefers. I can understand them being excited about the activities for the day and putting their energy into other areas where breakfast is concerned.

Putting 30 minutes of prep in the night before, as someone suggested, is not something I would care to do after camping/setting up camp..I'm usually pretty darn tired at the end of the day, and my family the same. To each his own, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with a quick breakfast, if it provides enough fuel.

Definitely encouraging some ingenuity for dinner would be what I would stress...boys should have a huge appetite at the end of the day (unless it's summertime in Texas, and then it may be just too doggone hot!)

You know, if you didn't feel comfortable, then obviously you shouldn't do it.

But I think that familes that are in Cub scouts should be able to camp on their own time with whomever they choose.

I understand if you wouldn't feel comfortable if there were BB guns involved and some of the kids were Scouts in your Pack. I wouldn't feel particularly care for BB guns to be part of my camping experience outside of Scouting.

But I'm a den leader and our neighbors are our friends...we go camping together in rv's, and I am in charge of my kids, they are in charge of theirs. We don't have to do a "buddy system" or follow any other BSA rules. Why should we?

I was just in charge of a summer swimming Cub Scout event..it was exhausting to be counting buddy pairs for an hour and a half. If I go swimming with my family and another family that happen to be Scouts (even in my den) and we go swimming, we certainly plan to be safe, but I'm not standing outside the water supervising, I'm enjoying the activity with my family. We could go tubing in a river or anything that wouldn't be appropriate for a Cub Scout event. I can have a drink with my dinner if I choose. I don't see why I can't do it with another family or even two whose kids happen to be in Scouts...they also happen to be in school together, may be our neighbors, etc.

I guess I understand if it is your whole den or Pack and their families being invited and planning trips that it would feel like Scouts, but I just don't think that you have to limit your friendship and leisure activities to families that are not involved with Scouting.

This may not be the case in every situation, but I think we need to be aware that at least part of the problem is usually that the leaders do not get to focus on or correct their children in the same way other, less-involved parents do. Also, that these kids are generally tagging along for longer to events..set-up and take-down and planning meetings.

So, constructively pulling the kid who is misbehaving aside and giving him something productive to do or some attention may be all that is needed.

I'll give you an example..I have two boys in Cub Scouts, my youngest is now a Wolf and oldest a Webelos. We are having a summer swim event, and I'm the chair of the event. Am working out the Safe Swim details, and it what it boils down to is that I won't be able to pay as much attention to my younger Scout as I would like (he is not a strong swimmer), and that they will likely have to be there early while I am getting everyone checked in, and will get restless. Without my husband there to be one-on-one with my non-swimmer, I couldn't make it work.

Similar things happen at other events..at campouts, I'm my older son's den leader, which means my younger son does not get the same time/attention that he often needs.

It's why I hesitate to volunteer for certain events, if I know I'm going to end up shortchanging my own kids.

When I see our Cubmaster's son acting up a bit, and the Cubmaster is engaged with the whole Pack, I try to pull him aside and help by getting him to interact with my kids or just re-directing.

Thank you for your replies. We are an existing Pack, and to date, since I've been around we have selected leaders much as you describe. Find a promising candidate or two and feel out their interest. There has always been a concensus amongst the Pack Committee, and little input from the Pack as a whole. (We always do announce that positions are opening and ask for volunteers, but that doesn't usually draw any new volunteers. Any one that wants to be involved generally already is.) Of course, the charter organization has to approve as well.

So, our new Pack Committee chair thinks it would be helpful to write Bylaws, which is fine. The selection/election process came up for discussion, and I wanted to find out if what we were doing was consistent with BSA policy and general practice.

Appreciate the input!

What is the accepted method of selecting Pack Committee and Cubmaster positions?

Is a vote (by the parents in the Pack) ever used?

Or is it always recruitment, volunteer, and then approval by Pack Committe and eventually COR?

Thanks,

We do share a CO, but we have separate COR's for the Troop and Pack, so not really a moot issue in that regard. Although any interaction I do might be a chance to learn more about the CO's position (I think they are basically pretty hands off) and the Troop in general.

I do have some time to work out these issues, it just came to mind when all the discussion about female leaders in general was re=opened at the same time I was mentally preparing for the transition to Webelos.

as to den chiefs, we very recently acquired a den chief, and he has already been a great help. He is 15, and a great role model for the boys. I look forward to having his help next year, and to giving him the opportunity to grow as a leader.

we do have two fathers who haven't been interested in official den leader status for a variety of reasons, but I do call upon them as they are able. one led with our pocket knife meeting last week, and I definitely plan to continue to reach out for their assistance.

will definitely inquire as to the protocol as to interacting with Troops.

No one has officially done anything, my boys are still Bears. I'm just learning about the upcoming Webelo rank and introducing the boys to Boy Scout Troops is part of that. since we share a cCO and in the past years Webelos from our pack have camped with them, it is reasonable to expect this is something that will come up, correct?

I assume that all the local Packs have some sort of Troop /Webelo liaison? That's one of the many things I have to learn.

No, it is not an LDS troop, I think it just the preference of the long-term Troop Leader.

Same CO as my Pack. As a matter of fact, I may become the COR for the Pack soon. So I would like to facilitate relations between the Troop and Pack.

Historically, in the three years I've been around, about half of our Scouts have gone to this Trooop associated with our CO. About 1/2 have gone to a neighboring Troop, and from what I've heard from other parents, the stance on women has been issue at least some of the time.

Anyway, I repect the parents of the other Cub Scouts who have advanced on to Boy Scouts, some of whom have gone on to either Troop. I'd like to have an open mind and find the best fit for our boys. I think it should be each family's individual choice, there is no shame if another Troop happens to fit their son's Scout career better. I don't plan to push anyone to go one way or another, and I actually hope that the Troop at our current CO IS a good fit. But I do have reservations because of some what I've heard, and my own limited firsthand observations.

I need to have an open mind and examine myself instead of relying upon secondhand information, which is admittedly what I've done so far. Hopefully I'll be allowed the opportunity to examine and observe the organization which would like my son(s) to devote MANY of their hours away from home.

I learn about each aspect of Cubs, and now Boy Scouts, as my older son progresses. Don't know much about the Troop workings, and don't know what sort of role I may fit into, if any. I don't even know for sure if my sons will want to go beyond Cubs. But in our particular family, I am the physically active parent, my husband is older and has many health problems. So if one of us were to participate in outings on a BSA level, it would be me. Do I need to be there all the time? No, but I'm not sure how comfortable I could be if one of us could never check in on the outings. That's my long-term concern though, separate from this Webelos issue.

Basementdweller,

In response to your post, You said you didn't like me saying I saying I was going to give them a shot? I want to give them a shot, but it seems hard to introduce my Webelos den to them (at least on a Webelos campout which is important) if I'm persona non grata.

"So are planning to join the troop your son does as a leader????? if not who cares:"

I care as a Webelo leader, and I might or might not care as a parent of a Boy Scout..I have to evaluate their Troop with my son to see if it is a good fit.

"How is the quality of the program???? camp every month? SPL active running the troop? Do they have camping gear???? Patrol boxes???? Do the boys look like they are engaged and having fun????? "

That's what I'd like to find out by taking my Webelos den on a campout

"If your going to exclude this troop from your list of possibilities because they don't want a women at camp then I think your short changing the boys.....You need to look at the program thru their eyes not your own. "

I don't want to exclude the Troop from my list of possibilities at all, that's why I'm trying to figure out how to handle it as their Webelo leader. I actually think the Troop may be shortchanging the boys if they can't handle a female Webelos den leader on one campout.

"Why is the situation awkward??? Just tell the parents that the troop does not allow women on camp outs......End of story...It isn't your problem"

It is my problem right now if the Troop doesn't allow the boy's den leader to accompany them on a campout while they are still Cubs and participating as such.

NJCubScouter,

I have NOT yet directly approached the SM of the other group. I definitely need to do so, and hopefully, will have a positive outcome.

But in answer to why it's awkward, it's awkward because I am the boy's Cub Scout leader, in my role as my Webelo leasder I believe it is MY responsibility to introduce them to troops. In Webelo camping, the den leader would always be expected to be part of the campout, and at least one parent would be invited to attend for each Scout. That's Cub camping, and the boys are still Cubs. So because their den leader happens to be female, they are expected to attend a campout without a registered leader? That's awkward for me to present to my families. I also envision the Webelos campout with a Troop, right or wrong, as an opportunity for the parents to observe the Troop..telling some of my parents they can't participate with their Cubs seems wrong.

Understandably, I am just learning about Boy Scout dynamics, and hopefully, all will go smoothly.

As a spinoff on the Female BSA Leaders Discussion,

I understand that each Troop can make its own policies in this area, although BSA allows leaders of both genders.

I am female soon-to-be Webelos leader. One of the local Troops prohibits women from their camping trips.

As a Webelos leader, I understand it's my job to introduce the boys to Troops and to do some camping with them with the local troops (on specific Webelo-invited campouts). I feel it is very bad policy not to allow female Webelos leaders or parents on THESE types of camping trips, as BSA policy for Cubs seems to specify that a parent should be there for each Scout, and obviously the Scout leader should be there. It's put me in an awkward position when trying to give this Troop (which is our feeder troop) a fair shot. Their suggestion may be that one of our fathers (who does have a son in the Troop and some sort of leadership position in it) to accompany my son and the other boys whose camping partner would be a woman. But it seems very awkward for me to tell my den and their parents that we are going to plan a den campout on which I am not permitted to attend.

Anyway, I am just starting the process of learning what it is to be a Webelos leader, and I will need to address this directly with Troop leadership at some point.

But, I was just curious to get feedback from outside sources first.

Hi, welcome aboard!

I'm also a new member..I think I've been reading for close to 2 years, but could never get in. Not sure how much I'll post, as I'm so used to the read-only mode.

Cub Bear Leader/Pack Secretary (I know, not supposed to have two roles, but it is what it is)