johnsned

I really appreciate all of the points of view expressed here. I have learned a lot about what people think about this issue.

Often when this issue is brought up during the Wood Badge course it is done poorly. The course I am on staff for makes it clear in the application that there will be separate sleeping areas for men and women, and we let the potential participant know that this particular course has this regulation and that other council sponsored courses do not, so they can decide if they are comfortable or not. The majority of the participants that attend that course wish to have this regulation in place. We encourage the patrols that have women to use their campsite for sleep only to try to limit the exclusion the female participant might feel.

Being a man it is difficult for me to put my self in the place of women and know how it makes them feel to have to stay in a separate campsite.

This is a difficult issue. No easy answer. To say that one solution fits all is clearly not the case. However this issue needs to be handled with respect to the feeling of the person affected.

One thing I wish to make clear is that this rule isn't implemented because people don't trust themselves, or they feel weak in their convictions, or they feel that if women sleep in a tent within close proximity they will lose control. None of this is the case, and to say so offends the people who feel it important to follow this practice. Many of the groups that observe this practice of separate sleeping areas do so because of their religious practice.

We believe that God has set specific boundaries for us that we should not cross. These boundaries are there to protect us, granted if one or two are ignored no big deal, the sky wont fall and the world wont end.

So this has nothing to do with anyones lack of ability to control themselves, but their faith in God and willingness to follow what they believe to be the principles of God and not the values of contemporary society.

I respect those how have different opinions, I dont look down on them or think they have less faith in God, and I didnt imply that, people simply observe their faith differently. I can see how some would make the argument that this is oppressive to some. Perhaps that has to do with the way the issue is handled. I guess there are conflicting values and if either side gets their way the other can claim to be discriminated against. What is the right answer? I think that what ever the decision is it will be questioned and criticized, and someone can argue foul. I think we should take advantage of this forum to understand why this practice occurs and understand the differing points of view as opposed to saying what is right and wrong.

(I apologize for the long post)(This message has been edited by johnsned)(This message has been edited by johnsned)

This is getting ridiculous.

Providing separate sleeping areas for Men and Women for the 6-7 hours you sleep, is in NO WAY the same as segregating Blacks and Whites. The reasons and motivation is completly different. It is insulting that you would even try to equate the two.

OK now would you please tell me how sleeping in the same campsite helps "Team Building"?

Hello bmchugh,

I don't want this to become a debate I understand you have strong feelings about this issue. I wrote my response from my experience and understanding. Your opinion comes from yours and is also valid.

I would like to know how does sleeping in a tent 5 feet away have to do with team building? Why is it different than being 50 feet away?

I am going to be on staff for my third year, I am going to be in charge of the "Facilities and Arrangements". We have this issue in our course. Our course has separate sleeping areas for men and women. I would like to understand. For me it doesn't seem like a big deal, but I am not as affected as you are. So I would like to gain some understanding.

Is it that you were asked or maybe told to go to a separate area or was actually being in the separate area or both. While I don't see the problem like you do, I would like to get a better understanding so I can deal with this better.

There are many religious groups that have express charge that married persons cannot attend an overnight trip/training course with persons of the opposite sex without their spouse. BSA National working with those groups wanting to make a way for those groups to be able to attend suggested said that a council could make separate sleeping areas a rule for their Wood Badge Courses. The BSA policy calls for separate facilities. Is a tent a facility? A campsite? Since there is no agreement on that, National came up with this option to settle the argument, so that people wouldnt argue the Separate Facilities

They have many justifications for their beliefs that we might not agree with but we all uphold the scout oath, which state that we promise to do our duty to God. Some groups believe that this is part of their duty. It might seem trivial to some, we would asks Orthodox Jews to eat a non-kosher meal, or a Mormon to drink coffee? Even though not being able to eat a ham and cheese or drink a cup of coffee seems trivial to some.

I have been on staff on a Wood Badge Course that has separate sleeping areas for men and women. I challenge any one to tell me how that made a material difference. If sleeping in the same campsite is a "bonding" activity then I think that feeds the argument that it might not be appropriate.

Many believe it is better to avoid temptation than to fight it.

We teach infant children to speak by repetition, by encouragement, they soon realize the noises I make make Mommy and Daddy very happy, they pick me up and hug me, they laugh. Communication is a huge accomplishment met with tons of praise.

Under the constant assault of I want and what is that and the infamous why, when talking is an everyday occurrence, many parents treat communication as a annoyance or nuisance. And what was met with praise and attention is now met with Dont bother me now, or the familiar wait a minute which translated means, please go a way and I hope the forget to come back. Is it any wonder that adolescents dont communicate well? Or when we solicit their opinions or ideas they dont want share them?

I think Wood Badge showed me the need to break some very bad habits, and taught me that if I want the boys to feel I value their opinion I need to work on their trust, I need to help them overcome the impression that they are really a nuisance to me and other adults, that I must be consistent in that effort and like I got my boys to talk when they were infants, praise and encouragement, help and support, but let them talk.

They know when we dont care, but it is hard form them to believe it when we do.

Estimado Raul,

I thought you might be interested in this. I am on staff as Assistant Course Director for a Wood Badge Course in Los Angeles. I am a Unit Commisioner that works with 32 Spanish Speaking Units in the Los Angeles/San Fernando Valley area. We have recruited a lot with the Spanish speaking Scout leaders. We have about %60 of the particpants are Latinos. Some of them speak perfect English and some strugle a little. We the staff have been trying to translate as much as possible into Spanish. We are hoping to have an all Spanish Wood Badge in two years.

I would be interested in seeing any Wood Badge Material from Mexico you can send me.

johnsned@mail.com

I am an assistant Course Director for a Southern California council and the rule is here that once you finished being Course Director you are effectively retired from Wood Badge. The reason is according to the New Wood Badge Administrative guide is to promote new Scouters to work on Wood Badge, that staff shouldn't be a clique, they same staff each year. Each course staff should consist of 1/3 new staffers. This will allow more Scouters to have the opportunity to be on staff.

I guess the thinking is more people that go through Wood Badge the better it is for Scouting and the more people that serve on Wood Badge staff makes it that much better for Scouting.

I was asked to be Scoutmaster over a small troop that was trying to resurrect their program; I hadn't been trained at all. I started asking around for training and courses were either 6 to 12 months away, so when I first became Scoutmaster it was like walking around in the dark. I watched every video I could get my hands on, bought and read the training manuals.

Then started to get the actual training. Scoutmaster fundamentals, Outdoor Leader, Wood Badge, High Adventure ect... Now I am on the District Training Staff. Along with New Leader Essentials I have given the NEW Position Specific trainings for Boy Scout Scoutmaster Specific, Varsity Varsity Coach Specific, Intro to Outdoor Leaders and Baloo. Taking training is great I have found that teaching has been the more help than simply taking the training.. Now in our District we offer every training session needed to qualify for the Trained Patch every 4 months.

I am an assistant Course Director for a Southern California council and the rule is here that once you finished being Course Director you are effectively retired from Wood Badge. The reason is according to the New Wood Badge Administrative guide is to promote new Scouters to work on Wood Badge, that staff shouldn't be a clique, they same staff each year. Each course staff should consist of 1/3 new staffers. This will allow more Scouters to have the opportunity to be on staff.

I guess the thinking is more people that go through Wood Badge the better it is for Scouting and the more people that serve on Wood Badge staff makes it that much better for Scouting.

In many parks in California, bear canisters are a requirement to obtain a camping permit. Yosemite and the John Muir Wilderness area are the most strict.

True they are a pain in the neck, add extra wieght don't hold much etc... But I haven't heard of one losing to a bear, maybe losing your food is more of a pain.

When I started working with my current troop 1 or 2 of the boys wore their uniforms on a consistant basis. What worked for me was, I would bring in snacks or sodas to the troop meeting to give to the boys after the meeting. Only the boys in uniform could have some. I also got some of the parents to watch the Fast Start video, seeing the troop in there uniforms made an impression on them. Now only the newest boys don't wear there uniforms, and I have not needed to keep suppling treats to those that comply.

This may not work for you, you know your boys. Give them an insentive, challange the patrols, make it a competition, and don't be above a good bribe.

The tail extending over the seem indicates that you have reached the top of the tooth of time. To locate the seem coming up from your chest pockect it is the first seem on the shoulder.

I am a scouter in Los Angeles, whenever we have activities we use our uniforms, I have never had a problem. I think that the Scout uniform is more of a proctection than anything. It distiguishes the group, allows you as a leader to quickly identify your troop, many times people are suspiscous of a large group of boys, but when they see the uniform they know these boys are different and lastly I think the boys act different when they are wearing there uniform.

This is just my experience.

-John